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Author Topic: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter  (Read 67181 times)

Offline TinWing

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Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« on: April 28, 2006, 01:24:22 pm »
Here are two pictures of the N-102 mockup:

http://www.geocities.jp/protoplanes/image/N-102_1.jpg

[http://www.geocities.jp/protoplanes/image/N-102_2.jpg

More information will follow later.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:10:35 am by PaulMM »

Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2006, 08:11:13 am »
I'm not seeing any images when I click on these links........

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2006, 08:12:30 am »
Northrop N-102 Fang Project
Hugh W Cowin
Air Pictorial

X-Fighters
Steve Pace
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Towards the end of 1952, Northrop started work on a lightweight Mach 2 interceptor as a private venture. A two seater trainer variant was also studied. The N-102 design requirements were similar to those of contemporary Lockheed TDN CL-246. CL-246 also was submitted as an unsolicited proposal to USAF (November 1952) but its seductiveness was enough for them to invent a GOR calling for a new lightweight fighter to replace the F-100 (Weapon System 303A).
CL-246 then competed to another proposals and was selected for series production as the F-104 Starfighter.
Unfortunately, I have no info about that rival designs. It seems that Republic design was identified as Model AP-55.

According to Mr Cowin, the Fang was no submitted to WS 303A. It was simple dropped by Northop's directive Tom Jones in favour of the far cheaper N-156 by the close of 1954.

May be Evan can add some additional information...

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2006, 08:13:40 am »
N-102 pics from Air Pictorial

Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2006, 09:08:46 am »
Unfortunately, I have no info about that rival designs. It seems that Republic design was identified as Model AP-55.
I think Republic's AP-55 design was based on their XF-91 Thunderceptor, only with a solid radar nose and NACA-style flush intakes on the fuselage sides ahead of the wing.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2006, 03:55:06 pm »
Quote
I think Republic's AP-55 design was based on their XF-91 Thunderceptor, only with a solid radar nose and NACA-style flush intakes on the fuselage sides ahead of the wing.

Thanks a lot for the info Sentinel.

Estimated max speed for the Republic AP-31 (XF-91) was Mach 1,5. If AP-55 was to be a Mach 2 fighter if had to be aerodimically refined (area ruled fuselage). The powerplant would have been a single J79?

Offline Deino

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2006, 03:38:20 am »
Does anyone know this book ??? ... and in't it the N-102 in the lower drawing !?!

http://www.dataviewbooks.com/

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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2006, 06:42:26 am »
It looks like it very well could be.  That one is going to be on my "must buy" list.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2006, 10:15:34 am »
Thanks Deino ;)

I'm going to buy the book. I want to know more about the Bell jet fighter

Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2006, 10:23:05 am »
Quote
I think Republic's AP-55 design was based on their XF-91 Thunderceptor, only with a solid radar nose and NACA-style flush intakes on the fuselage sides ahead of the wing.

Thanks a lot for the info Sentinel.

Estimated max speed for the Republic AP-31 (XF-91) was Mach 1,5. If AP-55 was to be a Mach 2 fighter if had to be aerodimically refined (area ruled fuselage). The powerplant would have been a single J79?
That's what I understand, it was the first or one of the first light fighter designs to use the J79 engine. Ultimately the requirements that the N-102 was designed to meet evolved to result in Lockheed's F-104 Starfighter if I remember right.

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2006, 10:31:49 am »
Thanks again, Sentinel

An AP-31 derivative with a more powerful engine could have reach Mach 2 performance..with this data, I think I can try to produce a drawing of the hypotetical Republic AP-55

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2006, 12:13:01 pm »
I want to know more about the Bell jet fighter

The one on the cover isn't a Bell design. It was the BDR patented by Interstate Aircraft.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/bdr.html

All the patents they mention I have. The Twin Liberator is a pretty neato design but was patented by Just Some Guy, not Convair, so it stood effectively no chance of being built.

The "McDonnell design contemporary with and similar to the XP-67 Moonbat, except being of pusher configuration"  is actually a design patent for the McDonnell Model 1.
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Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2006, 11:23:40 am »
Are there any schematics, drawings, or photos showing the landing gear configuration of the N-102?

Offline TinWing

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2006, 08:00:43 am »
Are there any schematics, drawings, or photos showing the landing gear configuration of the N-102?

