Register here

Author Topic: Blended Wing Bodies  (Read 52721 times)

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Blended Wing Bodies
« on: August 16, 2007, 11:30:38 pm »
A preview of issue V1N3 of Aerospace Projects Review. The original version had an article on a single one of these BWB designs... the revised issue describes the lot of 'em.

And yes, they are to scale. One of these design is obviously... kinda big.

http://www.up-ship.com
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2007, 05:50:22 am »
Is that top one the nuclear powered one?
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2007, 08:25:07 am »
Yup! VTOL, as well. Lockheed sometimes thinks big and nutty.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline BAROBA

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 320
  • 3D artist
    • BAROBA's 3D portfolio-site
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2007, 08:29:44 am »
Yup! VTOL, as well. Lockheed sometimes thinks big and nutty.

VTOL? Like take-off in a day?  :P
A 747 weights about 60 metric tons, this would be like a 1000-2000 metric tons (if not more)
The runway would be gigantic in length ( and width)
They could make a runway on top of this thing for other planes to take-off from :P
Nice to have such ideas :D


Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 08:51:58 am »
Yup! VTOL, as well. Lockheed sometimes thinks big and nutty.

VTOL? Like take-off in a day?  :P
A 747 weights about 60 metric tons, this would be like a 1000-2000 metric tons (if not more)
The runway would be gigantic in length ( and width)
They could make a runway on top of this thing for other planes to take-off from :P
Nice to have such ideas :D



Version I saw was a seaplane as I recall.  As for using runways all you need is enough wheels to get the ground pressure down (see the Pelikan for example) and a wingloading to make the takeoff distance reasonable.  It's not rocket science. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2007, 09:01:03 am »

A 747 weights about 60 metric tons, this would be like a 1000-2000 metric tons (if not more)

5386 metric tons, actually.

Quote
The runway would be gigantic in length ( and width)

And hense the hundred and fifty or so lift jets for VTOL operations.

Quote
They could make a runway on top of this thing for other planes to take-off from

Interesting you should say that. See the little fighter-sized craft near the port side of the nose? Well... guess where it and 23 of its closest friends were meant to operate from...
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2007, 09:02:28 am »
There's a picture around on this site of one in flight with four KC-135s DOCKED to the trailing edge.  :o
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2007, 09:02:48 am »

Version I saw was a seaplane as I recall. 

The great little book "Future Fighters" has a Lockheed painting of this critter. The books author speculates that it was to be a seaplane, but it was strictly land-based.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2007, 09:03:55 am »
There's a picture around on this site of one in flight with four KC-135s DOCKED to the trailing edge.  :o

Yup. There were two versions of this, with that one being STOL rather than VTOL. Fewer lift jets.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Online flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8656
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2007, 09:14:03 am »
There ya go.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2007, 09:36:32 am »

Version I saw was a seaplane as I recall. 

The great little book "Future Fighters" has a Lockheed painting of this critter. The books author speculates that it was to be a seaplane, but it was strictly land-based.

First place I saw it back in grade school.  ;)
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2007, 10:25:13 am »
First place I saw it back in grade school.  ;)

Jr. High for me. While the '40's and '50's were the Golden Age of "projects," I think the '80s was the Godlen Age of Current Projects Publications. The books published back then  were jam-packed with quality artists impressions of what was on the planning boards. Today there are *far* more bits of art available... but most of it is computer generated crap.

