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Author Topic: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition  (Read 13065 times)

Offline flateric

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US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« on: May 22, 2007, 05:12:00 am »
Found at NASA Glenn Research Center ImageNet site

Title says VARIABLE STEAM CONTROL ENGINE - MCAIR MCDONNELL AIRCRAFT V/STOL VERTICAL SHORT TAKE OFF LANDING - RI V/STOL - BOEING V/STOL that questions whose stuff it is
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 05:33:02 am by Stargazer2006 »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 01:33:34 am »
I'm well aware we have dozens of posts already in the existing US VSTOL Projects topic, but I want to split that one up a bit. Therefore I'm creating this topic, with an image from NASA Glenn image archives.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 02:21:17 am by Stargazer2006 »
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Offline Jemiba

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 02:06:49 am »
Interesting program which brought up very interesting designs ! Here are 3 more, not
shown in the NASA picture:
- a derivative of the Bell XV-15 
- a General Dynamics propulsion lift wing concept
- a Lockheed four engined/3 fan design
(All from Aviation Week November 1977)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline yasotay

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 02:28:38 pm »
My gosh!  Those were the days; six competing companies for a VTOL program.

Offline GTX

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2009, 02:47:46 pm »

Offline Tailspin Turtle

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2009, 03:24:11 pm »
My gosh!  Those were the days; six competing companies for a VTOL program.

What's more, the illustration doesn't include the Bell Tilt Rotor proposal, which was arguably proven to be the best candidate from a practicality and performance standpoint for Type A V/STOL, at which point the Navy effectively terminated the program.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 03:28:34 pm by Tailspin Turtle »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 06:15:31 pm »
According to my files, here are the identified contenders for the U.S. Navy's "Type A" design competition.

  • Bell D324
  • Boeing unknown designation
  • Boeing 1041-133
  • Boeing 1041-134
  • Grumman G-698
  • General Dynamics 310
  • General Dynamics A-311
  • Lockheed unknown designation (2 variants)
  • McDonnell Douglas 260
  • McDonnell Douglas 260R
  • McDonnell Douglas 276
  • Rockwell NA-420
  • Rockwell NA-430
  • Rockwell NA-431
  • Vought V-530 (2 tail configurations)
  • Vought V-534
  • Vought V-537
Attached are two little diagrams that show the main contenders and complement the one overscan posted at the beginning of this thread.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 02:17:16 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 07:02:20 am »
Here's what was probably the primary Sikorsky response to the Type A requirement. Ultimately was not officially submitted.
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Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 01:47:45 pm »
A bit more on the USN Type A, and the related Type B and Type C requirements can be found in this 1980 Rand report, primarily on pages 14 & 15, although there are other little tibbits throughout the document (note: search function doesn't work for body text, so you'll have to go through it the hard way!).
 
By the way, there's a few paragraphs on the Rockwell XFV-12A (page 43), as well as mention of certain other programs.
 
Another separate little tibbit. In at least one related study, the Type A was also referred to as the 'Projected Future Tactical Aircraft'.
 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 02:20:45 am by Stargazer2006 »
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Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 11:05:41 am »
A fair bit of info on the Vought primary submission for the Type A requirement, the V-530, as well as it's STOL Attack twin (also referred to as a CTOL baseline), the V-534, can be found throughout this thread. Also in the thread, among other things, is data on Vought's Type B proposals and related work.
 
Here's a chart borrowed from another thread on a possible Micro S-3 variant:
 
 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 11:47:36 am by Grey Havoc »
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Offline Tailspin Turtle

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2011, 05:45:27 am »
One of the more unreasonable requirements for the V/STOL Type A was that it be operable from the DD-963 Spruance-class destroyer and fit in the hangar (which was designed to hold two LAMPS MkIIIs, if I remember correctly). This is a fairly large model of the helipad and hangar of this ship.

The "powered-lift" contenders tried desperately to kill the tiltrotor as a candidate. One of the features that was condemned as a drawback was the benefit of ground effect on rotor thrust. The knock was that one rotor would lose lift as it moved off the deck, causing a loss of roll control. This demonstrated either mendacity or a complete lack of understanding of the aerodynamics involved. The tiltrotor uses differential collective for roll control. Collective is very responsive and with the thrust out at the wingtips, roll control is excellent.