The N-102 mockup - in US Air Force markings - didn't have a landing gear, but the drawings indicate that the nose gear was mounted ahead of the ventral intake.  This arrangement would seem to partially obstruct airflow to the engine during takeoff and landing, but it does provide for a long and stable wheelbase - important because the N-102 Fang was also proposed for the Navy as a carrier based fighter.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2006, 11:25:35 am »
Are there any schematics, drawings, or photos showing the landing gear configuration of the N-102?

Why, yes... yes, there are.

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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2006, 11:30:33 am »
Fang patent.
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Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2006, 07:51:17 pm »
I've never heard of a V-tailed version of the Fang. Any other particulars on that design, Scott?

Gotta wonder about that ventral intake BEHIND the nose gear, though........

Offline gfi88

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 07:57:08 pm »
Just seen a unfamiliar Northrop fighter project posted on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=120308919382&Category=86954&_trksid=p3907.m29

Maybe related to N-102 project?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 04:39:33 am by flateric »

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2008, 01:27:08 am »
Thanks a lot gfi88!

It looks like a 50-60's design... ???

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 07:10:29 am »
Tailsitter?

Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 11:53:39 am »
The tail configuration is quite interesting. I'd love to see a pic from the rear. Maybe we could ask the seler for it?

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 08:01:46 pm »
It's too bad the vertical tail is broken. It's cool design, none the less.

Offline JPC

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2008, 12:46:08 pm »
N-102 :

Offline JPC

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2008, 12:47:19 pm »
and :

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2008, 01:18:08 pm »
Nice angles JPC - have any more?!

Enjoy the Day!  Mark

Offline Triton

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2010, 11:31:53 am »
Photographs of Northrop N-102 Fang mock-up and three-view drawing.

Source: http://sobchak.wordpress.com/2009/08/10/northrop-n-102-fang-il-progenitore-del-moderno-caccia-leggero/
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 02:15:14 pm by Triton »

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2010, 06:21:46 am »
Nice Triton - thanks! Mark

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 06:38:53 pm »
Greetings All -

I had the opportunity to spend two days scanning photos from my friend Gerald Balzer's collection.  I was pleasantly surprised to find a folder dealing with the N-102 Fang - more art and photos of the mock up than I could have imagined.  So, thamnks to Gerald, here's something to share with the rest of the gang....

First up, artwork!

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 06:56:05 pm »
Sweet serendipity!!!  ;D Thank you so much, Mark.

Offline starviking

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 07:24:40 pm »
Thanks Mark and thanks Gerald!

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 10:56:35 pm »
Great artwork of a cool design. I'm sure Gerald's collection holds some great photos.
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Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2012, 05:03:57 am »
As per normal you have once again outdone yourself Mark!!!!!

You have made my day  ;D


Thanks

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Pioneer
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Faithfulness and fortitude.
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Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2012, 06:27:01 am »
Thanks all - just very lucky to do this and find gold at times.

Here's a few more from Gerald's collection...

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2012, 07:14:01 am »
...and a few more...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 09:05:45 am by Mark Nankivil »

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2012, 08:59:54 am »
Proposed weapons loads....


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2012, 09:58:58 am »
Great stuff, loads of detail photos I've never seen before. Would be ideal for an article on the Fang...


The ventral intake is interesting, quite like the British P.1121, but the bubble canopy makes it look much more modern than 1953. Doesn't seem area-ruled however and Mach 2 seems doubtful.
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Offline archipeppe

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2012, 10:03:09 am »
Really great images!
Indeed the Fang looks like more Convair-ish than Northrop...

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2012, 10:37:18 am »
Indeed the Fang looks like more Convair-ish than Northrop...

I don't quite agree. There is something of the YA-9 in the front fuselage...

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2012, 10:52:41 am »
I don't quite agree. There is something of the YA-9 in the front fuselage...

Of course, this is quite easy to understand since Fang and YA-9 are both Northrop product (even with 15 years of difference). My opinion was based upon some similiarities with Convair delta fighters of the time in which Fang was proposed...

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2012, 02:14:57 pm »
It would be interesting to "build" a computer model and run it thru a virtual wind tunnel.  The leading edge camber - I thought that was a Convair design feature that evolved with their deltas.  Did the cambered leading edge instead come out of NACA studies?

The landing gear is awkward but I would love to build an R/C electric ducted fan model of the Fang - would look cool in the air...

Enjoy the Day! Mark

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2012, 01:02:21 am »
  Wow thanks once again Mark, for delivering the goods once again!!
 The photo with the varies cannon options is interesting!
I thought the missiles on the mock-up were Aim-4 Falcon AAM’s.........but the last photo you posted emphasises that they are in fact two different sizes! Does anyone know what missiles they are??
The more I see of the Fang, the more I think it would have been a winner!!


