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Author Topic: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals  (Read 50504 times)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« on: April 07, 2006, 12:38:25 am »
Rockwell design that competed against the Grumman design that became the X-29. Note the Berkut-alike design, this was an earlier version.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 01:07:34 am by overscan »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2006, 12:40:38 am »
The first pic above is from Flug-Revue July 1979. It seems that a mockup of the Saberbat was shown at the Paris Airshow 1979. I don't suppose anyone visited  and took photos? ;)

« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 01:08:17 am by overscan »
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Offline flateric

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 10:05:29 am »
Some more pics
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 08:23:43 pm by overscan »
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2006, 10:50:46 pm »
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Offline Sundog

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 02:42:58 am »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982 by an engineer at Grumman when I was in high school writing a paper about how I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. I had written various companies about my report and had asked them to critique my designs I had sent with my letter. Many of them responded and sent me photos and drawings, mostly of existing planes, but the Grumman Engineer sent me this design.

At the time, as you've seen back in these forums, Grumman was studying supercruise canard fighters for the ATF design studies. As such, I am assuming this was a close coupled canard super-cruise demonstrator design study.

Edit 2017-04-25 I corresponded with professor Mason about this design and he said it didn't have anything to do with the X-29, especially if you take the time to notice that it is about fourteen feet longer than an X-29. He said it was from the "Air Force Projects" area of the company.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 05:43:06 pm by Sundog »

Offline TinWing

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 11:01:13 am »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982 by an engineer at Grumman when I was in high school writing a paper about how I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. I had written various companies about my report and had asked them to critique my designs I had sent with my letter. Many of them responded and sent me photos and drawings, mostly of existing planes, but the Grumman Engineer sent me this design.

At the time, as you've seen back in these forums, Grumman was studying supercruise canard fighters for the ATF design studies. As such, I am assuming this was a close coupled canard super-cruise demonstrator design study.



This strikes me more as an alternative to the contemporary Northrop F-20 "Tigershark," or perhaps as an alternative to the Rockwell/DASA X-31 demonstrator.  The wing area is also very similar to the X-31 - with very high wingloading for a typical canard delta.


Offline consealed

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 05:07:53 am »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982 by an engineer at Grumman when I was in high school writing a paper about how I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. I had written various companies about my report and had asked them to critique my designs I had sent with my letter. Many of them responded and sent me photos and drawings, mostly of existing planes, but the Grumman Engineer sent me this design.
According your experience you had, you factually are not poor. ;D I can image that pix you sent to so many aeroplane cooporation are realy ahead of the time, so they sent back the photos showed plane, that always be existing. The drawing Grumman sent to you also is conservative.
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Offline TinWing

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 03:22:51 pm »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982....

This design is covered by U.S. patent 4,417,708, filed on May 12, 1982 and titled "Interchangeable Wing Aircraft."


Offline Sundog

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 09:18:41 pm »
Here's another variation on the X-29 with a BoP style (Weissmann?) wing.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5542625&id=l60kAAAAEBAJ&dq=Grumman+aircraft

Offline flateric

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2007, 06:59:12 am »
Genesis of X-29 - first scetch by Nathan Kirschbaum, also shown in artist's rendering here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106.msg576.html#msg576
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2007, 09:25:16 am »
Source:

Steve Pace, X-29, Aero Series 1991
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Offline Firefly 2

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 05:31:16 am »
Very elegant, I like this! Thanks guys!

Offline italian_o

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2007, 01:37:16 am »
Hello,

I have found a pair of drawings on the never developed project of the F-16 Swept (inverse) wing.



I give a look at a some books on the F-16 but this project was never explained.

Is possible to find detailed drawings or other infos?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 01:39:04 am by italian_o »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2007, 10:00:33 am »
From AIAA paper

83-1833 Application of Forward Sweep Wings to an Air Combat Fighter
B. D. Miller and S. K. Hadley, General Dynamics Fort Worth Division

F-16 SFW competed with Rockwell Saberbat and Grumman G-712 for a DARPA contract for an FSW research aircraft. Several types of design were tested, some including canards.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 10:02:18 am by overscan »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2007, 10:54:28 am »
Source:

Steve Pace, The Grumman X-29, Aero Series 1991
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm