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Author Topic: Avions Marcel Dassault (MD) designations  (Read 37333 times)

Offline dan_inbox

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Avions Marcel Dassault (MD) designations
« on: February 16, 2007, 09:52:53 pm »
Dassault models used to have "MD" designators

MD-450 Ouragan
MD-452 Mystere
MD-454 Mystere IV
MD-550 Mystere Delta, later Mirage.

What are the numbers for Super Mystère B.2 and B.4 ?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 05:17:07 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2007, 02:26:59 am »
Don't forget MD-451 and MD-453, the nightfighter variants of the Ouragan (MD-450) and Mystere II (MD-452).
I'll browse cuny's bible to see what number would have had the SMB-2... it must have been MD-456, but I think this designation system had been dropped circa 1954 (the SMB-1 flew in march 1955).

Au fait...
the SMB-1 had an Avon engine. first flight March 1955.
the SMB-2 was modified with an Atar-101. February 1956.

The SMB-4 had the Atar-9, and flew in March 1958.

But what the hell was the Super Mystere B3 ?  ;D
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Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2007, 08:21:19 am »
Quote from: Archibald
But what the hell was the Super Mystere B3 ?  ;D

A night/all weather version?

Offline hesham

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2007, 09:08:04 am »
Hi,

What was MD-456 ?.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 09:12:18 am by hesham »

Offline Sandy22

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2007, 11:54:10 am »
Hello, this is my first post in this forum (however, here I've found several old friends).
I have the following list of MD. designations:
MD.303      (MD.303)   
MD.311      Flamant III (MD.311)   
MD.312      Flamant II (MD.312)   
MD.315      Flamant I (MD.315)   
MD.320      Hirondelle (MD.320)   
MD.410      Spirale (MD.410)   
MD.415      Communauté (MD.415)   
MD.450      Ouragan (MD.450)   
MD.451      Aladin (MD.451)   
MD.452      Mystère (MD.452/MD.453/454/460)   Mystère II
MD.453      Mystère (MD.452/MD.453/454/460)   Mystère IIIN
MD.454      Mystère (MD.452/MD.453/454/460)   Mystère IV
MD.460      Mystère (MD.452/MD.453/454/460)   Mystère I
MD.550      Mirage I (MD.550)   
MD.620      (MD.620) missile
MD.650      (MD.650)
MD.700      (MD.700)

No MD. number for Super Mystère...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 10:55:24 am by Sandy22 »
Ciao from Italy :)

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2007, 12:08:40 pm »
Welcome, Sandy 22 !

some additions:
MD.80  ABC  (single engined trainer )
MD.316 (MB.316X and T)
MD.430  (twin engined COIN)
MD.560  (delta wing fighter)
MD.610  Cavalier
MD.620  (STOL fighter bomber)
MD.630  Cavalier STOL
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2007, 01:32:11 pm »
My dear Jemiba,

what was MD-650 ?,it was mentioned in that site with no explaination;
http://www.mda.org.uk/aircraft/5444.htm

Offline Sandy22

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2007, 02:12:22 pm »
About Cavalier MD.610/620/630 see this site: http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/dassault/index.html
(I found it after Jemiba's post mentioning Cavalier ...)

On the other hand, I had some references quoting that the Israeli missile Jericho was based on a Dassault design (quoted as MD.620).

It's known that before WW.2 the aircraft designed by Marcel Bloch were numbered in a MB. series.
After the war, Marcel Bloch changed his surname to Dassault and, accordingly, new designs got the prefix MD., keeping the same numbering sequence (so I'm a little puzzled about MD.80 ...)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 10:55:46 am by Sandy22 »
Ciao from Italy :)

Offline Deltafan

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2007, 06:40:28 pm »
I lost my post with my addenda  >:(  :'(  :P

Very quickly :

First flight of the MD.80 ABC : 16/10/1950
There is 5 "Cavaliers" in the Dassault story : 610, 620, 630, another STOL and a concurrent (but not the MD.921/922) of the SEPECAT Jaguar