Please keep them coming!!
 
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Pioneer
 
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Faithfulness and fortitude.
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Offline pathology_doc

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2012, 04:36:07 am »
Pioneer, the one on the inboard pylon certainly looks like an AIM-4 (possibly a -4D, F, or G). I almost said AIM-4D and AIM-26B at first, but the inner missile doesn't quite have the right body shape for the -26B. The one on the outboard pylon looks like a miniaturised version (developed?), but I suspect we will need an "American Secret Projects: Ramjets, Missiles and Hypersonics" book to answer that question.
 
I agree with you that this is one of those projects that ought to have gone ahead. For now, it will just have to sit around Heaven's hangar with the P.1121, thin-wing Javelin and the like, dreaming about what might have been!

Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2012, 08:59:15 am »
Thanks all - just very lucky to do this and find gold at times.

Here's a few more from Gerald's collection...

Enjoy the Day! Mark
The man on the left in photo # x107945-106 is none other than Edgar O. "Ed" Schmued - designer of the P-51 Mustang and Twin Mustang! - SP
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 09:01:11 am by XB-70 Guy »
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Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2012, 09:51:11 pm »
Fantastic pictures Mark, now all we need is the Ginter monograph to complete the package.
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2012, 01:42:21 am »
Steve, still writing for Ginter?

Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2012, 07:26:19 am »
No, I'm sorry to say. -SP
When you know you're right, go ahead.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2012, 01:12:23 am »
Split topic from N-156 info.
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Offline macca

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« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 12:26:29 pm by flateric »

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2012, 07:54:11 pm »
Wow great find Macca!!!
Never thought I would be able to find a cut-away of the sadley overlooked and forgotten Fang  :o
 
Keep the search and finding coming  :P
 
P.S. that M61 shore does look much bigger in the Fang, when compared to the monsters like the Phantom II, Thunderchief etc........
 
Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2012, 03:32:10 am »
Does anyone know what radar was intended to be fitted to the Fang???


Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2012, 11:03:31 am »
Interesting two seater Fang.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 10:57:17 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2012, 01:38:10 pm »
Couple of drawings showing A to A and A to G loadouts.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 10:55:47 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2012, 01:40:53 pm »
Great Fang stuff, RAP. Thanks for sharing!

Offline aim9xray

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #53 on: September 27, 2012, 02:21:59 pm »
Does anyone know what radar was intended to be fitted to the Fang?
Based on the inboard profile, APG-30.

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2012, 08:50:22 pm »
3-view and inboard profile of V-tailed Fang.

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2012, 08:58:04 pm »
FANG for the US Navy.  Cut off the year on the second drawing, proposal was dated 1954.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 10:56:39 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2012, 12:10:22 am »
Outstanding effort RAP!!!
Very interesting the carrier-based Fang proposal to the USN!
This would potentially make it a competitor to the Grumman F11F Tiger??
Please keep them coming my friend  :P

Regards
Pioneer

And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2012, 05:38:04 am »
I'm thrilled at all the Northrop-related material you're digging out! And the Fang has always been a pet project of mine, so it's cool.

Offline hesham

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2012, 07:02:23 am »
FANG for the US Navy.  Cut off the year on the second drawing, proposal was dated 1954.


Gear find RAP;


and that is the Northrop design PD-2542,from PD series.

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2012, 02:04:30 pm »
Few more Fang items.  Hope you enjoy them.

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2012, 03:15:35 pm »
coool! thank you, Rich
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Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #61 on: October 20, 2012, 04:04:51 am »
Wow nice one again RAP!!

The alternative internal weapons drawings are very interesting indeed!!
I'm surprised how far Northrop was prepared to go with a design, so confident they must have been that it would go into production!!

I'm very interested to see in Alternative Armament Drawing 2, the 2.75in IR-seeking air-to-air rocket!
I've never heard of this 2.75 in IR-seeking rocket before! :o I never new that the U.S had such refined technology in that era, let alone the ability to fit an IR seeker head of such a small size!! Can anyone direct me to more info on this rocket project??

And what of this T-132 38mm rocket launcher/gun system? Is this the same system that was trialed on a Douglas A-1 Skyraider?

