XAC Y-20 Kunpeng / KJ-3000 AEW

[Forest Green]

https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-new-...warning-radar-jet-seen-in-detail-in-new-image

 

[Scott Kenny]

Pardon me, binged the whole thread.

A wind tunnel model and cockpit section have been built. The consensus seems to be that the Avic design is slightly smaller than the C-17, perhaps with an IL-76 influence. Prototype powerplant is to the the WS-18 (D-30KP-2). production aircraft would be powered by a HBR turbofan derived from the FWS-10 by 603 Institute. Take-off weight is said to be in the range of 60t.

Hrm. Was not expecting a "Pinko Commie C-17", I was expecting larger.

And of countries currently operating heavy long range airlifters how many would/ could buy a Chinese aircraft? Which countries do you foresee having a new requirement for this class of airlifter? Which specific countries would you foresee actually buying the Y-20?
Established Chinese aerospace customers like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Mymar, Nigeria etc are at best only likely to want/need/afford tiny numbers of such an aircraft (if at all).

Countries? Whoever. Brazil is likely, unless Embraer builds a big cargo plane.

But I can guarantee about 60 airframes to support the oil industry, if you make a plane that is An124 sized. Or rather, carries the same cargo box size as an An124. All the oil industry loads have been built around "what fits in an An124". The newest An124 is 20 years old now. They probably have little more than 15 years of remaining service life.

I’d guess that it is easier to do so than on fighter aircraft because the entire nacelle can be swapped out so no fuselage modification needed for air intake changes.

There's usually still some reinforcement to be done on the pylon and where it attaches to the wing, but it's relatively trivial to do. It mostly takes the form of scab panels or plates getting added.

 

[Tomboy]

But I can guarantee about 60 airframes to support the oil industry, if you make a plane that is An124 sized. Or rather, carries the same cargo box size as an An124. All the oil industry loads have been built around "what fits in an An124". The newest An124 is 20 years old now. They probably have little more than 15 years of remaining service life.

Theres some decent evidence that they are developing a 400-500 ton class super heavy transport, Shenyang AECC had preliminary research done on a potential advanced 250kN class engine based on the WS-20 as far back as 2015. More recently in late 2022 more info popped up about requesting testing equipment which likely means the first prototype was assembled sometime in 2022. The only foreseeable use case for this class of engines would be An-124/C-5M class transport so if they were to go as far as make an engine for it, it would make alot of sense that the aircraft itself is also in late stages of development by now.

It might face potential competition from the "Slon" project though; however God knows if that project is still kicking right now as the last time I've heard of it was from 2022.

 

[Deino]

Best ones so far

 

[Josh_TN]

Theres some decent evidence that they are developing a 400-500 ton class super heavy transport, Shenyang AECC had preliminary research done on a potential advanced 250kN class engine based on the WS-20 as far back as 2015. More recently in late 2022 more info popped up about requesting testing equipment which likely means the first prototype was assembled sometime in 2022. The only foreseeable use case for this class of engines would be An-124/C-5M class transport so if they were to go as far as make an engine for it, it would make alot of sense that the aircraft itself is also in late stages of development by now.

It might face potential competition from the "Slon" project though; however God knows if that project is still kicking right now as the last time I've heard of it was from 2022.

Would a H-20 twin engine design be another candidate?

 

[Tomboy]

Would a H-20 twin engine design be another candidate?

I don't think you can fit an engine with a fan diameter of ~93 inches(236cm) into a flying wing without having it become too thick considering you also have to fit a large S-duct for both the exhaust and intake. H-20 will likely use 4 medium bypass turbofans in the 120kN thrust class similar to B-21 but much larger and with 4 engines instead. Some people think this is H-20's intended engine:
The old Il-76MD testbed was seen fitted with a new medium bypass engine in 2023, likely a medium bypass turbofan using the core derived either from WS-10 or WS-15.

 

[Josh_TN]

I don't think you can fit an engine with a fan diameter of ~93 inches(236cm) into a flying wing without having it become too thick considering you also have to fit a large S-duct for both the exhaust and intake. H-20 will likely use 4 medium bypass turbofans in the 120kN thrust class similar to B-21 but much larger and with 4 engines instead. Some people think this is H-20's intended engine:View attachment 774834
The old Il-76MD testbed was seen fitted with a new medium bypass engine in 2023, likely a medium bypass turbofan using the core derived either from WS-10 or WS-15.

My assumption is that it would be a lower bypass than the WS-20 it is derived from much like PW9000 is assumed to be a medium bypass development of the PW1000 civilian family. But the WS-10/15 route would probably be lower risk like F118; I did not know medium bypass engines had already been observed.

 

[Deino]

Latest and so far best image of the new KJ-3000 AEW

 

[Deino]

Via by78/SDF: The clearest image of the KJ-3000 so far!

 

[Deino]

One more ...

