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Author Topic: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)  (Read 18244 times)

Offline Skyblazer

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SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« on: April 19, 2011, 08:23:59 am »
SNCAC, the Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Centre, sometimes known as Aérocentre, was a French aircraft manufacturer created by the nationalisation of the Farman Aviation Works and Hanriot firms in 1936. It was liquidated after World War II, with assets distributed between other nationalised firms SNCAN, SNCASO, and SNECMA in 1949. (source: Wikipedia).

Here is a list of known SNCAC designations. It will be expanded and updated as we go along. Feel free to add or correct if you will!

NC 110  four-engined high-altitude bomber designed to meet the A20 programme requirements of 1937 (not built)

NC 130  high-altitude military research aircraft

NC 140  stratospheric bomber project

NC 150  twin-fin test aircraft
NC 151  proposed version of NC 150
NC 152  proposed version of NC 150
NC 153  proposed version of NC 150

NC 160  heavy single-seat fighter with two engines and coaxial propellers

NC 200 (1)  last French prop-driven two-seater fighter project
NC 200 (2)  heavy bomber

NC 210  heavy transport project  with Gnôme Rhône GR18 engines & tailwheel undercarriage that led to the Cormoran
NC 211 Cormoran with Gnôme Rhône GR14R engines & tricycle undercarriage (2 prototypes)
NC 212  Cormoran project with Bristol Hercules engines.
NC 213  Cormoran project with Junkers Jumo 213 engines. Construction of prototype/pre-production aircraft abandoned.

NC 2230  (formerly the Farman F.223)
NC 2231  (formerly the Farman F.223.1) long-distance bomber/mail plane prototype used for distance record-breaking
NC 2233  (formerly the Farman F.223.3) night bomber (10 built)
NC 2234  (formerly the Farman F.223.4) trans-Atlantic mail plane (3 built)

NC 230  training aircraft (formerly the Hanriot H.230)
NC 232.2  production version of the Hanriot H.232 advanced trainer which flew for the first time in June 1937 (57 built)

NC 260  jet interceptor project powered by a Turbomeca engine (not built)

NC 270  bomber, never completed (one built)
NC 271  flying sub-scale models of NC 271, one glider and one rocket-powered (2 built)

NC 290  proposal for a 60 passenger transport dated March 1949 (not built)

NC 300  was three-engined high wing transport aircraft project

NC 410  twin-float seaplane (Farman design)

NC 420  seaplane

NC 433

NC 470  twin-float seaplane (Farman design)

NC 471

NC 510  twin-fin aircraft (Hanriot design)
NC 510M
NC 511  development of NC 510
NC 513  development of NC 510

NC 530  (Hanriot design)

NC 540  development of NC 510 with retractable landing gear

NC 550  development of NC 510 which was not built

NC 600  heavy fighter (former Hanriot H.220)

NC 700  same as Siebel Si 204D with Argus engines
NC 701  Martinet with Renault engines
NC 702  Martinet with Renault engines

NC 800  Le Cab civilian light aircraft/fast light transport with coaxial propellers

NC 830  design which led to the Chardonneret
NC 832

NC 840  Chardonneret
NC 841  Chardonneret

NC 850  side-by-side single-fin two-seater with Mathis engine (1 built)
NC 851  same as above with Mignier 4DA-28 engine (1 built)
NC 852  same as above with Régnier engine (1 built + conversion of NC 851)
NC 853  version with Mignier 4DC-30 engine
NC 853S
NC 854  version with Continental A-65 engine; became the Nord NC 854
NC 855  version with 75 hp Praga-D engine; became the Nord NC 855
NC 856  version with 105 hp Walter Minor 4.11W engine; developed into the Nord NC 856A
NC 858  version with Continental C90-12F engine; ; became the Nord NC 858
NC 859

NC 860

NC 900  (= Focke-Wulf Fw 190)

NC 1070
NC 1071
NC 1072  twin-jet fighter based on the NC.1071

NC 1080  (Nieuport) > Nord

NC 1100

NC 2000  early project for Abeille (designation unconfirmed)
NC 2001  Abeille
NC 2002  Abeille, enlarged version for search & rescue