Something I've noticed is that as PowerPoint and similar desktop publishing programs became available, the quality of presentations has gone *down.* In the 1960s, if you had a presentation for the USAF on, say, your neato new fighter design, you had the art department put together a package of drawings and paintings. Today you cobble together some MS Paint sketches yourself. Bah.
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2007, 10:59:12 am »
The 80s were the years you could go down to Waldenbook almost every weekend and pickup a new book or two by Salamander Publishing and others.   :'(
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7162
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2007, 11:25:04 am »
The 80s were the years you could go down to Waldenbook almost every weekend and pickup a new book or two by Salamander Publishing and others.   :'(

Yup. Sigh...
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10954
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2007, 12:28:17 pm »
I'd say "Project Cancelled" from my school library and then Salamander's "Warplanes of the Future" from my local bookshop were the beginnings of this site :)
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline elmayerle

  • Aerospace Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1243
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2007, 01:33:03 am »
First place I saw it back in grade school.  ;)

Jr. High for me. While the '40's and '50's were the Golden Age of "projects," I think the '80s was the Godlen Age of Current Projects Publications. The books published back then  were jam-packed with quality artists impressions of what was on the planning boards. Today there are *far* more bits of art available... but most of it is computer generated crap.

Something I've noticed is that as PowerPoint and similar desktop publishing programs became available, the quality of presentations has gone *down.* In the 1960s, if you had a presentation for the USAF on, say, your neato new fighter design, you had the art department put together a package of drawings and paintings. Today you cobble together some MS Paint sketches yourself. Bah.

*snicker* I've seen at least one humorous piece floating around work that purportedly describes a MSPE (Masters of Science Degree in Powerpoint Engineering) program.  Given all the presentations we required to produc on occassion, it sometimes feels all too true.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7934
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2007, 01:35:46 pm »
"VTOL? Like take-off in a day? "

Found this tiny little concept in Icare from 1971 :
Nuclear powered and 150m span ...   ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2007, 05:08:25 pm »
First place I saw it back in grade school.  ;)

Jr. High for me. While the '40's and '50's were the Golden Age of "projects," I think the '80s was the Godlen Age of Current Projects Publications. The books published back then  were jam-packed with quality artists impressions of what was on the planning boards. Today there are *far* more bits of art available... but most of it is computer generated crap.

Something I've noticed is that as PowerPoint and similar desktop publishing programs became available, the quality of presentations has gone *down.* In the 1960s, if you had a presentation for the USAF on, say, your neato new fighter design, you had the art department put together a package of drawings and paintings. Today you cobble together some MS Paint sketches yourself. Bah.

*snicker* I've seen at least one humorous piece floating around work that purportedly describes a MSPE (Masters of Science Degree in Powerpoint Engineering) program.  Given all the presentations we required to produc on occassion, it sometimes feels all too true.

I've heard some of the military folk referred to as "Powerpoint Warriors"  :D
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline robunos

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1724
  • You're Mad, You Are.....
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2007, 04:52:22 pm »
while googling for something else, i found this,

http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/AIAA2003-6732.pdf

cheers,
         Robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2008, 04:33:48 am »
Hi,

from NASA,the BWB extension for shielding.

Offline Jeb

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 246
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2008, 07:14:00 pm »

Version I saw was a seaplane as I recall. 

The great little book "Future Fighters" has a Lockheed painting of this critter. The books author speculates that it was to be a seaplane, but it was strictly land-based.

First place I saw it back in grade school.  ;)

I've got it on my  bedside table now.  ;D Found a copy on Amazon and bought it for myself this past Christmas.

Offline AeroFranz

  • Aerospace Engineer
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2008, 08:09:53 pm »
Don't want to go too OT, but  Bill Gunston's above mentioned 'Warplanes of the future' and the similar 'Future Fighters and Combat Aircraft' were outstanding references. That was almost 20 years ago (the X-29 hadn't flown yet!). Is it me or there hasn't been anything comparable since (quality-wise)?
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2008, 02:43:35 am »

Offline Abraham Gubler

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3559
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2008, 04:39:12 pm »
Some interesting patents with great images in relation to the McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing) blended wing body (BWB) airliner, military support aircraft. Great supplements to APR 1/3

Transformable Airplane, David Whelan et al
Boeing patent detailing a military combi version of the BWB (2-250G in the figures?) including bomber with rearward ejection chutes, ISR, IFR tanker and military strategic transport and modular combinations.
US Patent: 7093798
http://www.google.com/patents?id=uDp6AAAAEBAJ&dq=7093798

