XAC Y-20 Kunpeng / KJ-3000 AEW

totoro said:
There are various images around which help sizing the cargo bay. length is fairly easy to estimate, but cargo floor width is harder. Though this image View attachment 738675

suggests it could/should be around 4.2 meters wide, judging by the width of the ramp. Ramp edges themselves are 4.5 m.
When I use ramp to landing gear position ratio, and then size up the landing gear position to a measurable value like wingspan (as measured via google earth) then I get even more, closer to 4.7 m. But as one can imagine, doing measurements that way is bound to involve some inaccuracies.
I googled average pallet width in china and got 1200mm. Measuring to that i got 4.5 meters.
For the 4.5 meters to be possible, the guy in the picture would have to be 1.78 tall, which is also fairly believable. (2021 report said that 19 year old male average height was 176 cm) Once again, that's ramp edges.
All that taking into consideration, the part of the ramp that actually seems to be useable width is some 93.5% of the total ramp width, getting me from 4.5 meters to 4.21 meters.
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It's far simpler than that; we can just check the technical drawings.
 

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Tomboy said:
Theres some decent evidence that they are developing a 400-500 ton class super heavy transport, Shenyang AECC had preliminary research done on a potential advanced 250kN class engine based on the WS-20 as far back as 2015. More recently in late 2022 more info popped up about requesting testing equipment which likely means the first prototype was assembled sometime in 2022. The only foreseeable use case for this class of engines would be An-124/C-5M class transport so if they were to go as far as make an engine for it, it would make alot of sense that the aircraft itself is also in late stages of development by now.

It might face potential competition from the "Slon" project though; however God knows if that project is still kicking right now as the last time I've heard of it was from 2022.
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China currently lacks the requisite engine technology and industrial capacity. The newly revealed Chinese-made variant, the AEF-1200 (historically referenced as the WS-20 and developed from the CFM-56 core structure derived from the WS-10), has only recently emerged, with its manufacturing and processing standards corresponding to 1980s-era technology. The engine features a maximum thrust output of a mere 12.5 metric tons and utilizes 32 narrow, mid-span shrouded fan blades, a design architecture dating back to the 1960s.

Furthermore, the designation 'WS-20' is now obsolete; during the November 2024 Zhuhai Airshow, Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) personnel confirmed firsthand that its official designation is the AEF-1200. In this nomenclature, 'AEF' signifies 'Aero Engine Fan' (turbofan), while '1200' represents the thrust rating class of 1,200 kN (approximately 12,248 kilograms-force). Therefore, the actual thrust of this large-bypass engine is limited to approximately 12.5 tons. Additionally, as the AEF-1200 is designated strictly for military applications, it does not require civil airworthiness certification.

This is the absolute reason why the Chinese C919 must rely on American engines. Because their technology is plagiarized from the CFM56 architecture, they face severe risks of sanctions that could ground the fleet or even ban the aircraft from entering foreign airspace.

Meanwhile, the C919 has no choice but to rely on American engines for the time being, while slowly waiting for the CJ-1000A（A truly indigenous Chinese-developed engine.） to mature

----------------This represents the pinnacle of current Chinese aero-engine capability, yet a significant performance gap remains when compared even to the baseline PS-90 variant introduced thirty years ago.
 

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mwefc said:
China currently lacks the requisite engine technology and industrial capacity. The newly revealed Chinese-made variant, the AEF-1200 (historically referenced as the WS-20 and developed from the CFM-56 core structure derived from the WS-10), has only recently emerged, with its manufacturing and processing standards corresponding to 1980s-era technology.
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Ok but seriously after reading some of your recent posts, it has become quite clear that your knowledge on Chinese aviation industry is woefully outdated and most of the time downright incorrect.
 
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Tomboy said:
好吧，但说真的，读了你最近的一些帖子之后，很明显你对中国航空业的了解已经严重过时，而且大多数时候都是完全错误的。
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No one can complete the entire process of designing, producing, and accepting an aero-engine within 20 years—that is a law of physics.
 
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Deino said:
Well, the ones shown in that image I am not allowed to post are already included in that list; what i however did not list are about 20 additional Y-20B at XAC, that were not yet delivered in January since several of them are likely the more recently confirmed ones. The point is, there are surely a few not yet confirmed by serial number and as such the list could be likely (changes to above in bold):


12th AR / 4th TD: 25 Y-20A, 3 YY-20A, 17 Y-20B = 45
37th AR / 13th TD: 20 Y-20A, 20 Y-20B = 40
38th AR / 13th TD: 38-42 (maybe 45) YY-20A
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55 Y-20A, about 40-45 YY-20A, 37 Y-20B (as of late May 2026) = 132-137 individual aircraft

But again, that's just my conservative guess!
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@Deino estimates conservatively that there are 132 Y-20s built by May 2026 including 40 YY-20A tankers.
 
It seems the only thing the Chinese Air Force is missing is super large strategic transport planes.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
It seems the only thing the Chinese Air Force is missing is super large strategic transport planes.
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Verified combat experience, Long range bomber arm, midair refuelling capacity (scale).
Large strategic airlift is a rather niche capability in the end, especially since Y-20 is widebody, i.e. fits quite a lot.
 
I agree that it might not be useful in a war, but for China, there are still a lot of civilian or military equipment that needs to be transported. More importantly, it can improve China's design experience on larger aircraft and boost the aviation industry's capabilities, so it still makes sense.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
It seems the only thing the Chinese Air Force is missing is super large strategic transport planes.
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What big things does China need to haul by air over long distances?

Doesn't China have a pretty solid and widespread rail network?


pagliacci said:
There is no doubt that heavy transport aircraft on the scale of the C-5 or An-124 are under development.
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I dunno, there's not a very large external market for An124 sized aircraft. Maybe 60 total airframes.
 
Scott Kenny said:
What big things does China need to haul by air over long distances?

Doesn't China have a pretty solid and widespread rail network?
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The ability to do power projection on intercontinental scales outside of the PRC mainland.

As it stands, a C-5M class aircraft is definitely in the works, it's just a matter of waiting.
 
Scott Kenny said:
What big things does China need to haul by air over long distances?

Doesn't China have a pretty solid and widespread rail network?



I dunno, there's not a very large external market for An124 sized aircraft. Maybe 60 total airframes.
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The upcoming Chang'e 7 probe will need Russia's An-124 to transport it.

Some future probes will also need this type of aircraft.
 
Scott Kenny said:
What big things does China need to haul by air over long distances?
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Well, for example, if expeditionary American systems can fly to Philippines or Pacific islands, so can the Chinese ones (Heavy air defense above HQ-9, Radars, PLARF systems); it's a good synergy with rapidly emerging PLA MC(two of them; very visible and discussed) and extreme growth of PLA airborne capability (apparently completely missed somehow).

Heavy PLA systems can't be taken by normal heavy airlift, even Y-20 as they weren't designed for it. Bigger plane is a natural enabler.
 
Forest Green said:
Looks amphibious at a guess - 2 props on back at sides.
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It's not exactly a new vehicle, it has been around for many years.

Like the Type 08 wheeled armored vehicle family, this armored vehicle has also been developed into a new family and will eventually replace the Type 08 wheeled armored vehicle family in the future.
 

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SUPER=BUG said:
It's not exactly a new vehicle, it has been around for many years.

Like the Type 08 wheeled armored vehicle family, this armored vehicle has also been developed into a new family and will eventually replace the Type 08 wheeled armored vehicle family in the future.
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I wouldn't say it's been around for "many years"
More like "a few years". It only entered service in last two or three years

I think its actual name is ZBL-221
 
 

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