 

[Sferrin]

Sure glad we cancelled the E-7 buy. Who needs obsolete AWACS anyway? /sarc.

 

[alberchico]

It really is a gorgeous bird...

 

[helmutkohl]

definitely looks better with the new engines..
with that recent pic of the J-20, is the PLAAF painting all their planes in dark grey with light grey accents now?

 

[TwoTribes]

 

[Tomboy]

Second KJ-3000 prototype via Huitong's blog

 

[publiusr]

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That line of planes is more worrisome to me than any pix of China's fighters. Logistics win wars...the Just-In-Time/disposable labor model doesn't.

 

[Sferrin]

View attachment 780979


View attachment 780991

They should show us how to build a real tanker.

 

[Sferrin]

View attachment 781014
Second KJ-3000 prototype via Huitong's blog

And AWACS

 

[lancer21]

They should show us how to build a real tanker.

And AWACS

I'm sure they will be more than happy to sell you IFR and AEW Y-20s or give you a licence (but probably better not a licence, US builders will ruin it with continual delays and cost escalation) if ever the circumstances become right. Xian C-20 for USAF.

 

[Sferrin]

I'm sure they will be more than happy to sell you IFR and AEW Y-20s or give you a licence (but probably better not a licence, US builders will ruin it with continual delays and cost escalation) if ever the circumstances become right. Xian C-20 for USAF.

What really burns isn't that we lack the skill it's that our leaders couldn't plan their way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[TwoTribes]

From Weibo ZBAARWY01_

 

[Deino]

Best image of the KJ-3000 so far

 

[GTX]

Best image of the KJ-3000 so far

View attachment 786780

Is that real or photoshopped. It just looks a little fake or retouched to me.

 

[Blitzo]

Is that real or photoshopped. It just looks a little fake or retouched to me.

It should be a real image but likely enhanced by built in smartphone/camera AI, which is why some of the details look simultaneously detailed but inaccurate.

AI enhancement seems to be the norm these days. Rather annoying, but what can you do.

 

[TwoTribes]

Form Weibo 银杏叶文创工作室

High-res images

 

[SUPER=BUG]

Wait a minute, although it's a bit off-topic, what kind of weapon is hanging on the J16 that is following the Y20?

 

[Blitzo]

Wait a minute, although it's a bit off-topic, what kind of weapon is hanging on the J16 that is following the Y20?

Should be KD-88 air to surface standoff missiles with a datalinking pod and wingtip PL-10s.

Relatively well known and established weapons

 

[Deino]

Should be KD-88 air to surface standoff missiles with a datalinking pod and wingtip PL-10s.

Relatively well known and established weapons

Indeed, here a slightly better one and even if the KD-88 is indeed an established weapon, this is (IMO?) the rarely seen improved variant KD-88B.

 

[CJGibson]

I've had a stab at a GA of the KJ-3000.

Also have a Y-20, Y-20B and the tanker if anyone is interested.

Chris

 

[Deino]

via ACuriousPLAFan/SDF: "The 2nd KJ-3000 prototype with #7822 conducting flight testing. Video posted by @欧阳振我86468 on Weibo. According to observers, the flight testing of the KJ-3000 prototypes has been conducted very frequently."
One additional most interesting detail, there is something on top of the wing which looks like some sort of an IRST-dome!?

(Via @湖军I名)

 

[FighterJock]

An interesting find Deino, cetainly no other AWACS aircraft have anything like it installed.

 

[Josh_TN]

I was thinking it might have been related to an optical communication system or perhaps a long range defensive detection system, but it seems to be distinctly forward looking? It does look like a huge IRST/FLIR, though I cannot imagine why that would be useful. If there were other similar sensors all around the airframe that would make more sense; perhaps this is a test item.

 

[EmoBirb]

Maybe some form of DIRCM? Trial for some kind of DEW (I suppose a large AEW&C type aircraft has the necessary power Generation)

 

[FighterJock]

It could well be EmoBirb, given the size and the position of the it on the fuselage of the KJ-3000.

 

[TwoTribes]

New

 

[TomcatViP]

I was thinking it might have been related to an optical communication system or perhaps a long range defensive detection system, but it seems to be distinctly forward looking? It does look like a huge IRST/FLIR, though I cannot imagine why that would be useful. If there were other similar sensors all around the airframe that would make more sense; perhaps this is a test item.

IMOHO Directional/safe datalink. (essentially an AESA array on gimbal).

 

[FighterJock]

Got me confused now TomcatVIP. Let's just wait until the PLAAF reveals what it exactly is.

 

[Scott Kenny]

What's that white striping under the rear fuselage of the Y-20?

 

[Deino]

What's that white striping under the rear fuselage of the Y-20?

Markings for in-flight refuelling ... and it is not on Y-20s but only on YY-20A and Y-20B MRTT!

By the way, best image of a KJ-3000 so far:

 

[Deino]

AFAIK for the first time photos from the Y-20 production line were leaked.