NC 3020  unconfirmed designation for SO 3020
NC 3021  Belphégor development of SO 3020



A great link: http://www.aviafrance.com/constructeur.php?ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=1141
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 09:19:45 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 08:37:37 am »
NC.140 - "project"
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline Jemiba

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 11:03:20 am »
-  NC.1072 : twin-jet fighter, based on the NC.1071
-  NC.210  : Heavy transport project, that led to the NC.211 Cormoran
-  NC.2002: Enlarged 2001 for SAR

   Do you have some details about the NC.2000 Abeille ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-) - Cormorans......
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 11:34:35 am »
NC.210 Cormoran "project" -original large design with Gnôme Rhône GR18 engines & tailwheel undercarriage.
NC.211 Cormoran - not a "project" as two examples were completed and flown. Gnôme Rhône GR14R engines & tricycle undercarriage.
NC.212 Cormoran "project" - with Bristol Hercules engines.
NC.213 Cormoran "project" - with Junkers Jumo 213 engines. Construction of prototype/pre-production aircraft abandoned.
A "project" for Pratt & Whitney R2000 powered version was not given a model number......
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:48:54 am by Caravellarella »
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline boxkite

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 02:43:07 pm »
The only two additions I can find for the moment:

  • NC.260 - SOURCE: Cuny/Docavia # 28, page 50
  • NC.290 - SOURCE: Caravelle - la francaise de la jet set by John Wegg, page 26

Really good job, Stéphane! I'm keen on seeing your lists of other French manufacturers (e.g. Hurel-Dubois and Sud Ouest)  :) .
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 02:44:47 pm by boxkite »

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 02:54:42 pm »
NC.223.1 - Formerly the Farman F.223.1 - Long-distance bomber/mail plane prototype used for distance record-breaking.
NC.223.3 - Formerly the Farman F.223.3 - Night Bomber - 10 built.
NC.223.4 - Formerly the Farman F.223.4 - Trans-atlantic mail plane - 3 built.
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 02:59:26 pm »
NC.800 Cab - "project" for a grand tourisme light aircraft/fast light transport
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 03:16:40 pm »
Thanks folks. I have updated the list accordingly and will soon add descriptions to the types in the same way I did for the SNCASE list.

Offline Caravellarella

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 03:28:25 pm »
Thank you for all of this Stéphane. Do you expect us to differentiate between "real" aircraft and unbuilt "projects" going forward?

Best, Terry (Caravellarella)
Because L'ORÉAL keeps telling me I'm worth it......
I can scarcely contain my indifference......
Maybe it's MAYBELLINE......
Vamp till ready......
RIMMEL; get the London Look......

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 03:59:11 pm »
From my files:

After World War II the designation letters N.C. were followed by four numbers; the first one for the plant or centre concerned; the second for the type of the aircraft and the last two for the variant.

NC.110: Four engined high altitude bomber designed to meet the A20 programme requirements of 1937. It was not built.
NC.151, NC.152, NC.153: Proposed versions of N.C.150.
NC.232: Production version of the Hanriot H.232 advanced trainer which flew for the first time in June 1937.  57 were built.
NC.290: A March 1949 proposal for a 60 passenger transport which was not built.
NC.511: Development of N.C.510.
NC.513: Development of N.C.510.
NC.540: Development of N.C.510 but with retractable landing gear.
NC.550: Development of N.C.510 which was not built.
NC.3020


Offline Skyblazer

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 05:46:37 pm »
Thanks Jos! I've updated the list with your information.

Terry, I intend to mention the number built for each type, therefore "not built" should automatically indicate which of the projects remained... well... projects!

I have decided that the use of the dot (.) or the hyphen (-) between the letter prefix and the model number was not always coherent according to the various sources and prefer to simply leave a space, as this form is also commonly used.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2011, 06:03:26 am »
Hi,

NC.130 was high-altitude military research aircraft.
NC.260 was a project for jet inercopter powered by Turbomeca
           engine.
NC.300 was three-engined high wing transport aircraft project.

Offline toura

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2011, 06:32:48 am »
Hi Jens
Just a little thing

Offline toura

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2011, 06:48:50 am »
JENS

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 07:40:30 am »
Paul, Jens was asking about the "NC 2000" designation, which I once found but have no confirmation of.

Offline toura

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2011, 08:42:59 am »
Hi Stephan and Jens
Sorry, I don't know nc 2000 !!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2011, 11:53:02 am »
Well, nevertheless thanks for the photo with the spatted wheels, this version
is quite rare to find.
The designation "NC.2000" would be a logical choice, I think, keeping in mind
the often used French system of allocating just the next number of a sequence
for a new version, with the full hundred or thousand for the first or basic version.
Only problem is, that this system rarely was used without exceptions !
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2011, 04:50:40 pm »
Hi,

NC.130 was high-altitude military research aircraft.
NC.260 was a project for jet inercopter powered by Turbomeca
           engine.
NC.300 was three-engined high wing transport aircraft project.

Also;

NC.1075; http://cmeunier.chez-alice.fr/Fg_7.pdf
NC.861 was a version of NC.860 (not sure).

Offline Tomac

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2012, 07:38:56 am »
I came across this article in an October "Popular Aviation" that might go along with this discussion. Does anyone have any more particulars?
 
Regards,
John Braungart

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2012, 04:49:10 pm »
I came across this article in an October "Popular Aviation" that might go along with this discussion. Does anyone have any more particulars?
 
Regards,
John Braungart


It was Farman F.1000 research aircraft.


NC.280 and NC.281 four engined mail airplane projects are here;


http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15924.30.html

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2013, 11:44:06 am »
From the book Nieuport 1909-1950:
- NC.1100 was a target pilotless aircraft with retractable rotor for landing
- NC.1110 was a tugged target glider, at least three built
From the Trait d'Union special issue on René Dorand:
- NC.2000 not mentioned
- NC.2002 was called Libellule, not Abeille, at least one was built
- NC.2003 was a simplified and lightened version, not built as all the following
- NC.2041 transport helicopter, two 14M engines
- NC.2042 transport helicopter, two 12S
- NC.2051 single-seat helicopter, one Mathis G4F
- NC.2201/2202 rotor parachute for torpedo
- NC.2210, other name for the NC.1100 target aircraft with rotor parachute
- NC.2220 rotor parachute for trooper
- NC.2230 rotor parachute for jeep or small vehicle
- NC.2240 rotor parachute for tank
- NC.2250 rotor parachute for container
- NC.2260 rotor parachute for tank
- NC.2411 single-seat helicopter, jet rotor
- NC.2420 crane helicopter, jet rotor, also with transport variant
- NC.2451 single-seat helicopter, jet rotor
- NC.2480 convertible with two-blade turbojet rotor transformed into propelling wings (!)
- NC.2490 target helicopter with turbojet rotor

Several numbers end with digit 1 instead of 0, either there is information missing or this was a habit at SNCAC helicopter division. So maybe there was no NC.2000 after all.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2013, 03:17:39 pm »
Great Info my dear C460,thank you for sharing.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2013, 11:01:13 am »
In an InterAvia article I once found an article by René Dorand, describing the development
of the NC.2001. He mentioned, that for testing two interchangeable tail/tail plane versions
shoud be build. A short one, with the tailplane and fins in the downwash and a longer one.
Drawings show the version with the short tail as NC.2001 and with the long tail as NC.2002.
So, maybe both versions actually were the same aircraft, but still yet I've never found a
photographic evidence of the long tailed version.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 09:19:42 am »
Here is a picture of the NC.2002. The text is not very clear. It says that there were two NC.2001, and that an NC.2002 rescue version was planned. It does not say if it was a third different craft, or if it flew.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 10:05:02 am »
Marvelous my dear C460,thank you.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 12:04:59 pm »
That's the first new photo of that aircraft, I've seen for years, many thanks.
The main landing gear looks like that of the first prototype, with its undivided
axis. Maybe the story about the interchangeable tail is correct ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2013, 06:50:39 am »
Some fabulous additions to this topic lately. Thanks a lot, c460!

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2013, 10:33:20 am »
Here is a picture of the NC.2002. The text is not very clear. It says that there were two NC.2001, and that an NC.2002 rescue version was planned. It does not say if it was a third different craft, or if it flew.


My dear C460,


anther pictures to SNCAC NC.2002.


http://kulturserver-nds.de/home/hubtest/medien/Neg.Nr.GUN.pdf

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2013, 11:12:03 am »
Thank you Hesham.
But these are the regular NC.2001, with short tail.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2013, 07:34:33 am »
Hi,


NC.282  was mail aircraft project,based on NC.280.
NC.214  was a project,derivative of NC.211 Cormoran.
NC.2234  was cargo-transport,may be light aircraft project,no details.
NC.3500  was a missile,became SNCASE SE.4100.
NC.3501  was a missile.
NC.3510  -------?.


http://www.vignaud.org/Gestion_BD/Recherche.php

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2013, 01:16:41 pm »
NC.2234  was cargo-transport,may be light aircraft project,no details.

 
NC 2230(formerly the Farman F.223)
NC 2231(formerly the Farman F.223.1) long-distance bomber/mail plane prototype used for distance record-breaking
NC 2233(formerly the Farman F.223.3) night bomber (10 built)
NC 2234(formerly the Farman F.223.4) trans-Atlantic mail plane (3 built)

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2013, 03:09:27 pm »


 
NC 2230(formerly the Farman F.223)
NC 2231(formerly the Farman F.223.1) long-distance bomber/mail plane prototype used for distance record-breaking
NC 2233(formerly the Farman F.223.3) night bomber (10 built)
NC 2234(formerly the Farman F.223.4) trans-Atlantic mail plane (3 built)


Of course I know that series very well,


I think that's not the author means,he means the aircraft or project after WW2,because he
didn't write anything after NC.2234,except Cargo/Transport,without any description,and we
know the old designation (NC.2234) was very famous aircraft.

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2014, 05:30:41 am »
NC.3500  was a missile,became SNCASE SE.4100.
NC.3501  was a missile.
NC.3510  -------?.

NC.3510 became the SE.4200 ramjet-powered missile.
Source: http://www.cannes-aero-patrimoine.net/pdf/pub/caspk_APADH__005_Jung_His_Cannes.pdf

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2014, 02:02:18 pm »
Thank you my dear Adrien for this Info.

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2014, 01:51:49 am »
In the same document, the NC.3511 is described as a project with flattened air intakes, that was not built because the NC.3510 with round intakes was preferred.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2014, 03:41:53 am »
Good info my dear Adrien.

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2015, 08:18:01 am »
NC 160  heavy single-seat fighter with two engines and coaxial propellers

The NC.160 was a dive bomber project, designed by Deteix and Le Muhot.

There was also a NC.170 of unknown specification that became the SO.3000, and a NC.180/181 transport plane with two Hispano 12 Z engines, that became the SO.3010. Both projects were designed by the ex-Farman team led by Marcel Roca. The projects were renamed when the design teams moved to Cannes under SNCASO administration.

The source for all this is an article by Philippe Ricco in Avions no.207 (Sep. 2015) about the NC.3021 Belphegor, which shows a picture of a windtunnel model of the NC.160, and drawings of windtunnel models of the SO.3000/3010/3020.

In Le Fana no.389 (Apr. 2002), Michel Borget says that the SO.3020 was originally called NC.190, but Philippe Ricco does not mention this in his more recent article.

Offline c460

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2015, 08:23:59 am »
NC 3020  unconfirmed designation for SO 3020
NC 3021  Belphégor development of SO 3020
I'm convinced that the name NC.3020 was not used.
In the article in Avions no.207, there is a reproduction of an original document which describes how the SO.3020 project with twin Hispano 12 Z, whose construction had started during the war, was modified with DB.610 engine and renamed NC.3021 in the same move.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2015, 01:36:07 pm »
My dear Adrien,

it's so weird,the NC.160 as a heavy fighter project,maybe called dive bomber/heavy
combat aircraft.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 03:57:10 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2018, 05:07:50 am »
Hi,

also NC-3511 was a missile.

Offline hesham

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Re: SNCAC / Aérocentre designations (NC-)
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2019, 04:54:25 am »
From JAWA 1947,

very strange,they mentioned NC.260 as a commercial aircraft,but we know it was
an jet interceptor ?.