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Author Topic: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement  (Read 66595 times)

Offline muttbutt

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2016, 02:47:24 pm »
I have the feeling this may just be the USAF shining on the US-Army with a "look we're doing something" so the US-A won't make a push for a fixed wing CAS aircraft themselves.

I don't think this will ever see the light of day. :-[

Offline Gildasd

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2016, 02:51:48 pm »
That was a strange discussion about guns. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious that someone had to be able to make the GAU-22/A...

Sure.  Doesn't mean it's the same company that built the GAU-8.
Or that due to improvements in materials, maybe 3 or even 1 barrel is sufficient...
I hadn't heard of any discovery of Unobtainium yet so I'm kinda thinking "no" on that front.  Besides, this has zero to do with whether or not anybody is currently building the GAU-8 so I'm not sure what your point is suppose to be.
Ceramics for one... Very good at keeping heat of the combustion out of the metal, and metals have improved a lot since the GAU etc.
Different coatings that limit the need for lubirification/maintenance or composite support. Just look a what Space X is doing with it's engines with printed titanium...
Why build a "Vintage" GAU, why not have the same or more fire power for less weight and complexity?

Offline sferrin

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2016, 03:20:50 pm »
A ceramic gun barrel?
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Gildasd

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2016, 04:36:43 pm »
A ceramic gun barrel?
Not all of it, just part of the lining where the heat, pressure and wear are the highest.

Offline TomS

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2016, 05:58:04 pm »
A ceramic gun barrel?

Ceramic liners or inserts in gun barrels are a recurring topic of research. They seem to be getting closer.


Offline sferrin

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2016, 06:50:00 pm »
Ceramics for one... Very good at keeping heat of the combustion out of the metal, and metals have improved a lot since the GAU etc.
Different coatings that limit the need for lubirification/maintenance or composite support. Just look a what Space X is doing with it's engines with printed titanium...
Why build a "Vintage" GAU, why not have the same or more fire power for less weight and complexity?

I realize "ceramics" and "3D printing" are the uber buzzwords of the day but ceramics aren't THAT good and 3D printing does nothing for improving the properties of material.  It just makes it easier to shape parts that would be difficult or impossible to cast or machine.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Online marauder2048

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2016, 07:14:16 pm »
An inductive fuze setter for a programmable burst (airburst, point detonation + delay etc) cannon round would be an interesting trade against a higher ROF or higher muzzle velocity.

Offline sferrin

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2016, 07:19:38 pm »
An inductive fuze setter for a programmable burst (airburst, point detonation + delay etc) cannon round would be an interesting trade against a higher ROF or higher muzzle velocity.

I was wondering if they could stuff a Millennium gun in the space taken by a GAU-8.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline aethertek

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2016, 07:31:38 pm »
I realize "ceramics" and "3D printing" are the uber buzzwords of the day but ceramics aren't THAT good and 3D printing does nothing for improving the properties of material.  It just makes it easier to shape parts that would be difficult or impossible to cast or machine.

Well if you don't need to be busting tanks all day & are primarily tasked with CAS maybe you could do with a hot 25 & some fancy new programmable shells.

Don't like ceramic? how about glass steel?
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-alloy-strong-nanotechnology-sintering/42648/

K~

Offline sferrin

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2016, 07:36:02 pm »
I realize "ceramics" and "3D printing" are the uber buzzwords of the day but ceramics aren't THAT good and 3D printing does nothing for improving the properties of material.  It just makes it easier to shape parts that would be difficult or impossible to cast or machine.

Well if you don't need to be busting tanks all day & are primarily tasked with CAS maybe you could do with a hot 25 & some fancy new programmable shells.

Don't like ceramic? how about glass steel?
http://www.gizmag.com/steel-alloy-strong-nanotechnology-sintering/42648/

K~

Let me know when I can order some bar stock.  Yeah. . .
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2016, 08:14:26 pm »
GD-OTS lists goalkeeper as a joint effort withThales Nederland.  As far as I Know, the actual guns are still supplied from the US.

Of course, it's very unlikely that a clean sheet CAS design developed today would carry a 30mm Gatling.  A 25mm would offer more than enough terminal effect -- actual tanks can be dealt with in many other ways.

Dont introduce such logic into a discussion about the A- 10.

Rockwell (NAA) and Boeing have all done post stealth studies into a CAS/BAI aircract that have been made public. Both were high subsonic speed flying wings with lots of fuel and big weapons bays. Loitering, hard to spot birds with great eyes able to swoop in fast and agile to hit hard and be tough enough to take anything in return. Kind of a cross  between an A-10 and an F-111.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline donnage99

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2016, 08:44:29 pm »

Rockwell (NAA) and Boeing have all done post stealth studies into a CAS/BAI aircract that have been made public. Both were high subsonic speed flying wings with lots of fuel and big weapons bays. Loitering, hard to spot birds with great eyes able to swoop in fast and agile to hit hard and be tough enough to take anything in return. Kind of a cross  between an A-10 and an F-111.

You talking about this project?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5569.0.html

Offline sferrin

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2016, 08:46:03 pm »
GD-OTS lists goalkeeper as a joint effort withThales Nederland.  As far as I Know, the actual guns are still supplied from the US.

Of course, it's very unlikely that a clean sheet CAS design developed today would carry a 30mm Gatling.  A 25mm would offer more than enough terminal effect -- actual tanks can be dealt with in many other ways.

Dont introduce such logic into a discussion about the A- 10.

Rockwell (NAA) and Boeing have all done post stealth studies into a CAS/BAI aircract that have been made public. Both were high subsonic speed flying wings with lots of fuel and big weapons bays. Loitering, hard to spot birds with great eyes able to swoop in fast and agile to hit hard and be tough enough to take anything in return. Kind of a cross  between an A-10 and an F-111.

The main mission the A-10 was designed for seems to me a bit suicidal to attempt with a gun against anybody possessing even average air defenses.  My main concern was that we'd lost the ability to produce that type of gun.
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Offline CiTrus90

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2016, 11:55:51 pm »
I have the feeling this may just be the USAF shining on the US-Army with a "look we're doing something" so the US-A won't make a push for a fixed wing CAS aircraft themselves.

I don't think this will ever see the light of day. :-[

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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: A-X all over again - USAF pushes for A-10 replacement
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2016, 12:32:41 am »
You talking about this project?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5569.0.html

Nope. Page 224 of Living in the Future. The 1982 Rockwell CAS-X based on their operational analysis of how to replace the A-10 but making it survivable and able to oprate in the Middle East.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling