Wikileaks leaks embassy documents - Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabiaetc

[mz]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?hp

Hopefully it stays civil.

I haven't seen anything surprising yet...

 

[SOC]

I hope the NSA is working on some sort of computer intrusion into the Wikileaks servers with an aim to erasing the lot of them.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I've seen this plotline before. It did not end well.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

I haven't seen anything surprising yet...

You can say that to all the WikiLeaks releases from the Bradley Manning theft. Far from exposing the sordid, anti-American truth that many assume is hidden behind a cloak of secrecy these leaks have supporting the general American military narrative. The only anti-American ‘leak’ required considerable manipulation and editing to create the fictional “Collateral Murder” gun camera video.

 

[mz]

begin tinfoil
This must be a CIA operation. The "leaks" will modify the public opinion according to the government's plans.
end tinfoil

 

[GeorgeA]

We in the US aren't going to do much to him, but the real danger for ol' Julian is that he gets cocky and starts releasing Israeli or Russian material. Should he be so foolish, I predict a quick end after a VERY brief illness. Still, one wonders who he really works for.

I do however concur with AG, most of this stuff isn't very shocking. Finding out that we think Foreign Leader X is a d-bag, or that allies and semi-allies tell us one thing in private and do something else in public, is hardly the stuff of international crisis. The real shock to me is that a shmendrick like Manning could get his hands on all this stuff seemingly without effort.

 

[SOC]

We in the US aren't going to do much to him, but the real danger for ol' Julian is that he gets cocky and starts releasing Israeli or Russian material.

You could potentially argue that failure to focus on someone besides America illustrates a motive behind his actions. Typical.

The real shock to me is that a shmendrick like Manning could get his hands on all this stuff seemingly without effort.

It's not suprising. When most of the fun data is catalogued online, finding interesting things to read (or, apparently, steal) isn't hard.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Apparently this data was easily available to US government employees numbering in the tens to hundreds of thousands. That being the case, it's hardly suprising that someone downloaded it all.

From the few blurbs I've seen so far (such as on the "Guardian" article) there's nothing really surprising or even particularly embarassing. The only really embarassing things about this I've read so far are some of the comments on the Guardian article.

At last, though, 0bama finally comes through with his promise of "transparency" in government.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

The real shock to me is that a shmendrick like Manning could get his hands on all this stuff seemingly without effort.

This is still on ongoing investigation but apparantly he recieved some technical help after offering himself up to Wikileaks and friends as a source. This technical help being a program to collect downloads from the classified data banks. So there might still be a few more arrests in this case.

 

[SOC]

That's what I'm saying, data like this was ridiculously easy to locate. When I was still in the USAF, we had multiple classified internets to pull info from. All you needed to get access in most cases was a clearance to get you a login. Some stuff was further PW protected on its own site, but tons of stuff was available via the basic networks.

 

[HeavyG]

Apparently this data was easily available to US government employees numbering in the tens to hundreds of thousands. That being the case, it's hardly suprising that someone downloaded it all.

From the few blurbs I've seen so far (such as on the "Guardian" article) there's nothing really surprising or even particularly embarassing. The only really embarassing things about this I've read so far are some of the comments on the Guardian article.

At last, though, 0bama finally comes through with his promise of "transparency" in government.

There might be nothing surprising in these documents, but a good portion of them are going to reveal their sources, probably putting them in great jeopardy. Assange will have blood on his hands if any source revealed starts getting strung up from lampposts or found shot in ditches.

 

[Orionblamblam]

blood on his hands if any source revealed starts getting strung up from lampposts or found shot in ditches.

A general rule of thumb is that someone who seems to be all about "revealing the truth" won't give a damn about who gets hurt in the process. A bit of a change in the world of journalism since WWII, when reporters would keep their traps shut when they found out what the next military maneuver was going to be.

 

[bobbymike]

These episodes show how silly the "Ultra-powerful omniscient US intelligence agency" narrative is. In the third Jason Bourne novel some reporter says "Blackbrier" over a cell phone and an "asset" is sent to kill him in a train station.

Got to hand it to Putin, maybe Assange needs a little polonium in his porridge

 

[flateric]

Assange will have blood on his hands

I suspect he has already. And much.

 

[Michel Van]

on Monday 29 November 2010
allot of US Diplomats all over the world, have a real very bad day at office...

 

[Stargazer]

A general rule of thumb is that someone who seems to be all about "revealing the truth" won't give a damn about who gets hurt in the process. A bit of a change in the world of journalism since WWII, when reporters would keep their traps shut when they found out what the next military maneuver was going to be.