Also I now have to investigate this 1.50 in NAKA rocket

Thanks heaps again RAP, but now you've opened a big can of worms on me  ;)

Regards
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Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2012, 09:40:14 am »
Hi Pioneer-  I looked through the report where I'm getting a lot of this material and it gives some specifics on the individual weapons.  Basic internal armament was a T-171E2 20mm lightweight gatling gun.
Alternate-
1) 132 NAKA 1.5in rockets. Mounted in 'pop-out' packages of 66 rockets each.  23.75x1.5 inch, folding fin, weight 3.54lbs., warhead contained .40lbs high explosive.
2) 2 T-160 20mm guns, 150 rounds per gun.
3) 2 T-182 30mm guns, 120 rounds per gun.
4) 32 'Gimlet' or 'Redstone' 2in folding fin rockets. Mounted in 'swing-out' packages of 16 rockets each. 'Gimlet'- 48x2in, weight 9.3lbs, warhead contained 1 lb high explosive.  'Redstone' (T-214)- 48x2in, weight 10.43lbs, warhead contained 1.40lb.
5) 18 2.75 folding fin or infra-red seeking missiles.  9 missiles mounted in place of 'Gimlet'/'Restone' installation. No information proivded on this missile but the reports states it will be designed to be interchangable with the 2.75 FFAR rocket. 
6) 1 T-132 38mm automatic rocket launcher with 135 spin stabilized T-225 rockets. 5 barrel automatic launcher.  Rocket weight 1 lb., warhead contained .25lbs high explosive.
Also 4 M-3 50cal mgs with  370 rounds each could be fitted. 
The alternate installations were designed as interchangable preloaded units in which the conversion from one installtion to another could be done in the field by 4 men in 3 hours. 

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2012, 08:02:17 am »
In the November 2012 issue of the French magazine "Le fana de l'aviation" there is an article about Northrop N-102 Fang.
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2012, 08:06:25 am »
It has been already published?

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2012, 08:42:27 pm »
More FANG stuff.  This is for the V-tailed design.  The report it came from was dated January 1953.  The conventional tail design replaced this version in mid 1954.  The V-tail design only had guns in the fuselage.  It carried rockets but those were mounted in the wing.  I have drawings of these installations and cockpit layout which I'll post a little later.

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2012, 01:51:01 am »
It has been already published?

Le Fana usually comes out around the 20th of the previous month.

Offline lark

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2012, 11:46:29 am »
This thread is better than the recent Fana article about...

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2012, 04:53:39 pm »
More FANG stuff.  This is for the V-tailed design.  The report it came from was dated January 1953.  The conventional tail design replaced this version in mid 1954.  The V-tail design only had guns in the fuselage.  It carried rockets but those were mounted in the wing.  I have drawings of these installations and cockpit layout which I'll post a little later.

'rockets mounted in the wing' would be exciting to view, thank you in advance.  :)

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2012, 07:12:09 am »
The basic rocket armament configuration was 80 1.5in rockets, 40 inside each wing and were fixed in a downward slant.  Drawings show this installation as well as alternates.

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2012, 07:22:07 am »
Cockpit drawings.  Interesting drawing of alternate cockpit with two side stick controllers.

Offline Mark Nankivil

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2012, 08:22:52 am »
Excellent material RAP - thanks!  Mark

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2012, 08:30:40 am »
Wow, Much thanks to you RAP.
J

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #73 on: February 24, 2013, 04:45:46 pm »
http://ghostmodeler.blogspot.com/2013/02/fanged-butterfly-northrops-first-vee.html
 
Tony Chong has a new article up, this time about the early V-tailed Fang. Lots of good illustrations.
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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2013, 04:54:26 pm »
Brilliant, as usual. Thanks Scott for the pointer.

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Offline circle-5

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2013, 10:58:11 pm »
Modern Philippine replica of questionable accuracy. Not original, not recommended.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2013, 01:03:45 am »
Modern Philippine replica of questionable accuracy. Not original, not recommended.

I was under the impression the quality was not quite to a par with the original models... Now I know why.  ::)

They used to have only wooden stands with metal rods... Amazing now how they even try to imitate the original logos and markings...  >:(

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2013, 02:12:03 am »
The vendor doesn't claim its an original, to be fair.
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Offline Triton

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2013, 09:43:02 am »
Modern Philippine replica of questionable accuracy. Not original, not recommended.

Thank you for taking a look, circle-5. Was hoping that it was an original.  :( Although the model looks too clean and the decals are intact and not torn or yellowed for it to be an original.

