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Author Topic: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23  (Read 469451 times)

Offline Matej

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2007, 02:29:07 am »
F-22 is killing (nearly) F-23 once again. How an irony!  :D   :'(

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Offline Archibald

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2007, 03:54:09 am »
Ciel, Ogami toi ici ? Mon dieu... welcome here !!!  :D
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2007, 12:21:46 pm »
As Western Museum of Flight said, Northrop will not return PAV-2 to the WMOF...
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2007, 12:29:36 pm »
So is Northrop-Grumman keeping it, doing with it what they will (which is not encouraging given their track record), or is it going to another museum?

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2007, 08:50:41 am »
Dunno, Evan, in your position I'd better ask you than you me:)...'restoration' said to be completed as far as on late summer 2005 - here some pics posted by ximeno at F-16.net
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3010&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=yf23&start=75
What this restoration colud be - saving PAV-2 from uncertain future of WMOF that lost it's place in Hawthorne or adding plywood nose section for it to represent temporaly FB-23 RTA bird for showcase to AF generals (very sceptic of the last idea in era of CGI) - is still mystery for me.




« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 10:22:59 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Online SOC

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2007, 12:51:44 pm »
So is Northrop-Grumman keeping it, doing with it what they will (which is not encouraging given their track record), or is it going to another museum?

I don't know, they might have something involving flight testing in mind, the restored jet appears to have an ejection seat in the cockpit.  Just random speculation on my part, the jet looks no-BS fully restored.

Elmayerle, maybe you can shed some light on another YF-23 issue.  Check out the following coordinates in Google Earth:  lat 33.541418°, lon -106.210667°  WTF is a YF-23 doing way out there north of White Sands?

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2007, 01:51:09 pm »
This is highly detailed full-scale YF-23 RCS mockup, weighting 5 tonns and having all external panel lines and details. Was built by Northrop's so-called '705 Test Crew' (mock-up shop) and exstensively tested at Tejon Canyon RCS Test Range. On a photo you can see shelter that was rolled over the mockup on a rails during Soviet spy sattelite flyover the range.
Photo (c) Northrop Media Services via Ian Maddock
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 02:01:50 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2007, 07:04:56 pm »
There was a lot of "stuff" tested at the Tejon Canyon range; I know they did a good bit of TSSAM testing there.

Offline Matej

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2007, 10:00:41 am »
Very interesting concept found by lantinian.

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Offline flateric

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"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #70 on: August 24, 2007, 03:20:53 pm »
Citation from famed Ed Rasimus
"Weapon bays on the original mockup held both Sidewinders and AMRAAMs with no problem--4 and 4 IIRC."
Interseting, I never thought that -23 mockup was ever built...

It was built, in fact. Photo (c) Allen Rockwell (he worked for Northrop) - later author of several large powered YF-23 models (as a hobby).
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 03:22:32 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline CFE

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2007, 08:52:58 pm »
Unconfirmed rumour I've heard that while Northrop didn't dig too hard into NATF-23 proposal, one of the carrier desk -23 variant was a canard ...with just 15% commonality with AF version.

Going by the one model I saw, that's a fairly accurate rumor.  IMHO, the carrier version definitely was lacking in aesthetic appeal.

From this exchange, I take it that Northrop didn't consider swing-wings like Lockheed did for the navalized F-22.  Then again, it's hard for me to imagine the swing wings combined with the Pelikan tail.

Regarding the lack of NATF info, is this primarily because of government-imposed classification, or contractor-imposed secrecy towards proprietary info?

I can certainly understand why neither Lockheed nor Northrop put much effort into the NATF proposal.  Everybody was too familiar with the limits of commonality from the TFX days, and it seemed like Congress was far more interested than the Navy in the NATF.  Then again, the reciprocal agreement about evaluating the A-12 as a replacement for the F-111 had some merit.  While the A-12 lacked speed, it relied on stealth for survivability.  Then again, the Strike Eagle has proven itself in combat to be a more-than-adequate replacement for the 'Vark.

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2007, 04:32:33 am »

Regarding the lack of NATF info, is this primarily because of government-imposed classification, or contractor-imposed secrecy towards proprietary info?


Contractor(s) seems more likely from what I've heard. There was kind of litigation (OK, I'm not hard in law terms, and currently can't check e-mail from Northrop guy why was describing the case) that prevented both Northrop and MDC from releasing technical details of the ATF program. When was it - after team lost the competition, or before MDC was eaten by Boeing - I don't know.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 01:35:04 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 and EMD F-23
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2007, 02:24:18 am »
Current state of YF-23 PAV-2 - parked outdoors inside NG Hawthorne facility after 2-year 're-surfacing' restoration.
Photos are from SoCal_CJ originally posted at www.f-16.net
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 02:28:36 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works