So true. But then journalism involved a solid amount of ethics. Nowadays if the choice is to 1°) keep their mouths shut and preserve general interest and/or national security, or 2°) release whatever information is available whatever the consequences, so long as sales/audience rates go up, they will mostly go for #2. And when they don't properly document or verify information, it's even worse!

 

[fightingirish]

I just can't believe, that Private First Class Bradley E. Manning is the only leak. :-\

 

[flateric]

I just can't believe, that Private First Class Bradley E. Manning is the only leak. :-\

about 2 500 000 persons have access to SIPRNet

 

[SOC]

How about JWICS? I know of a lot of units that only dealt with JWICS.

 

[GeorgeA]

Just finished reading an article on the WSJ about Wikileaks' use of front companies and phony foundations to channel donations to itself, and conceal knowledge about it's "volunteers" and physical infrastructure. Ironic, yes?

And remember, you can't spell Assange without "ass".

 

[Orionblamblam]

And remember, you can't spell Assange without "ass".

With Assange you can spell "sane gas" and "sea snag," but not a whole lot else.

Interestingly, "wikileaks" gives you "Kiwis leak." Clearly, this is a hidden message that New Zealand is behind all this.

 

[Nik]

Was anything *unexpected* said about the Iranian nuke program ??

News this morning was that two Iranian nuclear physicists were simultaneously attacked during commute: Motor bikers attached a bomb to each car's window. One died, one injured. Brazen skill and lack of collateral damage suggests Mossad, of course, of course...

 

[Orionblamblam]

Hmm. Just did some searching on DTIC for some documents on the "Davy Crockett" nuclear weapon system (tryign to get some data for my Orion book). Found a number of reports that looked promising, available on PDF. Except... none of them are available. The links all fail. Could this be a result of the Wikileaks thing?

 

[flateric]

Scott, it has started for a while ago - seems that even some papers available before, and still marked as available as pdfs, are gone...

 

[GeorgeA]

Brazen skill and lack of collateral damage suggests Mossad, of course, of course...

Who, us? It was our day off and we were playing golf. That's our story and we're sticking to it.

 

[GeorgeA]

Scott, it has started for a while ago - seems that even some papers available before, and still marked as available as pdfs, are gone...

This has happened several times over at NTRS, such as the translated history of the USSR's space program, and I've gone back later and have been able to pull it down. Could be a tinfoil hat deal, or maybe just a screwed up server.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Scott, it has started for a while ago - seems that even some papers available before, and still marked as available as pdfs, are gone...

Shrug. It's been a week or so since I last looked on DTIC... everythign worked fine then. Today, *nothing* works. All PDF links are directed to the Handle site, and they all come back with "error." Probably a server issue, but the conspiratorial part of my brain wonders if the server issue is due to over-enthusiasm on someone's part to "plug the leaks."

 

[Stargazer]

Scott, it has started for a while ago - seems that even some papers available before, and still marked as available as pdfs, are gone...

Shrug. It's been a week or so since I last looked on DTIC... everythign worked fine then. Today, *nothing* works. All PDF links are directed to the Handle site, and they all come back with "error." Probably a server issue, but the conspiratorial part of my brain wonders if the server issue is due to over-enthusiasm on someone's part to "plug the leaks."

Any chance that these have been cached somewhere?

 

[Orionblamblam]

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2010/nov/27/tridents-warheads-on-the-road-to-refurbishment/


Hundreds of nuclear warheads are secretly being trucked between Naval Base Kitsap-Bangor and the Texas panhandle to have their lives extended.


DON'T TELL ANYONE THAT THERE ARE NUKES ON THE ROAD. IT'S A SECRET!!!

 

[DamienB]

I actually tend to think something like Wikileaks has value in a truly democratic society.

All I'm really interested in, though, is if any of those cables that date back to 1966 refer to the F-111K fiasco ;D

 

[Orionblamblam]

I just called DTIC (GASP! An actual telephone call to an actual human!) and was informed that the Handles are all down for some scheduled maintenance, but should have all been back up by now.

 

[Orionblamblam]

something like Wikileaks has value in a truly democratic society.

It has even more value for a truly *non* democratic society. Get the US to unilaterally spill all its secrets, and who benefits? Not the US.

Let me know when Wikileaks does an equivalent data dump for Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nork, Russia, China.

 

[Michel Van]

and Let me know when Wikileaks leaks about Roswell...