Variable Size Blended Wing Body Aircraft, Mark Page et al
Details of the modular body structure of the McDD/Boeing BWB commercial airliner concept.
US Patent: 6568632
http://www.google.com/patents?id=AiANAAAAEBAJ&dq=6568632

Separate Boundary Layer Engine, Gerhard Seidel
BWB buried engine intake design.
US Patent 6527224
http://www.google.com/patents?id=zhENAAAAEBAJ&dq=6527224

Method And System For Presenting Differing View To Passengers In A Moving Vehicle, Orin Humphries
Boeing application for ‘window seats’ for BWB, good images of internal layout.
US Patent: 7046259
http://www.google.com/patents?id=FPF3AAAAEBAJ&dq=0217978

Landing Arrangement For An Aircraft, Kenneth Udall
Rolls-Royce designto lower the BWB’s nose on landing to engage thrust reversers.
US Patent: 7143975
http://www.google.com/patents?id=nRF9AAAAEBAJ&dq=7143975

Engine Arrangement, Karim El Hamel, et al
Rolls-Royce plan for engine pod/nacelles for BWB.
US Patent: 7107755
http://www.google.com/patents?id=cjV6AAAAEBAJ&dq=7107755

The attached image is just a teaser the real interesting stuff is in the patents...


Edit: Add some more patent picturesincluding the bomb bay modules configuration and the R-R thrust reverser friendly landing alignment: going to want rear facing seats for that one.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 06:58:12 pm by Abraham Gubler »
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline Abraham Gubler

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3559
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2008, 06:58:56 pm »
Another great BWB resource is this Power Point from Boeing Phantom Works:

Technologies For Subsonic Transport by R.H. Leibeck

www.asme.org/gric/AeroWkshop/presentations/RobertLiebeck.pdf

Includes data on a range of BWB commercial and military proposals including BWB 450G comparision to the A380.

Update: Looks like this link has been deactivated.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 04:49:14 pm by Abraham Gubler »
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline Abraham Gubler

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3559
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2008, 04:12:16 am »
The Cruise Efficient Short Take-Off and Landing (CESTOL) Power Point:

http://mdao.grc.nasa.gov/presentations/CESTOL.ppt

and the paper (cited in APR 1/3):

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070010603_2007007182.pdf
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 04:14:29 am by Abraham Gubler »
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline robunos

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1724
  • You're Mad, You Are.....
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2008, 02:26:26 pm »
Quote
Technologies For Subsonic Transport by R.H. Leibeck


i can't get the link to this to work, i get redirected to the homepage, tried searching on the site but no joy,  :'(

cheers,
         Robin.
Where ARE the Daleks when you need them......

Offline Simon666

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 106
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2008, 04:58:04 am »
Anyone got more info on this kind of hybrid design?



http://fseg.gre.ac.uk/NACRE/details.html

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2152
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2008, 03:08:54 am »

Offline KJ_Lesnick

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1012
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2008, 04:46:34 am »
Jemiba,

That 150 meter span VTOL vehicle is impressive.  It actually reminds me a little bit of this airplane in this videogame... I think it was one of the Ace Combat (I saw vids on Youtube awhile ago IIRC) series.  That vehicle however took off of water though in the regular old fashioned horizontal mode.


KJ

Offline Demon Lord Razgriz

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 188
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2008, 03:04:37 pm »
Jemiba,

That 150 meter span VTOL vehicle is impressive.  It actually reminds me a little bit of this airplane in this videogame... I think it was one of the Ace Combat (I saw vids on Youtube awhile ago IIRC) series.  That vehicle however took off of water though in the regular old fashioned horizontal mode.


KJ

Was it Ace Combat 6 with the Estovakian Aerial Fleet consisting of the P-1112 Aigaion Flying Aircraft Carrier, & the escorts P-1113 & P-1114? Or was it Ace Combat Zero with the Belkan XB-0?

