Register here

Author Topic: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?  (Read 756 times)

Offline Nico

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 260
Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« on: December 07, 2018, 04:47:30 am »
Some time ago, it must have been in 2013-2014, I was able to see in a movie (maybe on YouTube) a guerrilla with the typical Chitral cap used by ethnic Afghans Pashtun, equipped with a weapon system that looked like a German Fliegerfaust / Luftfaust and the militian who used it pointed it upwards. The video commentary made it clear that it was an anti-helicopter weapon.
I thought it could be the TsNI Mashinostroeniya Kolos (spike), ie the USSR copy of the 20 mm German anti-aircraft rocket launcher HASAG Fliegerfaust B Luftfaust, developed in Germany at 1944 forwarded.
I do not know how much the Soviet weapon was similar to the German one or if it came into service: there was talk of the possible supply to Vietcong and North Vietnam around 1964-1968 but it is difficult to understand how these weapons could have ended up in Afghanistan and hand to the mujaheddyn.
At the time I did not think about looking for the YouTube movie and taking a screenshot. Did any of you see it?
Nico

Offline Grzesio

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 166
    • Kaboom!
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2018, 06:26:29 am »
Quote
I do not know how much the Soviet weapon was similar to the German one or if it came into service: there was talk of the possible supply to Vietcong and North Vietnam around 1964-1968 but it is difficult to understand how these weapons could have ended up in Afghanistan and hand to the mujaheddyn.
This Soviet launcher Kolos (spelled as"kowos". i.e. ear of grain) was generally tubular in shape, with pistol grips and detachable rear part with a nozzle, acting as a loader. It weighted 9.2 kg and fired 7 spin stabilized 30 mm rockets NRS-30, reaching 560 m/s velocity, while the range was 500 and 2000 m against air and surface targets respectively.
Construction of Kolos was ordered by the defense ministry in June 1966 only, trials were conducted from June 1967 to May 1968 with positive results, but the weapon was never put into service nor production because the Strela 2 was accepted at the same time. So I dont's believe, anyone could use the actual Kolos launchers anywhere now.




« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 06:33:37 am by Grzesio »

Offline Nico

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 260
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2018, 09:37:40 am »
Thanks Grzesio,
for the information and for the photo of the Kolos, that I had never seen before. If the memory does not betray me, what I saw in the hands of the mujaheddyn, however, seems to be the German version ... I wonder how it could have arrived in Afghanistan. Maybe WW II war booty ended up clandestine streets in the hands of Afghan insugents?
Thanks again

Nico

Offline Grey Havoc

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 8032
  • The path not taken.
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2018, 10:04:17 am »
Haven't found much more on the Kolos so far. As Grzesio has noted, it was initially developed during the late 1960s (66-68) as a mass produced low cost anti-aircraft weapon for pro-soviet guerrilla and revolutionary organisations, in particular the Viet Cong. Despite successful trials, it was then decided to supply such groups with the SA-7 instead (arguably not the best of ideas given the rather poor performance of early SA-7s, not even mentioning the cost). There is some speculation though that the Kolos was subsequently revived at least briefly as a cheap anti-helicopter weapon for the Red Army, for issue to rear echelon and support units (the Soviets were pretty concerned by the potential of the U.S. Air Cavalry at the time).

If the Kolos did see some production & usage as such, it is quite possible that during the Khan regime that the Afghan army received (surplus?) examples of the Kolos as part of Soviet military aid packages.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 10:29:19 am by Grey Havoc »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Dilandu

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • I really should change my personal text
    • fonzeppelin.livejournal.com
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 09:58:25 am »
Haven't found much more on the Kolos so far. As Grzesio has noted, it was initially developed during the late 1960s (66-68) as a mass produced low cost anti-aircraft weapon for pro-soviet guerrilla and revolutionary organisations, in particular the Viet Cong. Despite successful trials, it was then decided to supply such groups with the SA-7 instead (arguably not the best of ideas given the rather poor performance of early SA-7s, not even mentioning the cost). There is some speculation though that the Kolos was subsequently revived at least briefly as a cheap anti-helicopter weapon for the Red Army, for issue to rear echelon and support units (the Soviets were pretty concerned by the potential of the U.S. Air Cavalry at the time).

If the Kolos did see some production & usage as such, it is quite possible that during the Khan regime that the Afghan army received (surplus?) examples of the Kolos as part of Soviet military aid packages.

As far as I managed to find, there were no mass production of either "Kolos" or "Snop" systems - nothing except some experimental units. Couldn't the Afghan thing be just some locally-build device, maybe inspired

Offline Grey Havoc

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 8032
  • The path not taken.
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 03:57:44 am »
Possible, but I doubt it somehow. In the immediate aftermath of the Soviet takeover, the various resistance groups were able to get plenty of weaponry, including heavy weapons from various arms depots and ammo dumps as the Afghan army mostly disintegrated through purges, resignations, desertions and mutiny. There was no real need for them to improvise weapons during this early period, especially in the time before the Red Army brought in it's gunships in force (vehicles were a somewhat different story). Even the famed gunsmiths on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border didn't really get into the production of heavier weaponry until the late 1980s. This doesn't of course rule out the other possibility of a few WWII era Fliegerfausts somehow managing to make it to Afghanistan via the black market (Soviet war booty stolen out of a warehouse for example). For the moment though my money is still on the Kolos as our mystery weapon.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:36:53 am by Grey Havoc »
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline TsrJoe

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 299
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 09:51:18 am »
theres a similar weapon, abiet in mockup form used by Carrie Fisher in the Blues Brothers ;)
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

IPMS (UK) 'Project Cancelled' SIG. co,co-ordinator
IPMS (UK) 'TSR-2', 'Cold War' & 'What-if' SIG. Member

Offline Dilandu

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • I really should change my personal text
    • fonzeppelin.livejournal.com
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2018, 12:58:51 am »
Possible, but I doubt it somehow. In the immediate aftermath of the Soviet takeover, the various resistance groups were able to get plenty of weaponry, including heavy weapons from various arms depots and ammo dumps as the Afghan army mostly disintegrated through purges, resignations, desertions and mutiny. There was no real need for them to improvise weapons during this early period, especially in the time before the Red Army brought in it's gunships in force (vehicles were a somewhat different story). Even the famed gunsmiths on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border didn't really get into the production of heavier weaponry until the late 1980s. This doesn't of course rule out the other possibility of a few WWII era Fliegerfausts somehow managing to make it to Afghanistan via the black market (Soviet war booty stolen out of a warehouse for example). For the moment though my money is still on the Kolos as our mystery weapon.

Well, I must point out that MANPAD weren't the Afghan army priority during the Soviet takeover era, and most of Soviet-made MANPAD's used by Mujahiddeen were smuggled from Arab countries. Considering the lack of need for MANPAD's since USSR withdrawal, and probably not top-class maintenance, it is highly possible that most of available systems just degraded below working conditions, forcing Afghan insurgents to seek out improvised solutions.

P.S. If we have a photo in question, it would be simpler to make assumption... Could anyone find it?

Offline Pioneer

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1559
  • Seek out and close with the enemy
Re: Fliegerfaust for Mijaheddyn?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2018, 02:06:33 am »
Oh wow, never heard of the 30mm Kolos (kowos) man-portable anti-aircraft launcher!!😮
Will have to do some serious research into this system!!


Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M