 

[Rosdivan]

Must be a government wide thing, the National Transit Database isn't working today either.

 

[Orionblamblam]

DTIC/Handle is back up and running, though.

 

[alertken]

damien, #29: F-111K fiasco. Care to amplify? I was unaware of any conspiracy theory here. Cheaper/quicker than TSR.2 (as bid, risk picked up by DoD), interoperable with USAF/PACAF & RAAF...no-brainer; chopped when we chose to let India defend itself.

 

[Hammer Birchgrove]

I haven't seen anything surprising yet...

You can say that to all the WikiLeaks releases from the Bradley Manning theft. Far from exposing the sordid, anti-American truth that many assume is hidden behind a cloak of secrecy these leaks have supporting the general American military narrative. The only anti-American ‘leak’ required considerable manipulation and editing to create the fictional “Collateral Murder” gun camera video.

How was it edited/manipulated? ???

 

[Orionblamblam]

How was it edited/manipulated? ???

I'm unaware of any nefarious editting, but what may be referenced here was how it was *used.* The gun camera footage showed not Apache gunners out to murder innocents, but taking down apparently (and mistakenly) legitimate targets. But that didn't stop some people from using it otherwise... a manipulation of the *press.*

Same thing with the Breitbart/Sherrod video. The video showed one thing (racism by members of the NAACP, at the same time the NAACP was decrying [largely fictional] racism among "Tea Partiers"), but was used in the press to attempt to show that Breitbart had somehow editted the video to prove that Sherrod was the racist (it was actually true that she is/was, but that's beside the point). It was a masterful manipulation of the press by the NAACP and their fellow travellers, without actually manipulating the video.

So even if the documents reveal absolutely nothing underhanded, expect them to be quotemined to show quite the opposite.

 

[Hammer Birchgrove]

How was it edited/manipulated? ???

I'm unaware of any nefarious editting, but what may be referenced here was how it was *used.* The gun camera footage showed not Apache gunners out to murder innocents, but taking down apparently (and mistakenly) legitimate targets. But that didn't stop some people from using it otherwise... a manipulation of the *press.*

What I remember from when I saw the video, is that I first thought that the helicopter crews had made a horrible mistake, but after one or a few minutes, I thought they should stop shooting... but they kept shooting... What the crew were saying didn't help their case, they were without mercy or remorse (according to what I could see on the video, as it was presented on the TV news here).

Same thing with the Breitbart/Sherrod video. The video showed one thing (racism by members of the NAACP, at the same time the NAACP was decrying [largely fictional] racism among "Tea Partiers"), but was used in the press to attempt to show that Breitbart had somehow editted the video to prove that Sherrod was the racist (it was actually true that she is/was, but that's beside the point). It was a masterful manipulation of the press by the NAACP and their fellow travellers, without actually manipulating the video.

I read about this controversy on Wikipedia (it's the first time I read or hear about this - I haven't been able to watch CBS 60 Minutes for over a year) and that is not the *impression* I get.

So even if the documents reveal absolutely nothing underhanded, expect them to be quotemined to show quite the opposite.

Too true.

 

[Orionblamblam]

What I remember from when I saw the video, is that I first thought that the helicopter crews had made a horrible mistake,

It's easy to suspect that someone is making a mistake when you're watching a video of someone do something that you already know was a mistake.

but after one or a few minutes, I thought they should stop shooting... but they kept shooting... What the crew were saying didn't help their case, they were without mercy or remorse

Their job was to kill people, and to kill 'em dead. Doing so with "mercy and remorse" is probably a bit problematic. Should every soldier drawing down on an enemy combatant be in a constant state of showing mercy and remorse every time they see a terrorist getting ready to, say, blow up civilians?

The gunner did his job. He just... did it against the wrong people. In a war zone, shit happens. It's just that now we get to see it all on video, and can armchair quarterback.

that is not the *impression* I get.

Which impression?

In 250,000 documents, expect there to be a *lot* that is outright embarassing, and expect to see a lot more that'll be taken out of context. And expect to see a lot of idle speculation in memos that turned out to either be right on target (through random chance/dumb luck), or which will fit into various conspiracy theories. Look at 9/11... with hundreds of thousands of recorded conversations that day, there were a few "suspicious" ones (like a firefighter saying to "pull" WTC7... the term meaning to pull the firefighters out, but demolitions experts - which the firefighter wasn't - use the same term to mean somethign very different). And those few suspicious ones have fed an entire industry.

Wikileaks is gonna make *somebody* freakin' rich, writing nonsense for the conspiratorialists.