Online flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8656
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2008, 03:13:46 pm »
Please, no videogames here, OK?
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Antonio

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 3333
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2008, 11:58:22 pm »
Quote
Was it Ace Combat 6 with the Estovakian Aerial Fleet consisting of the P-1112 Aigaion Flying Aircraft Carrier, & the escorts P-1113 & P-1114? Or was it Ace Combat Zero with the Belkan XB-0?

Estovakian?, those names are really ridiculous. Who is the creator? >:(

Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2152
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2008, 09:06:12 am »
Games are for kids
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2008, 04:07:20 am »
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 05:28:41 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792


Offline donnage99

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 953
  • "Robert Gates, is that you??" sublight
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2009, 10:04:08 pm »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline Colonial-Marine

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 586
  • Fighting the UAV mafia.
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2009, 09:46:45 am »
Just saw the original post of that massive nuclear powered VTOL ummm, aircraft carrier.

I thought we ran out of such crazy ideas in the 1960s. Are those (retractable?) side bays behind the cockpit area just for more lift engines? While completely crazy, I suppose it is technically possible. Would probably cost as much as a Nimitz class carrier to maintain however, among other things.

The other smaller designs certainly look much more feasible.

And Moonbat, there are some very complex combat flight sims out there, although most come from developers in Eastern Europe these days.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9704
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2009, 08:30:22 pm »
Model of Boeing Blended Wing Body aircraft at the Hiller Aviation Institute and Museum in San Carlos, CA.

http://www.freewebs.com/aeroscale/hillermuseum.htm

Offline donnage99

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 953
  • "Robert Gates, is that you??" sublight
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2010, 11:03:16 pm »
Video for what Hesham posted of reconfigurable transport concept:


Offline Hammer Birchgrove

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 586
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2010, 07:46:14 am »
Games are for kids
Some times big kids.
To the heroism of the Resistance Fighters -- past, present and future -- this post is respectfully dedicated.

Offline airrocket

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 291
  • Dreams To Reality
    • Retro Flight
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2010, 07:49:16 am »
Build and your own BWB. Put a small UAV turbine in it and paint it black and make like a secret stealth project.

http://www.wingco.com/atlantica_design.htm
Vis Viva

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2010, 08:09:07 am »
Better yet, paint it black and slap a red star on the side and watch the aviation rags go nuts.  ;)
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

sublight

  • Guest
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2010, 08:20:26 am »
Build and your own BWB. Put a small UAV turbine in it and paint it black and make like a secret stealth project.

http://www.wingco.com/atlantica_design.htm
Guys in Medellin are probably working on that right now. They have a transportation budget equal to or exceeding Walmart....

Offline Just call me Ray

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 680
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2010, 11:38:27 am »
Lady in the first vid is cute :p

Quote

http://www.wingco.com/atlantica_design.htm
[/quote]

I've heard of them, but I haven't heard of any progress they made or if there are any kits sold. I know the plane started out as a completely different configuration.

Quote
Guys in Medellin are probably working on that right now. They have a transportation budget equal to or exceeding Walmart....


Medellin?
It's a crappy self-made pic of a Lockheed Unmanned Combat Armed Rotorcraft (UCAR), BTW
Even Saddam realized the hazard of airplanes, and was discovered hiding in a bunker.
- Skydrol from Airliners.net

sublight

  • Guest
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #55 on: May 02, 2010, 01:32:56 pm »
Lady in the first vid is cute :p

Quote

http://www.wingco.com/atlantica_design.htm

I've heard of them, but I haven't heard of any progress they made or if there are any kits sold. I know the plane started out as a completely different configuration.

Quote
Guys in Medellin are probably working on that right now. They have a transportation budget equal to or exceeding Walmart....