They used to have only wooden stands with metal rods... Amazing now how they even try to imitate the original logos and markings...  >:(

I gave the model more credibility because of the old Northrop logo on the stand. Now I know.

The vendor doesn't claim its an original, to be fair.

So Griffin Aerospace Models does not have the credibility of Topping, Par-Tool, Verkuiyl, or Pacmin. Good to know.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 09:58:30 am by Triton »

Offline damian2

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2014, 06:21:07 pm »
Hi all

In case you don't make it down to the art work section I started my  new project. Line art is now done after 6.5 hours. Most of that pouring over the mock ups and deciding which actual aircraft would serve as stand in parts that the mock up didn't show.



The next step is deciding on colour schemes. A SEA is on the cards for sure, perhaps ANG and AFRES (think AFRES F-105s in all those awesome schemes) and perhaps some foreign operators.

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #81 on: May 16, 2014, 10:47:16 am »

Edited - actual source is http://ghostmodeler.blogspot.com/2013/02/fanged-butterfly-northrops-first-vee.html


Don't forget to check out Tony Chong's article.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 11:32:10 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #82 on: May 16, 2014, 11:16:53 am »
That second pic could easily be turned into the parts breakdown for a kit... ;D

Offline Stratodesigner

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2014, 02:52:35 am »
Hi

This is my first post to this forum. I could never figure out why the images never appeared - until I registered and logged in!

The Northrop N-102 is a fascinating little aircraft that looks like a version of an F-16 - and this is back in 1953!

Any guesses on the performance of the aircraft?

Specifications so far:

Span: 23 ft
Length: 41 ft
Wing Area: 314 sq ft
Thrust: J-79 gives "11,905 lbf (52.9 kN) dry; 17,835 lbf (79.3 kN) with afterburner" - Wikipedia

What about loaded weight of the aircraft in air - to air role? Given the wing area and thrust, we could get an idea of its stall speed, turn capability and rate of climb.

For comparison: Mig 21:

Length: 51 ft. 8 in.
Wingspan: 23 ft. 5 in.
Height: 13 ft. 6 in.
Wing Area: 247.5 sq. ft.
Empty Weight: 11,800 lbs.

 http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/militaryaircraft/p/mig21.htm

Mirage III

Length: 15.03 m (49 ft 3½ in)
Wingspan: 8.22 m (26 ft 11⅝ in)
Height: 4.50 m (14 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 34.85 m² (375 ft²)
Empty weight: 7,050 kg (15,600 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,600 kg (21,164 lb)
Thrust: 9,000- 13,000 lb (AB)

(Wikipedia)

« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 03:11:10 am by Stratodesigner »

Offline hesham

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2014, 03:54:00 am »
Good Comparison Stratodesigner.

Offline kcran567

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2014, 05:17:13 am »
I've seen the other threads, and I think Aircraft magazine did a story on the Fang? Why was this little plane not produced, was the Starfighter chosen instead? Does sort of look like an Mig-21 competitor as Hesham and Stratodesigner have said.

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2014, 05:42:11 am »
Well I wanted to do an estimate of the following performance figures for this one and several other 'concept fighters'

The biggest questions are:

1. What it the relationship between wing loading and stall speed?
2. What is the relationship between thrust loading or thrust to weight and rate of climb?

Are there formula for these?

Hope to do a  little analysis on my own and post the results here.

It would seem that in discussing specifications of designs that never flew, estimating performance would be a big part.  :'(

Offline TomS

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2014, 07:16:05 am »
I've seen the other threads, and I think Aircraft magazine did a story on the Fang? Why was this little plane not produced, was the Starfighter chosen instead? Does sort of look like an Mig-21 competitor as Hesham and Stratodesigner have said.

The main reason seems to be that the Air Force wasn't actually interested in a lightweight fighter until Lockheed made an unsolicited offer of the CL-246 (later F-104).  The Air Force liked the idea and came up with a corresponding General Operational Requirement.  The N-102 was offered (along with a couple of other aircraft) for that GOR, but Lockheed was much further along with their design and it would have been very hard for anyone else to win.
 

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2014, 11:45:31 am »
Are there formula for these?

Hope to do a  little analysis on my own and post the results here.


There are, and they are complex. "Aircraft Design: A Conceptual Approach" by Daniel P Raymer will give you some idea of the flavour. Unfortunately, being a textbook, it's very expensive, and ironically, used previous editions are even more hideously so. A search for related titles might turn something up that's less pricey, or if you live in a major city, university libraries will stock appropriate references.


