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Author Topic: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)  (Read 27744 times)

Offline Archibald

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Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« on: November 23, 2006, 10:24:01 am »
Atempt to make a SSTO with a LACE system.
air coming from the intake was pumped in tanks, oxygen was separated from the rest of the air, then went to fuel the engine (burning with hydrogen).
First atempt at LACE / ACES long before HOTOL.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerospaceplane

I would really want to see some pics of the contenders (if any)
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2006, 12:07:29 pm »
The most recent edition of Jenkins Shuttle book had a big section on Aerospaceplane.
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2006, 08:12:53 am »
Hemmm... any hope of seeing some pics here ?  :-[
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 01:46:15 pm »
There is always hope.
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 02:44:25 pm »
 :D
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2006, 04:25:36 pm »
Set scanner resolution to "Tantalize!"
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 04:26:13 pm »
The rest.
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 04:28:35 pm »
Image resolution intentionally set low because:
1) Jenkins is a good feller
2) The book is readily available for purchase
3) There's a lot more neat stuff in it
4) And it didn't sell near as well as it should have.
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 12:06:42 am »
Ok, I understand! Once you mention the book, I knew htat there would be some "limits". That's perfect like that, just wanted to see the pics to have an idea of what the concepts look like :)
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Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 07:48:56 am »
"And it didn't sell near as well as it should have."

maybe because it is an updated version of the previous book with no allowance made for the  punkies like me who bought the first issue ?

In a similar vein I have the 3 different issues of "X-planes" . Not because I like it but because no one is interested in buying from me the two earlier editions  which I bought as soon as they were released...

Updating a book could be a good or a bad idea ....depending on wether you have bought the first issue or not.

(obviously this is going completely outside the topic, I know !!!!)

JCC

Offline flateric

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 07:58:40 am »
One of Aerospaceplane concepts
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 08:02:19 am »
maybe because it is an updated version of the previous book with no allowance made for the  punkies like me who bought the first issue ?

Both X-planes and Space Shuttle books have significant add-ons (seems that first X-planes edition loses some very important info on X-45, yes? ))) and differencies, I must say as owner of three/two editions, respectively.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Matej

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 08:48:47 am »
Something similar

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 10:35:31 am »
I heard that Marquardt went as far as testing an engine (or at least , a demonstrator).
what were the problems exactly with the system ?
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 11:58:00 am »
I heard that Marquardt went as far as testing an engine (or at least , a demonstrator).
what were the problems exactly with the system ?

In the end... physics and complexity. An SSTO airbreathing spaceplane is something at the bleeding edge of technology and materials science *today,* in 1963 the idea was virtually impossible.

Marquardt tested a large number of engines, from ramjets to ejector ramjets to supercharged turboejectorramscramjets. A lot of progress was made, but nothing flight-like and of the scale needed for ASP was made.
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2006, 03:26:43 am »
Justement... there was also the RJ-176 SERJ intented for the X-15 in 1969 (this link http://www.up-ship.com/apr/extras/serjx15.htm)
As you can see there's a pic of the engine. So, what is exactly in this photo ?  a subscale demonstrator ? a truly fonctional engine ?

I'm very interested by this airbreathing engine X-15, so if there's more information available somewhere ...  ::) ;D
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2006, 05:22:15 pm »
Boeing had a number of ASP designs.

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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2006, 05:23:19 pm »
A few more Boeing ASP concepts.

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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2006, 05:31:16 pm »
So, what is exactly in this photo ?  a subscale demonstrator ?

As it says. Small and overweight, but proof of concept.
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Offline Stormbreaker

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 11:29:39 am »
Could someone please let have the exact title of Jenkin's Shuttle Book and perhaps the publisher?

I'd really like to get hold of a copy of this book, but I'm not sure which is the right title on Amazon - or if its currently in print.

Thanks!


Offline pometablava

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2007, 01:25:15 pm »
http://www.amazon.com/Space-Shuttle-National-Transportation-Missions/dp/0963397451/sr=1-1/qid=1171574484/ref=sr_1_1/002-1653921-7802411?ie=UTF8&s=books

That's the book. It is a comprehensive masterpiece with tons of unbuilt designs. I have the first edition from 1992-93 which covers from the very beggining to STS-50.


Offline Stormbreaker

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2007, 04:55:29 pm »
Many thanks pometablava,

Much appreciated.


Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2007, 03:26:02 am »
Regarding the Boeing 887-24, those are interesting nozzles.  Aerospikes, maybe?

George

Offline Sentinel Chicken

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2007, 06:02:16 am »
Marquardt tested a large number of engines, from ramjets to ejector ramjets to supercharged turboejectorramscramjets.
Supercharged turboejectorramscramjets? Do they have flux capacitors?

Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2007, 06:44:55 am »
Only if the dilithium crystals aren't available, I'd guess.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2007, 08:20:02 am »
Aerospikes, maybe?

External expansion ramps. Think of them as upside-down X-30 NASP tail sections.
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Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2007, 11:24:14 am »
Makes sense, thanks.

George

Online hesham

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2007, 02:41:38 pm »
Hi,

Can anyone give me a drawing to Boeing Model-979 spacecraft ?.
please.

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2007, 04:39:29 pm »

Can anyone give me a drawing to Boeing Model-979 spacecraft ?

Yup. Got a whole bunch of 'em, in quite good detail. Had a whole APR article on the 979, in fact. Not an "aerospaceplane," though, or even a spacecraft. Winged Saturn V first stage.
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Online hesham

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2007, 09:55:17 am »


  Thanks.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2007, 12:01:31 pm »

Can anyone give me a drawing to Boeing Model-979 spacecraft ?

Yup. Got a whole bunch of 'em, in quite good detail. Had a whole APR article on the 979, in fact. Not an "aerospaceplane," though, or even a spacecraft. Winged Saturn V first stage.

Is it linked to early shuttle proposals (1969-1971) ? I've red (on M. Lindroos website) that Boeing proposed an ET Shuttle (ET= External tank  ;)) Shuttle on top of a winged Saturn V rocket stage. There was also unwinged / parachute/ retrorockets variants to splashdown (crash down ? ;D) on the Atlantic...

Me want to know
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2007, 12:11:04 pm »
I've red (on M. Lindroos website) that Boeing proposed an ET Shuttle (ET= External tank  ;)) Shuttle on top of a winged Saturn V rocket stage.

That's the one. To be slightly more precise, the 979 was *one* of those designs. Winged S-IC's were proposed by Boeing, Lockheed, NAR, McD, Grumman, Pan Am (yes, Pan Am) and NASA itself. Spent last night scanning in just such things.
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Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2007, 12:27:43 am »
Quote
Pan Am (yes, Pan Am)

So Clarke and Kubrick were right when imagining Pan Am spaceplanes ?   ;D

I really have to buy this Orion kit at the shop one day  ::)
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Offline PMN1

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2007, 02:39:26 pm »

Can anyone give me a drawing to Boeing Model-979 spacecraft ?

Yup. Got a whole bunch of 'em, in quite good detail. Had a whole APR article on the 979, in fact. Not an "aerospaceplane," though, or even a spacecraft. Winged Saturn V first stage.

Is it linked to early shuttle proposals (1969-1971) ? I've red (on M. Lindroos website) that Boeing proposed an ET Shuttle (ET= External tank  ;)) Shuttle on top of a winged Saturn V rocket stage. There was also unwinged / parachute/ retrorockets variants to splashdown (crash down ? ;D) on the Atlantic...

Me want to know



Three good sites

http://www.astronautix.com/

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/category-view.asp

http://uplink.space.com/ubbthreads.php


Offline Sundog

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2007, 10:41:49 pm »
Bought the Jenkins book, based on the info provided in this forum. I can't wait for it to arrive.  ;D

Offline Barrington Bond

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2008, 12:54:54 pm »
Martin Astroplane nuclear - liquid nitrogen propelled. MHD powerplant- magnetohydrodynamic plasma accelerator.
From Missiles and Rockets 4 September 1961.

"It hasn't squeaked in a week!"

Offline flateric

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2008, 01:30:49 pm »
In Jenkins Space Shuttle book re-drawn top illustrations make me thing of folding 'batwing' - am I dreaming?
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Barrington Bond

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2008, 01:41:04 pm »
It certainly does!

Regards,
Barry
"It hasn't squeaked in a week!"

Offline KJ_Lesnick

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2008, 08:10:31 pm »
Which is more effective in terms of thrust, weight, and specific impulse... an RBCC/Turborocket?  LACE?  or TBCC?


BTW:  Regarding the Martin MHD design... did anything come of that?  Or did it just not work?


KJ_Lesnick 

Offline Barrington Bond

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2008, 12:01:55 am »
I don't know any more than this...

"It hasn't squeaked in a week!"

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2008, 06:43:50 pm »
Barrington, you rock!  :o Been looking for something like three years now. I bought Jenkin's '96 edition secondhand in 2005 and the Astroplane caught my eye. I did Google, but I got nothing. So I thank you.