Medellin?
[/quote]
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/inside/4291/Overview


Offline Stuka

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Klaatu barada nikto
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2010, 11:42:52 pm »
Atlantica crashed in 2003 on a high speed taxi test when the airplane unexpectedly became airborne.  NTSB report HERE.  Message from the designer/pilot about the incident HERE.  It doesn't look like much has happened since then.

Offline Sundog

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2010, 11:05:54 am »
Atlantica crashed in 2003 on a high speed taxi test when the airplane unexpectedly became airborne.  NTSB report HERE.  Message from the designer/pilot about the incident HERE.  It doesn't look like much has happened since then.

IIRC, it had serious stability and control issues. The last I had heard, they were considering adding tail booms and a tail, but that was a couple of years ago.

Offline donnage99

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 953
  • "Robert Gates, is that you??" sublight
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2010, 03:56:51 pm »
NASA forward-swept/blended wing body and box-wing/blended body hybrids.

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9704
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2010, 01:50:14 pm »
Russian concept of a 938 passenger aircraft with a range of 6,280 nautical miles, cruise Mach number = 0.8, and L/D = 25 (courtesy of Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute - TsAGI and Aeronautical Systems Analysis Division, NASA Langley).

Source: http://www.aee.odu.edu/fas.php?id=2

Offline Nick

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2010, 03:33:09 pm »
Does the Sukhoi T-4MS count in this category?


Offline slamode40

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 2
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2010, 06:52:09 pm »
No.It's not a BWB,and there's already a catagory for the T-4MS

Offline Grey Havoc

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 8100
  • The path not taken.
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2011, 05:36:50 am »
I've heard some of the military folk referred to as "Powerpoint Warriors"  :D

The term these days is "Powerpoint Rangers", so I've heard.
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline yasotay

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1873
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2011, 06:20:59 pm »
I've heard some of the military folk referred to as "Powerpoint Warriors"  :D

The term these days is "Powerpoint Rangers", so I've heard.

Indeed "Powerpoint Rangers" are legion throughout the Army.  Air Force tends to go with "Hour Ratings" and some wags even have "2000 hour Powerpoint" badges on their flight suits where they might otherwise have aircraft patches.  A sure sign of a soul lost in staff hell at a Headquarters somewhere.

Now back to your regularly posted BWB discussion.  ;D

Offline Grey Havoc

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 8100
  • The path not taken.
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Kryptid

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 275
    • Unbuilt Aircraft Projects on Facebook.
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2011, 12:16:11 pm »
Quote
NASA's N3-X hybrid wing-body (HWB) design:

I found their "turboelectric distributed propulsion" concept quite interesting. I wonder if this idea has been tested yet?
Jesus is coming soon. Be prepared for Him.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2012, 03:41:36 pm »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline Grey Havoc

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 8100
  • The path not taken.
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2013, 02:07:03 pm »
Hear This - The BWB is Quiet! (Things With Wings blog)

The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline antigravite

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 658
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2013, 03:21:32 am »
Boeing was issued a BWB Aircraft Patent # US8256706.
It has some interesting illustrations.

A.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
L e t   b o l d s   b e   l i g h t
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Offline Alcides

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 428
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2013, 09:28:22 am »
I'm fascinated with this blended bodies.


Maybe is old news but I didn't found any reference to this on the forum:


http://www.twitt.org/BWBBowers.html


The NASA presentation about blended bodies which is very informative about the subject.




Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2013, 11:53:51 am »
Boeing was issued a BWB Aircraft Patent # US8256706.
It has some interesting illustrations.

A.

Reminds me of this one:

"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline antigravite

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 658
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2013, 12:58:49 pm »
WOW! almost perfect match. Your version seem to be the civilian chapter.

A.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 01:02:23 pm by antigravite »
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
L e t   b o l d s   b e   l i g h t
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Online sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 11232
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2013, 01:11:39 pm »
WOW! almost perfect match. Your version seem to be the civilian chapter.

A.