At the end of the day, in that era, performance estimation was something even the experts could get grossly wrong, usually with unpleasant consequences for the design.


Quote from: TomS
but Lockheed was much further along with their design and it would have been very hard for anyone else to win.


A shame, because this is one of the might-have-beens which IMO deserved to be a should-have-been. Others, not so much.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #89 on: August 07, 2014, 12:05:49 am »
Exactly so. N-102 seems to be suffering from a lack of area ruling, for starters, so that would be a brake on performance.
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Offline Stratodesigner

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2014, 03:36:12 am »
Quote
At the end of the day, in that era, performance estimation was something even the experts could get grossly wrong, usually with unpleasant consequences for the design.

Looks like this is the case. Comparisons with other aircraft - Mirage III, Mig 21, Delta Dagger, F4D Skyray  did not show any discernible trends. I did try comparing the square root of wing loading, there was a rough variance of about 40%.  Accurate figures for stall speeds are hard to come by as well.

I will simply list the known wing loadings and specifications of the other comparable fighters to get a rough idea of the performance of the N-102.

Does "Secretprojects.co.uk" have a database of aircraft? It would seem a convenient place to put all this info in searchable form.

I notice the "Temco Model 31 VF Day  Fighter" is not listed anywhere, it has a similar layout.

http://retromechanix.com/temco-model-31-vf-day-fighter/nggallery/image/spot-illustration-of-the-temco-model-31-landing-on-a-carrier-deck-the-quality-of-the-artwork-in-the-temco-proposal-was-more-primitive-than-that-of-larger-companies-perhaps-reflecting-the-smaller-siz

Offline Motocar

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2014, 10:24:22 am »
Wow great find Macca!!!
Never thought I would be able to find a cut-away of the sadley overlooked and forgotten Fang  :o
 
Keep the search and finding coming  :P
 
P.S. that M61 shore does look much bigger in the Fang, when compared to the monsters like the Phantom II, Thunderchief etc........
 
Regards
Pioneer

This modified cutaway make it some years ago and got two forums in which I participate, at least one friend decided to share it here too.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 09:54:29 pm by PaulMM (Overscan) »

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« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 06:20:34 am by blackkite »

Offline ZacYates

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #94 on: March 16, 2017, 01:56:51 pm »
I kinda want a model or three of the Fang. What a sweet design, and what a treasure trove of imagery! Thanks to everyone who's shared their stuff.

Offline RAP

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2017, 02:05:34 pm »
Fang mockup cockpit.

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2017, 06:20:04 pm »
Nice find RAP!!

Thank's

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

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Offline kcran567

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2017, 08:17:07 pm »
Why couldn't an FBW equipped version of this have been considered for the LWF competition? Seems like an effective aircraft that could have been made in numbers. Or used as a sub-LWF for customers needing something less.

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2018, 07:19:27 am »
Northrop ad from 1956.

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #99 on: December 01, 2018, 03:33:58 pm »
Something I hadn't realized, even though his name is on the patent, is that Edgar Schmued, the designer of the P-51, was also one of the lead designers on Fang. You can even see him on the left in this pic post by Mark upthread;

Edgar Schmued and Fang

I know I'm usually late to the party, but I just thought I would point it out for others who hadn't noticed it before either. I just read this in the book on the development of the P-51. Of course, it was also noted in Tony Chong's post on the butterfly tail version as well. It just never clicked with me until I read the P-51 book.

Edit: OK, something else really interesting is that it was Echols who brought Schmued over to Northrop. It's interesting, because in the P-51 development book, Echols was the one primarily blocking the USAAC from using the P-51 as an escort fighter. The main reasons being that the P-51 was designed to a British Spec., not an American Spec., it was designed by a German emigre, and NA wasn't a big well known company like Curtiss or GM; Echols wanted the Curtiss P-60 as the new escort fighter and when that failed and it's and the P-40's designer Don Berlin left and went to GM, he had them try to develop an escort fighter, the XP-75. A lot of it also had to do with the whole bomber mentality that had infected the USAAC as well. The P-51 was almost the U.S. equivalent to the Me-262, but the British persisted, along with some U.S. pilots who had flown it, in getting it used as a fighter by the U.S.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 03:48:12 pm by Sundog »

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Northrop N-102 Fang light fighter
« Reply #100 on: December 04, 2018, 02:34:39 am »
Thank you Sundog, I found the above info interesting!!

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M