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Author Topic: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket  (Read 8412 times)

Offline Wurger

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Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« on: October 06, 2013, 02:56:43 am »
Watch this:

http://www.helios-verlag.com/index.php?id=184

The last images from the video pertain to a "suicidal" AA rocket intended to ramm bombers over the Reich. Some sketches seem to exist, one of them showing two of these underslung the wings of a Me262. I`ve never heard about it. Does anyone own this work from Edmund Bohr?

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 04:19:58 am »
A lttle bit strange to me is, that to my opinion Focke-Achgelis was busy with own designs only
in the field of helicopers. They actually were engaged in license production of a number of fixed
wing types, especially the Me 163, of course, but their main field were choppers. I would think,
that this missile would have been powered by a solid fueled rocket engine ? the cylindrical object
at the rear has a diameter of less than 20 cm (about 8 inches), probably enough, if launched from
an aircraft, but I'm not sure about a ground launch. For a liquid fueled engine to my opinion there's
not enough space. The drawing with all those dimensions seems to mention a volume of 220 litres,
but I don't think, that this could have been tankage. If authentic and not a post-war reconstruction
based on the memories of contemporar witnesses, I think, it washardly more, than an idea drawn
on the backof an envelope, but 'm open to conviction.  ;)
(attached is a screenshot from the video on linked site)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 05:21:50 am »
Great find my dears Wurger and Jemiba,


and I saw it before,but in what book or magazine ?.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 06:26:45 am »
Jemiba wrote:
Quote
A lttle bit strange to me is, that to my opinion Focke-Achgelis was busy with own designs only
in the field of helicopers
Quote

Some years ago Rainer Bogo from Hiddenwings told me he had found many Focke-Achgelis documents depicting more than helicopter subjects, e.g. guided bombs. We will never know the whole story...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 06:51:20 am »
... Rainer Bogo from Hiddenwings ...

Had to google for it, but yes, there it is:

"Hidden Wings GmbH , Euskirchen, Zur Tomberger Mühle 94. Gegenstand: Die Bergung, Restaurie-
rung sowie der Handel mit und der Verleih von Fluggeräten und historischer Technik, ferner alle
damit zusammenhängen den und den Gesellschaftszweck fördernden Geschäfte. Stammkapi-
tal: 25.000,— Euro. Geschäftsführer: Rainer Bogo-Jawlenski, Euskirchen und Albrecht Harm, Köln..
von Bergisch-Gladbach nach Euskirchen. .27. September 2005, HRB 1397"

Translation:Hidden Wings GmbH ... business area: Recovery and restauration, as well as trading and renting of
historical air vehicles and technology, furthermore all related affairs, which are beneficial for the purpose of the

company ..."


Beg your pardon and not to denigrate such companies in general, or especially this one, which I actually
do not know. But it's the kind of business, that often has a bad reputation amongst warbird restorers (private
or from museums) and telling all details about a source may easily collide with the "purpose of the company"
I think. So, it's absolutely ok to use their information as a clue, but it certainly has to be cross-checked at least
once more, than usual.

It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Wurger

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 07:43:01 am »
Jens, of course you are entitled to have your oppinion, especially on a firm that I also don`t know much. As long as the company operated Rainer was nice enough to give hints on his research. Last time I heard he was searching for a "Jagdfliegernest"( Fighters-Nest), an underground hangar storing rocket fighters and meant to catapult them into bomber streams. It was firstly proposed by Hartz from Focke-Achgelis and, apparently, built. One rocket exploded within the premises and killed 20 people, being shut afterwards. If true, it would be something, don`t you agree?
I wouldn`t say it`s a lie or true, I`m only waiting for the evidences to appear. Meanwhile, I wouldn`t rule it out.
 I believe we share the same taste for hard evidence, the only difference is that at first stance I`m a believer and you are a sceptic. At the end, the result is what counts, wheter it proves to be a "positive" or a fake.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 08:39:20 am »
... I`m a believer and you are a sceptic. ...
Well, pincipally right, but I see it as a kind of a "protective function" as especially in the field of the German
WW II technology (not only aviation !), there are a lot of "business men", who don't care for authenticity, but just
for their sales (or sometimes maybe their glory ?). We already have experienced such things a lot of times here,
too. "Secret Nazi aircraft" are much better to sell, than, say British or US projects !
So it's up to us to take care, that this forum isn't abused as a "proof" of the existense of a "secret project" and that's
why I cannot stop my scepticism.  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Wurger