There's a thread here somewhere with that design in it but for the life of me I couldn't find it.  IIRC it's a Lockheed design.

edit:  Here it is  http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,215.195.html  (Post #196.  You'll also like posts #201 & 202.)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 01:15:01 pm by sferrin »
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Sundog

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2013, 04:22:09 am »
It's the advanced cargo design being looked at by the USAF. Isn't the program called FAST or something like that?

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2013, 04:31:17 am »
It's the advanced cargo design being looked at by the USAF. Isn't the program called FAST or something like that?

It's the Boeing AJACS.

Offline Aeroengineer1

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #77 on: December 31, 2013, 07:42:00 pm »
Indeed those two projects are related, both the Boeing and the Lockheed model were part of the Speed Agile Concept Demonstrator program.  I know the Lockheed model very well as I was one of the primary engineers for the physical design of the wind tunnel model.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2014, 05:33:37 am »
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 05:36:46 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #79 on: June 24, 2014, 05:05:15 am »
Russian concept of a 938 passenger aircraft with a range of 6,280 nautical miles, cruise Mach number = 0.8, and L/D = 25 (courtesy of Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute - TsAGI and Aeronautical Systems Analysis Division, NASA Langley).

Source: http://www.aee.odu.edu/fas.php?id=2


Hi,


here is the Aerospatiale and TsAGI BWB aircraft concept of 1996.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 04:35:44 pm by hesham »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2014, 11:30:00 am »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #81 on: October 03, 2014, 04:09:14 am »
Hi,

the AC20.30.

http://www.ac2030.de/sites/ac2030/ac2030_eng.html


And from Flieger Revue magazine,the AC20.30.


Also here is the HAW AC20.30 Model and AC20.40 Variants.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2014, 06:38:11 am »
here is the Aerospatiale,Boeing and TsAGI BWB aircraft concept of 2001.

Absolutely NOT. The caption clearly says it's the RUSSIAN concept, therefore TsAGI.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #83 on: October 03, 2014, 04:32:01 pm »
here is the Aerospatiale,Boeing and TsAGI BWB aircraft concept of 2001.

Absolutely NOT. The caption clearly says it's the RUSSIAN concept, therefore TsAGI.


My dear Skyblazer,


it was from France and Russian,in cooperation for BWB,and you are right not Boeing,I will
correct it.

Online flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8656
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #84 on: October 03, 2014, 04:38:09 pm »
Hesham, it was proprietary TsAGI design as you was told already. Dubbed LK-103 configuration. No NASA or whatever else was involved.
 
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #85 on: October 03, 2014, 04:47:12 pm »
My dear Flateric,


I am not saying that,the report who said that;

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7934
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2014, 01:37:32 am »
".. subsequently a Russian BWB project was published, designed with French support. Dimensions
even exceeded those studies by Boeing and Aèrospatiale. The concept by TsAGI would have had a
span of 106 m ..."

There's a French participation mentioned, but it is said loud and clear, that it basically was a TsAGI
project. Another case of a misinterpreted online translation ?
Please, please ask in such cases before posting ! Otherwise Russian/US/French joint projects in the field
of BWB (or others), mentioned this way here may well fly forever in the skies of the internet !!
::)

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2014, 04:29:21 am »
OK my dear Jemiba,


and my apology to my dear Flateric,but the fault is for Google translation,they translate it as;
"Russian with French cooperation".

Offline KJ_Lesnick

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1012
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2014, 03:34:37 pm »
While I have read various things about the BWB designs: I am curious as to what the early designs looked like, and how they overcame issues such as pressurization of a squarish pressure hull

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2015, 05:03:33 am »

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #90 on: September 19, 2015, 04:05:03 am »
Hi,


here is a BWB in digital image form,designed by RAeS.


http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/49379/1/AFM0708FINAL.pdf

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #91 on: December 21, 2015, 07:30:51 am »
Russian concept of a 938 passenger aircraft with a range of 6,280 nautical miles, cruise Mach number = 0.8, and L/D = 25 (courtesy of Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute - TsAGI and Aeronautical Systems Analysis Division, NASA Langley).