MD.417     (MD.430 with 2 x turboprops Bastan)
MD.500     (1948/9 : design, 4 x Nene jet engines, transport)
MD.560     (1953 : design, 1 x ATAR 101 G engine, delta fighter)
MD.600     (1948/9 : design, 4 x G&R 14R engines, transport)
MD.620(1) "Cavalier" STOL (study 1959/60)
MD.620(2) "Jericho" Missile (first fly : 01/02/1965)
MD.650(1) (1948/9 : design, 4 x G&R 14R engines, transport)
MD.650(2) (1952 : design, 1 x Avon or SNECMA Vulcain jet engine, delta fighter)
MD.800(1) (1948/9 : design, 4 x RR Dart turboprops, transport)
MD.800(2) (1964 : design, bi-engine, naval, VG for the NATO marines)
MD.900     (1951 : design, 3/2 x ATAR jet engines, transport)   
MD.921     (1964 : design with the MD.922, bi-engine, VG, concurrent of the SEPECAT Jaguar)
MD.922     (1964 : design with the MD.921, bi-engine, VG, concurrent of the SEPECAT Jaguar)
MD.1020 R (1946 : design, 2 x G&R 14R engines, transport)

With the Cavaliers, MD.620, MD.650 and MD.800 (and later with the Mirages F-1 E) we can see that Dassault used sometimes the same designations for differents planes.

For Archibald : in "Dassault les programmes 1945-1995" page 148 there is a photo of an almost finished mock-up of a "Mirage F3 02"  :o
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 06:44:01 pm by Deltafan »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2007, 12:40:35 am »
"so I'm a little puzzled about MD.80 .."
The MD.80 was a contender to the Nord 2800 and the winning Morane MS.730/732.
It was a time, when you already could say "Marcel Bloch is dead, long live Marcel Dassault !"
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2007, 02:27:41 am »
Yep, one of the Cavalier and the  Israeli IRBM have the same designation, MD-620. Very odd...  ???

The Jericho missiles were designed by Dassault, that's a proven fact  ;). All the programme was kept highly secret, as was french help in building Israel nuclear program...


In fact Dassault aircraft of the 50's were named from 3 series

- the MD- serie
- the Mystere serie + Roman number (XX for example).
- The name "Super Mystere"

The Super Mystere become the  MD-454 AkA then the Mystere IV !
 Its the only aircraft which has  name in each three categories...

Seems that there was close links between the SMB-2 and early  Etendards and Mirages...  ;)



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Offline Jemiba

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2007, 03:02:56 am »
Was just searching for the Jericho, found a drawing, but no other designation.
But here's another MD. designation, MD. SA 100, a ground-to-air missile  .
(from Carlier/Berger: "Dassault - 50 Years of Aeronautical Adventure 1945-1995" )
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2007, 06:51:50 am »
The first Etendard was the -II. It had two Gabizo engine and a fuselage similar to...the Mirage II, plus the wing of the SMB-2 !  :o
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Offline elmayerle

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2007, 10:41:32 am »
About Cavalier MD.610/620/630 see this site: http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/dassault/index.html
(I found it after Jemiba's post mentioning Cavalier ...)

On the other hand, I had some references quoting that the Israeli missile Jericho was based on a Dassault design (quoted as MD.620).

It's known that before WW.2 the aircraft designed by Marcel Bloch were numbered in a MB. series.
After the war, Marcel Bloch changed his surname to Dassault and, accordingly, new designs got the prefix MD., keeping the same numbering sequence (so I'm a little puzzled about MD.80 ...)

Ciao from Italy.

As I understand it, after WW II, Marcel Bloch changed his name to honor his brother who had fought in the Resistance during the war.  His brother had been an officer in the French Army before the war and was well known for his advocacy of more modern tank warfare concepts.  Apparently sufficiently so that when his brother went underground, his code name was the French term for "tank", Char D'Assault.  And that's where the Dassault name came from.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2007, 10:58:53 am »
Exactly exact!  ;)
In fact its brother (Darius Bloch) followed De Gaulle to London. At the time, its nickname was "chardasso". He then changed it into Dassault... and Marcel found the idea excellent, andadopted the name, too.
(I browsed chardasso on Google and found this
http://www.denistouret.net/textes/Assouline.html )
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