In response to the criticism, Bell built a simulator about the size of half a ping-pong table for trade shows which featured a flying tiltrotor model powered by two electric motors turning fixed-pitch propellers; varying the motor rpm varied thrust. The controls provided were collective (vertical thrust) and roll (differential thrust). It could be flown onto and off of a model of the aft end of a DD-963 by anybody with a minute or two of practice. Although not strictly speaking a valid engineering demonstration, it effectively put an end to the prattle about deck-edge effect.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 05:39:28 am »
After several merges and splits in the past, this topic is now reserved for discussions and sharing about the US Navy's "Type A" program as a whole or to submit unidentified or ill-documented contenders.

Please post info and pictures about specific design in one of these specific posts:
  • Grumman G-698 V/STOL (US Navy "Type A" proposal) [link]
  • Bell D321 and D324 V/STOL (US Navy "Type A" proposals) [link]
  • Rockwell NA-430 and NA-431 (US Navy "Type A" proposals) [link]
  • Boeing Model 1041 and other V/STOL "Type A" proposals [link]
  • McDonnell Douglas Model 276 V/STOL (US Navy "Type A" proposal) [link]
  • Lockheed V/STOL (US Navy "Type A" proposal) [link]
  • Lockheed "Micro" S-3 Viking variant (US Navy "Type A" proposal) [link]
  • Vought (LTV) V-530 and V-534 (US Navy "Type A" proposals) [link]
  • General Dynamics A-310/A-311 V/STOL (US Navy "Type A" proposals) [link]
Thanks a lot!  ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 01:39:58 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 12:56:18 am »
In a Vought report describing also the Vought V-530, a second "Type A" proposal is described (presumably also a Vought study).

Quote
Description of Tilt Nacelle Aircraft

This V/STOL aircraft uses two propulsive nacelles mounted such that total (or effective) thrust in the V-Mode acts through the aircraft C.G. Each propulsive nacelle contains a turboshaft engine driving a high-by-pass ratio fan. The nacelles tilt through an arc of 100.

The moderately high aspect ratio wing is mounted low on the fuselage with the inboard trailing edge section cut out for the tilting nacelle.

The conventional fuselage size and shape is determined by the requirements of crew, equipment, fuel volume, and support for wing, surfaces, nacelles, and alighting gear attachments.

The wide stance main gear is mounted in pods extending aft from the wing structural box to satisfy tip-over and tip-back considerations. The nose gear mounts and retracts into the fuselage.

In aerodynamic forward flight control is from conventional surfaces; ailerons for roll, elevators for pitch, and the rudder for directional. In thrust supported flight, control in all three axis is obtained as follows:
  • Roll Variable inlet guide vanes on each fan allow modulating the thrust differentially between left and right fan thrust.
  • Pitch and yaw Fore and aft reaction nozzles whose thrust is provided by continuous bleed air from the two engines.
A general arrangement of this aircraft is shown in Figure 8. Propulsion system characteristics are presented in Figure 9 and the drive system is shown schematically in Figure 10 with a list of the main propulsion components.

Source: V/STOL Aircraft Design Sensitivity To Flying Qualities Criteria Study - Mid-term Report (Vought Corporation, 28 September 1979)

Offline Harrier

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2012, 01:32:38 am »
The UK also put up some designs, with Hawker Siddeley/BAe Hatfield taking the lead. Pics attached.
 
Config 1 3 Pegasus (one in fuselage) with RCS + control fans
Config 2 2 RB.193 and 4 x XJ.99
Config 3 6 RB.202 lift fans, two of which pivoted for lift/cruise
Config 4 used 4 turboshafts to drive fan via gearbox, with two reverse mounted in booms
 
Ref AHS Paper:
 
UK V/STOL Transport Aircraft Concepts of the 20th Century
Michael J. Pryce
Michael J. Hirschberg

 
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline VTOLicious

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Re: US Navy "V/STOL Type A" competition
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 01:01:46 pm »
Discovered at the Ames Research Center Image Libary:

2 high res. pics of a multi mission lift-cruise fan model in the 40x80ft wind tunnel!...apparently a McDonnell Douglas 260.

https://ia600409.us.archive.org/3/items/AILS_AC76-1060/AC76-1060.jpg
https://ia600502.us.archive.org/12/items/AILS_AC76-1061/AC76-1061.jpg

Enjoy!