Now if I could just get  the last page or two, the section on the HL-20. Seems the previous owner probably didnt want to part with it. So Im missing that section. You get what you pay for.
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline flateric

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2008, 01:30:37 pm »
Republic Aerospaceplane
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2008, 10:02:25 am »

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2012, 06:11:23 pm »
From Scott, http://up-ship.com/apr/extras/boasp1.jpg

Although I found the link on here:http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.space.history/2005-01/2443.html

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Offline circle-5

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2013, 11:59:02 am »
Factory model of the Convair LACES aerospaceplane (SSTO). This model was classified for quite a few years. More details of this design and LACE engine operations are available in the excellent Space Shuttle book by Dennis Jenkins.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:04:24 pm by circle-5 »

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2013, 12:03:20 pm »
Nice.
To the Stars

Offline shockonlip

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2013, 02:50:44 pm »
These same pics were in Keeshen's new book, just out in
the US now (Amazon just informed me they are now available
but I had already gotten a copy from Crecy).
 
They are the first factory Aerospaceplane project model pics I've seen.
 
I wish there were more.
 
 
 
 

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2013, 03:06:36 pm »
A marvelous design and a splendid desktop model. Thanks a lot for sharing.

Offline circle-5

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2013, 05:27:14 pm »
Wallpaper photo of Convair LACES Aerospaceplane model (ca. 1961).

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2013, 01:01:18 am »
Wallpaper photo of Convair LACES Aerospaceplane model (ca. 1961).


Many thanks Circle-5, and as follows my contribution about the matter as a part of Scott Lowther's APR old number ([size=78%]http://www.up-ship.com/eAPR/ev2n5.htm[/size])




Offline circle-5

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2013, 11:36:57 am »
Wallpaper photo of Convair LACES Aerospaceplane model (ca. 1961).
Many thanks Circle-5, and as follows my contribution about the matter as a part of Scott Lowther's APR old number ([size=78%]http://www.up-ship.com/eAPR/ev2n5.htm[/size])


Thank you Archipeppe. I believe your drawing represents an earlier, development version of the Convair Aerospaceplane, with separate air intakes for the LACE oxygen separators (on three quadrants, behind the flight deck). It appears that Convair engineers were later satisfied with diverting enough air from the six hybrid engine intakes to perform that function. The fuselage intakes then became unnecessary. I've seen a model of your Aerospaceplane variant, but I do not have it, unfortunately.


No word on how the exposed ventral intakes would withstand atmospheric re-entry -- perhaps they were solid, unobtainium castings.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2013, 11:53:23 am »
In his seminal shuttle book Dennis Jenkins briefly mentions the HIRES scheme - Hypersonic Refueling ! does anybody knows a little bit more about that concept ?
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Offline shockonlip

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2013, 02:10:14 pm »
In his seminal shuttle book Dennis Jenkins briefly mentions the HIRES scheme - Hypersonic Refueling ! does anybody knows a little bit more about that concept ?

About HIRES specifically, no.
 
But, mid-air refuelling is just part of it.
 
LTV studied a more general capability they called Atmospheric Rendezvous in which mid-air refueling
was just one possibility. See AIAA paper 72-134 by Bird and Schaezler; "Aerospace Applications of
Atmospheric Rendezvous".
 
To give you an idea, of the application of these concepts, for example to a 2-stage orbital vehicle.
These concepts would permit the first stage or second stage to be designed and constructed without
certain low speed elements such as wings, landing gear, air breathing hypersonic, supersonic or
subsonic propulsion for cross range or ferry. Such vehicles would be received in atmospheric flight by
a carrier aircraft to perform those aspects of the mission. Significant reductions in gross lift off weight
are possible employing aircraft as a carrier or tow vehicle.
 
Interesting paper!
 

Offline shockonlip

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2013, 02:48:18 pm »
Wallpaper photo of Convair LACES Aerospaceplane model (ca. 1961).
Many thanks Circle-5, and as follows my contribution about the matter as a part of Scott Lowther's APR old number ([size=78%]http://www.up-ship.com/eAPR/ev2n5.htm[/size])


Thank you Archipeppe. I believe your drawing represents an earlier, development version of the Convair Aerospaceplane, with separate air intakes for the LACE oxygen separators (on three quadrants, behind the flight deck). It appears that Convair engineers were later satisfied with diverting enough air from the six hybrid engine intakes to perform that function. The fuselage intakes then became unnecessary. I've seen a model of your Aerospaceplane variant, but I do not have it, unfortunately.


No word on how the exposed ventral intakes would withstand atmospheric re-entry -- perhaps they were solid, unobtainium castings.

Since the pictures you posted (thanks for that circle-5, VERY much!) show a shock cone inlet,
I would expect that the cone would have the capability to close off the inlet when they were done
breating air and for reentry. Plus it was probably a moving spike inlet anyway for more efficient
compression. And as far as cooling, since LH2 is used for the LACE to cool the air and liquify it,
I would expect LH2 was probably also employed to cool the structure there.
 