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 10:33:30 am »
Jemiba wrote:

So it's up to us to take care, that this forum isn't abused as a "proof" of the existense of a "secret project" and that's
why I cannot stop my scepticism.  ;)

Please carry on, Jens, our forum needs both perspectives, and your insights are always important. You must recognize, though, that "napkin projects" are abbundant in our forum, and most of them stem not from Germany ;D , but deserve many considerations here.

To add to our knowledge on Focke-Achgelis, according Bogo, they proposed, besides rocket planes, air-torpedos with accustical search heads. I am waitingyears  for this hardware to pop up in book form. We`ll see then...



Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 01:24:59 pm »
"Real" project or not, it's a terrible design.
1) It much too fat and draggy
2) When the onboard rocket fires, the pilot will be "standing." The blood will rush from his head to his feet. He won't be guiding a damn thing if he's passed out.
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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 01:50:55 pm »
I agree, it seems not to be a very practical design. That led to me the assumption,
that it maybe was drawn just after some vague descriptions of a "manned missile".
Reminds me a bit of our good'ol Baron Münchhausen, who had a ride on a cannonball ...
But it wasn't intended as a suicidal weapon ! The pilot quite clearly has a parachute !  ;)
(picture from http://www.collection-rolf-heyne.de/_show_news-2616.html )
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline airman

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 02:03:17 pm »
surely reminds me the arms of "willie the coyote"!! ;D
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Offline moin1900

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 06:03:43 am »
Hi
Here Hitlers Secret Weapons : Fritz-X
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/galleries/episode-nazi-secret-weapons/at/4799_hitlers_secret_weapons-09_04700300-4199/

They also show a 1:1? model of the
Focke-Achgelis P-1 + Blohm&Voss MGRP MISTEL.

Offline Grzesio

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2016, 05:41:29 am »
By the way - I've seen this Fritz X episode some time ago, it's completely rubbish - espetially the Fritz X flight trial.
If one looks closely at the picture, there are AILERONS on upper wings. They built a mockup of a different weight and steering method than the original, dropped it from a different height than Germans did, missed the target and concluded that the bomb could be steered and accurately guided. Geeez, I can learn the same from history books without wasting money for replilcas and silly flight trials...


« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 05:43:10 am by Grzesio »

Offline Hamzalippischh

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 04:15:07 pm »
An attempt at a 3D reconstruction. The dimensions were worked out by comparing with the Me 262 span and the average height of a human. The two methods converged quite well as they both gave a maximum diameter of ~0.83-0.86m

Length : ~4.59m
Span : ~2.67m

The necessity of sight to justify the pilot's presence and the line that can be seen on the medium drawing which limits itself with the fuselage's contour ; meant for me that a canopy was planned.

PS: The model will possibly be 3d printed that's why the surfaces seem oddly thick.
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Offline Hamzalippischh

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 04:47:46 pm »
Two screenshots from "Hitlers Secret Weapons : Fritz-X" found on Youtube shows two instances of the Focke-Achgelis P-1 amongst Holger Bull's 1:1 models collection.

He seems to have took the liberty to put one on top of the BV MGRP and got rid of the inferior rudder to make it fit. A manned AA missile wasn't crazy enough for him already. Is there any document out there to back this up ?
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."
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Offline hesham

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Re: Focke-Achgelis Fa P-1 manned AA rocket
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 06:15:48 am »
Great work my dear Hamza.

Offline moin1900

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Offline hesham

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