Source: http://www.aee.odu.edu/fas.php?id=2

Here is the same design with some data.

Studiendepartment Fahrzeugtechnik und Flugzeugbau
Recherche zu patentierten Flugzeugkonfigurationen
Verfasser: Stephan Müller

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #93 on: May 22, 2016, 05:04:45 am »

Here is the same design with some data.

Studiendepartment Fahrzeugtechnik und Flugzeugbau
Recherche zu patentierten Flugzeugkonfigurationen
Verfasser: Stephan Müller

Here is a TsAGI BWB aircraft from 1995,the third drawing,I don't know if it was from the same
founder or not ?.

http://alternathistory.com/ravnobedrennyi-treugolnyi-i-letaet-proekt-passazhirskogo-samoleta-tsagi-letayushchee-krylo-900-rossi

Offline Sundog

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2016, 07:52:29 am »
The last drawing is a version of the Handley Page Aerobus. It went the opposite direction of most airliners, it went with a low aspect ratio wing that was really thick, which allowed for a very light structure, comparatively speaking. Which would have made it less expensive to build. However, it wasn't as aerodynamically efficient due to the low aspect ratio wing. But it was designed for short haul flights (London to Paris) so it could still compete with standard designs. I've always thought it was a very smart design for a short range airliner.

So to answer your question; It's definitely not the same founder. ;)

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2016, 08:30:43 am »
Thank you my dear Sundog,

I forget it.

Offline bobbymike

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 8522
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline bring_it_on

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1837
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2016, 05:24:41 pm »
Old radar types never die; they just phased array - Unknown

Offline AeroFranz

  • Aerospace Engineer
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2115
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2016, 09:33:50 pm »
Good stuff, thanks for posting the video  :D
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline bring_it_on

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1837
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2016, 04:25:03 pm »
Good stuff, thanks for posting the video  :D

There are other really good presentations and talks that they have recently uploaded...Good Stuff!!
Old radar types never die; they just phased array - Unknown

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #100 on: October 03, 2016, 09:09:02 am »

Offline bobbymike

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 8522
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2017, 01:11:45 am »
http://breakingdefense.com/2017/03/gen-pawlikowski-unveils-key-air-force-planning-group-pca-pew-oa-x/

Quote
Pawlikowski had one big hole in her hope chest: funds to build a prototype blended wing, an elegant looking design the Air Force has been working on occasionally since at least 2008
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline bobbymike

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 8522
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22792
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #103 on: May 31, 2017, 03:58:46 pm »
Hi,

The future development of Boeing’s blended-wing-body (BWB) configuration depends entirely on its suitability for carrying cargo, and in the case of a military tanker-transport in particular, its ability to perform airdrop missions. Key to this capability is an innovative cargo door that Boeing has designed to open like a clamshell in the trailing edge. However, it was unclear what effect such a radical door design opening in midair might have on the airflow around the trailing.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/military-blended-wing-body-variant-step-closer-reality

Offline George Allegrezza

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 782
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #104 on: January 09, 2019, 08:12:14 am »
Latest Boeing BWB configuration as displayed at AIAA SciTech 2019.

Offline Moose

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 914
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #105 on: January 09, 2019, 08:33:28 am »
Thanks for the picture. Was there a blurb accompanying the model? Curious if they said anything about the propulsion beyond "hey it's back to turbofans."

Offline George Allegrezza

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 782
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #106 on: January 09, 2019, 08:57:44 am »
Thanks for the picture. Was there a blurb accompanying the model? Curious if they said anything about the propulsion beyond "hey it's back to turbofans."

No, just a company tweet today, along with images of the previously-disclosed hypersonic aircraft and of the transonic strut-braced transport discussed elsewhere.

Online flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8656
Re: Blended Wing Bodies
« Reply #107 on: January 09, 2019, 10:34:26 am »
This one along with military HWB version already was at FAS'18
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works