As far as the fuselage based or engine inlet integrated air liquifier, I would think that the most
flexible approach would be for an inlet that could breathe non or low-cooled air, more deeply cooled air
(but not liquified) to increase the compression ratio for a turbojet or certain cycles of a variable cycle
turbofan, or to cool the air all the way to liquifying it, for the LACE (Liquid Air Cycle Engine).
Such a propulsion system would have great flexibility if such an inlet could feed a turbojet or
variable cycle turbofan, or a rocket.
 

Offline ouroboros

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2013, 01:58:04 am »
I don't know any more than this...

Considering PROFAC was an atmosphere scooper with a nuclear powered arcjet (and no MHD?) that might make some sense. In the modern case, I guess that Astroplane would be described more like a nuclear electric VASIMR though.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2013, 06:53:45 am »
In his seminal shuttle book Dennis Jenkins briefly mentions the HIRES scheme - Hypersonic Refueling ! does anybody knows a little bit more about that concept ?

About HIRES specifically, no.
 
But, mid-air refuelling is just part of it.
 
LTV studied a more general capability they called Atmospheric Rendezvous in which mid-air refueling
was just one possibility. See AIAA paper 72-134 by Bird and Schaezler; "Aerospace Applications of
Atmospheric Rendezvous".
 
To give you an idea, of the application of these concepts, for example to a 2-stage orbital vehicle.
These concepts would permit the first stage or second stage to be designed and constructed without
certain low speed elements such as wings, landing gear, air breathing hypersonic, supersonic or
subsonic propulsion for cross range or ferry. Such vehicles would be received in atmospheric flight by
a carrier aircraft to perform those aspects of the mission. Significant reductions in gross lift off weight
are possible employing aircraft as a carrier or tow vehicle.
 
Interesting paper!

thank you very much. If you happens to know more about in-flight refueling of space planes, I'll be interested by it.
It is a path not taken but has a pretty huge potential. It literally breaks the big delta-V to Earth orbit into smaller pieces, making a SSTO somewhat easier.

According to Mitchell Burnside Clapp (there)
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/magnus/bh/analog.html

Quote
A Speculative Idea Beyond their baseline mode of operation, certain speculative operabonal modes exist that could signiticantly enhance the capability of APT vehicles in the future.
Consider the case where we have two Black Horse type vehicles, each using JP-5/H2O2 with an Isp of 335 s. The vehicles have a dry weight of 15,000 lb and a propellant load of 180,000 lb, which assuming a required Delta-v to orbit of 27 kft/s, allows them to deliver 1,000 lb to LEO.

Now, let's say that we fly the two of them off together, accelerating them jointly not to orbit, but rather to a suborbital trajectory with a velocity of 18.5 kft/ s. The two space planes are now outside the atmosphere, in free fall (i.e. zero gravity) in the immediate vicinity of each other. Let's say we now bring the two together and extend a refueling boom, allowing the 20,000 lb of residual propellant from one to be transferred to the other. The two then separate, the empty vehicle to return to Earth, the enriched vehicle to ascend to orbit with a payload of 12,000 lbs. Without any new hardware, the orbital delivery capability of the system can be increased by a factor of 12.

(now if someone knows Burnside Clapp, or understand how does the math works  ;) - I'll be glad to discuss the matter further !)

 
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine - Bordeaux - Mérignac / Dassault aviation museum
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2013, 06:58:04 am »
In the same Scott Lowther APR I've mentioned before there is a link to such "hypersonic in-flight refuelling" even if really odd it was seriously envisioned for the Douglas Model 2235. This Sci-fi like space vehicle had specific buddy-buddy like system pod on wing extremities.

Offline KJ_Lesnick

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2014, 08:38:34 pm »
The Boeing 887-12 design -- when was that drawn up?

Online hesham

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2015, 04:38:52 am »
Hi,


here is a n aerospaceplane designed by Marquardt.


https://archive.org/stream/missilesrockets1213unse#page/n167/mode/2up

Online hesham

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2015, 08:57:33 am »

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2015, 09:29:19 am »
Could be Lockheed System III from the Earth-to-space "shuttle" vehicles for NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center. around 1962-1964
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6741.0.html
I love Strange Technology

Online hesham

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #61 on: October 13, 2015, 02:20:35 pm »
Could be Lockheed System III from the Earth-to-space "shuttle" vehicles for NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center. around 1962-1964
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6741.0.html


I agree with you my dear Michel.

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Offline Dynoman

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2016, 08:28:14 pm »
Any information on the Marquardt M-146 engine system developed for the Aerospaceplane? Supposedly, after Marquardt shut down the M-146 test article was still on the property in Van Nuys (circa 1991). This is reportedly the same engine Steven Wurst used in his Space Access design.

Offline flateric

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Re: Aerospaceplane (1958-1963)
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2017, 05:33:12 pm »
Convair Aerospace Plane see-through model from SDASM archives on Flickr
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