Which tanks store most of its ammunition away from the crew?

helmutkohl

helmutkohl

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I know the Abrams can store most if not all of its ammunition in its turret bustle away from the crew, with a blast off panel if needed to contain fires.
I had thought most western tanks had done the same.

So I was surprised to learn that the Leopard 2 only stored some of it in the bustle, but that a majority was stored with the crew. Leading to cook offs in Syria, as with T-72s and other Soviet era tanks.

What other tanks besides the Abrams store most of its ammo away from the crew?
Off the top of my head I only know the Armata from Russia does.
it seems the K2 and Type 2 do not.

What about the Merkava 4?
 
In Merkava tanks, ammo is stowed at the rear, on each side of the access door.
 
The South African Olifant Mk1B and Mk2 also store most, if not all of its ammo in the tower bustles with blast-off panels. the never into production TTD developed in the early to late 1990's were the same.
 
Chieftain had some APDS rounds in the lower part of the turret rear, nothing combustible though as bag charges were in double walled and water filled units on the turret floor, as were HESH rounds but unprotected.
 
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Ukrainian T-84 Oplot stores ammo separate from the turret crew. It is difficult to tell from photos, but it appears that T-84 welded turrets have two layers of bustle added to the rea of the turret. The first layer looks to be welded armor while the second layer (rear) of turret bustle looks like corrugated sheet metal. These bustles are obscured by applique armor on many versions.
We are hoping that some one can provide photos or drawings detailing the T-84 Oplot's ammo storage and auto-loader.
 
riggerrob said:
Ukrainian T-84 Oplot stores ammo separate from the turret crew. It is difficult to tell from photos, but it appears that T-84 welded turrets have two layers of bustle added to the rea of the turret. The first layer looks to be welded armor while the second layer (rear) of turret bustle looks like corrugated sheet metal. These bustles are obscured by applique armor on many versions.
We are hoping that some one can provide photos or drawings detailing the T-84 Oplot's ammo storage and auto-loader.
Click to expand...
To my knowledge only the 120 mm armed T-84/120 Yatagan prototype offered to Turkey in the early 2000's uses a bustle-mounted autoloader holding 22 rounds, originally developed for the T-72/120 prototype by Morozov design bureau. The ordinary T-84 Oplot uses the Koržina (basket) revolver autoloader holding 28 rounds also used by T-64 and T-80. To my knowledge, the autoloader is mostly covered by steel plates in T-84s, T-80s and later T-64s and should thus be somewhat protected from the blast and splinters of a turret penetration (it is, however, vulnerable to a hull penetration). Even in the T-72, the greatest problem is usually not the 22-round casette revolver autoloader, which is fairly well protected, but the extra 20 or so round stored completely unprotected on the interior walls of the vehicle, as pointed out by @ChrisO_wiki on Twitter. I do expect Ukraine to develope the T-84/120 Yatagan further after the war, finances and the reconstruction of Kharkiv permitting, and a possible 130 mm armed, uparmoured version with modernised electronics and a further uprated engine (about 1500 hp should suffice) might become a future Ukrainian standard MBT.
 
The french AMX-56 "Leclerc" stores it ammo in hull and Turret but,
The ammunition based in the turret is separated from the crew by an armored bulkhead
to which external blast panels are integrated in the event of the tank receives a direct hit
 
I've heard that the Polish version of the K-2 tank being offered by Hyundai, has a more expanded turret, allowing all (or almost all0 of the ammo to be stored in the bustle like the M1
 
In the case of the Tiger II, there were ammo racks in the turret bustle but most of the time, even once splinter shields were installed, crews generally didn't use these because of their vulnerability to damage.

1654747741970.png

While that's a model version, it gives you some idea of the issue here.
 
Anyone store them underneath- between treads? Rolling-Skirts over those. Those and metalstorm shell tubes fall away.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
In the case of the Tiger II, there were ammo racks in the turret bustle but most of the time, even once splinter shields were installed, crews generally didn't use these because of their vulnerability to damage.

View attachment 679343

While that's a model version, it gives you some idea of the issue here.
Click to expand...
The weight of all that ammo also helps to balance the weight of the long 88 mm gun hanging from the front of the turret. Balancing the turret eases the work-load on traversing gear, especially when parked sideways on a slope.
 
I have read that the South Korean K1A1 stores all of its main gun ammunition in the turret bustle. I have also read that the Turkish Altay does as well. Can anyone confirm if the Altay does?
 
riggerrob said:
T. A. Gardner said:
In the case of the Tiger II, there were ammo racks in the turret bustle but most of the time, even once splinter shields were installed, crews generally didn't use these because of their vulnerability to damage.

View attachment 679343

While that's a model version, it gives you some idea of the issue here.
Click to expand...
The weight of all that ammo also helps to balance the weight of the long 88 mm gun hanging from the front of the turret. Balancing the turret eases the work-load on traversing gear, especially when parked sideways on a slope.
Click to expand...
Until all the ammos gone <<wink>>

But after seeing the videos of what is happening to the Russian tanks, does it really make a difference ?
 
Zaskar24 said:
I have read that the South Korean K1A1 stores all of its main gun ammunition in the turret bustle. I have also read that the Turkish Altay does as well. Can anyone confirm if the Altay does?
Click to expand...

I believe no tank besides the Abrams, carries all of it in the turret bustle.
most western ones do a split, like the Leopard

I've heard the K2PL may carry all of it in the turret bustle. the K2PL is supposed to be larger than the standard K2
but I've read other rumors that most will be in the bustle, but the rest in between the crew and the engine. We dont know since it's not built yet.

I've also heard the Challenger 3 as well, but nothing confirmed. its a new design.
 
helmutkohl said:
Zaskar24 said:
I have read that the South Korean K1A1 stores all of its main gun ammunition in the turret bustle. I have also read that the Turkish Altay does as well. Can anyone confirm if the Altay does?
Click to expand...

I believe no tank besides the Abrams, carries all of it in the turret bustle.
most western ones do a split, like the Leopard

I've heard the K2PL may carry all of it in the turret bustle. the K2PL is supposed to be larger than the standard K2
but I've read other rumors that most will be in the bustle, but the rest in between the crew and the engine. We dont know since it's not built yet.

I've also heard the Challenger 3 as well, but nothing confirmed. its a new design.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about the Challenger 3 because of the ammunition configuration change. It will be interesting to see what the K2PL will end up looking like. It is doing away with the autoloader, correct? This change would free up room in the bustle just from the deletion of the autoloader equipment.
 
The John Cockerill 3105 turret mounts a British 105mm turret in a two-man turret that includes ammo stowed in the turret bustle and an auto-loader. ... not clear if a bulkhead separates the bustle from the turret crew.
It is a quick drop-in conversion that only needs a simple bespoke turret-ring to bolt onto a stock Leopard I hull.
The main gun can elevate to 35 or is it 45 degrees. That extra elevation is great for fighting in mountains or cities.
 

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