Register here

Author Topic: F-4E(S) & F-4X  (Read 38601 times)

Offline shockonlip

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 605
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2010, 02:22:38 am »
Thanks!  Great enhancement to my animal-husbandry-graduate-level understanding of PCC.

I suspect the answer to the question "what happens if the water runs out at those speeds?" is "you really, really don't want to find out."

>Thanks!  Great enhancement to my animal-husbandry-graduate-level understanding of PCC.
OK, too much detail! It actually helps me understand it better myself to teach it to
someone, so sorry I targeted you!

>I suspect the answer to the question "what happens if the water runs out at those speeds?" is "you >really, really don't want to find out."
Agreed, but the guys designing it want to find out so the pilot doesn't have to!
There will be other transients one has to watch out for as well, like an inlet
unstart. It would actually be interesting to find out. If the altitude is high
and dynamic pressure lower than denser altitude, it may help.

Offline sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 10563
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2010, 05:42:56 am »
Tommy Thomason's book talks about Vought's plans for PCC on their XF8U-3 to get it up to Mach 2.9  :o  

(BTW, lots of interesting info in that book that I hadn't seen before.  Definitely want to buy it if you've ever been interested in the XF8U-3.)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 06:40:55 am by sferrin »
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline shockonlip

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 605
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2010, 11:38:47 am »
Tommy Thomason's book talks about Vought's plans for PCC on their XF8U-3 to get it up to Mach 2.9  :o  

(BTW, lots of interesting info in that book that I hadn't seen before.  Definitely want to buy it if you've ever been interested in the XF8U-3.)

Thanks for the heads-up!

Yes, I have Tommy's XF8U-3 book, and enjoy it a lot!
Including the short discussion of the what might have beens on J58 powered XF8U's!
Another hot rodding project for the future! The XF8U-4 !!

Offline shockonlip

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 605
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2010, 02:27:42 pm »
fightingirish wrote, trying to determine the source of the photos F-4X 01, F-4X 02, and F-4X 03:
>Original picture source might be the book "McDonnell F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies" by Jon Lake & >David Donald, Aerospace Publishing / Airtime Publishing; Enlarged 2nd edition (October 1, 2002)

Thanks fightingirish for your attempts at find out the sources for these photos.

I was able to procure a copy of "McDonnell F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies" Updated and Expanded
Edition, 2002. Although photo F-4X 01 is there (pg 181) (and I might add due to the quality of the
photo in the book (not the online copies however) one can see the tip of the PCC capable intake or
maybe it is the conformal water tank - I vote for tip of the inlet) on the other side of the airplane.
And photo F-4X 02 is on pg 204, I do NOT see photo F-4X 03 in the 2002 edition. I would expect there
are some nice photos of the starboard side of 69-7576 as modified as a F-4X model in existence
somewhere. This is just a heads up so you don't buy the 2002 edition expecting to see find F-4X 03.

Offline fightingirish

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2011
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2012, 05:34:02 am »
The Mach 3 Phantom
at the blog "Aviation Trivia of the Day" from JP Santiago  :)
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Avatar:
McDonnell Douglas Model 225 painting by "The Artist" Michael Burke (Tavush) 2018, found at deviantart.com and at Secret Projects Forum » Research Topics » User Artwork » McDonnell Douglas Model 225 Painting

Offline fightingirish

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2011
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2014, 02:34:23 am »
RF-4X Recce Platform
Quote
The RF-4X was a General Dynamics proposal for an advanced derivative of the F-4E Phantom II. This effort began as a joint Israel-US Air Force design for a photoreconnaissance aircraft capable of Mach 3+ dash speeds at an altitude of 78,000 feet.

Artist concept by George Grant         Posted: 12 June 2014

Source: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/gallery_slideshow.html?item_id=3406


Edit 1:
The David Star on the backboard wing has been airbrushed away.
See also OBB's post #26. That artist concept looks like it is also done by George Grant.

Edit 2: 
Updated caption.
Quote
The RF-4X, also known as the RF-4ES, was a General Dynamics response to an Israeli government RFP calling for a high-speed, high-altitude photoreconnaissance platform based on the McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantom II. Following RF-4X concept definition during 1972, a contract was issued in 1974 calling for the modification of three operational IAF F-4Es to the new configuration. Specifications called for a maximum cruising speed of 2.4 Mach at 78,000 feet while carrying a single General Dynamics-developed high-altitude aerial camera with a sixty-six inch focal length offering stepped, side-to-side image capture.

Artist concept by George Grant.       Posted: 12 June 2014
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:13:05 pm by fightingirish »
Slán,
fightingirish

Slán ist an Irish Gaelic word for Goodbye.  :)

Avatar:
McDonnell Douglas Model 225 painting by "The Artist" Michael Burke (Tavush) 2018, found at deviantart.com and at Secret Projects Forum » Research Topics » User Artwork » McDonnell Douglas Model 225 Painting

Offline TeddySalad

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • **
  • Posts: 56
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2014, 11:41:10 am »
We just updated the caption….


--Code One

Offline shablul7

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 5
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2015, 04:46:30 pm »
taxiing out of it's shelter

Offline dan_inbox

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 415
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2015, 01:06:37 am »
How fitting: Shablul posting a Shablul   ;D

Offline sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 10563
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2018, 09:43:41 pm »
It doesn't look like this has been posted yet.

https://www.nas.nasa.gov/assets/pdf/papers/Mehta_U_February2015.pdf

Water injection pre-compressor cooling assist space access
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1878
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2018, 10:47:03 pm »
It doesn't look like this has been posted yet.

https://www.nas.nasa.gov/assets/pdf/papers/Mehta_U_February2015.pdf

Water injection pre-compressor cooling assist space access

Very interesting study. Could make for a nice cubesat launcher. Fast reponse, partially reusable.
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Offline sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 10563
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2018, 06:12:15 am »
It doesn't look like this has been posted yet.

https://www.nas.nasa.gov/assets/pdf/papers/Mehta_U_February2015.pdf

Water injection pre-compressor cooling assist space access

Very interesting study. Could make for a nice cubesat launcher. Fast reponse, partially reusable.

RASCAL seemed to be a purpose-built design using this technology for doing just that.  Don't know why they didn't do it as the technology is old.  (Skyburner used it as did the Mig-25 when the USSR went after the time-to-altitude records.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1878
Re: F-4E(S) & F-4X
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2018, 10:32:19 am »
Because for the last 60 years, RLV programs in the United States have thrieved, then died, then started again, hundreds of time, with similar ideas forgotten, then discovered again, then forgotten. Rince, repeat. MIPCC is indeed quite an interesting technology.
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php