What make guerrilla warfare so effective against modern militaries ?

What make guerrilla warfare so effective against modern militaries ?

  • Law of war are more strict nowadays, civilians casualty must be avoided

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Modern personnel weapons are more destructive making guerrilla troops significantly more dangerous

    Votes: 5 33.3%

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    15

Ronny

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So in the past, empire such as the Ottomans, the Mongol , the Romans ..etc was able to control massive land area with pretty much just ancient simple weapon like bows, spears, swords. The troops were either fighting on horse back or on foot, but they were very effective at taking and holding territories. Guerrilla warfare at that time were either rare or largely ineffective against orthodox military even though the weapons used by guerrilla fighters and countries troops are very similar (making spears/bows are simple enough).
But in modern times, despite the huge advancement in military technologies and there are such big different between orthodox military weapons (such as Tanks, fighter jet, attack helicopter, destroyers) and Guerrilla fighters weapons (such as IED, RPG, Manpads, rifles). Now guerrilla warfare just seem extremely effective that even a large nation with much better weapons are struggling to take over small peace of land controlled by guerrilla fighters. So what are the reasons for that?
 
One thing I've noticed is a pattern of the public glorifying insurgents as freedom fighters and being harder to get behind counter-insurgency. I think it partly comes from worrying about neo-colonialism and wanting to think we've moved beyond wars.
 
There wasn't much thought given to civilian casualties in times past.

Read what Charlemagne did to the Saxons or Germans to the Prussian tribes.

They were playing for keeps and there was no internet to beam images of Roman's slaughtering an entire rule village to media outlets around the globe.
 
Look at Stalins response to the Ukranian Kulaks who would not get with the program.

He just starved them out. Millions of them. It's hard to mount an effective insurgency when you haven't eaten for a few months.

Brutal but effective.

I have no doubt taking away a populations food and water resources were part of the "anti-insurgency handbook" of past times.
 
I think the question being asked is probably flawed. Insurgencies (even quite capable ones) are not in fact especially effective against effective modern militaries. And an insurgency solely targeted against a modern military is almost bound to loose.

In practice Insurgencies are generally primarily aimed at the infrastructure and operation of a state or occupation civil apparatus, and the wider civil-society of that state or those co-operating with an occupation.

What insurgencies also do in parallel is inflict a level of attrition on the state or occupation military while continually denying the state or occupation military a military solution/ victory in respect to the insurgencies primary focus/ activity as noted above.

There are of course differences of focus and activity for one insurgency versus another. However insurgencies are best not seen as primarily a military problem but as primarily a political problem with a military component that primarily needs a political solution that in many cases is also likely to have a military component.

And leaning on the military rather than political side of the equation (or just pretending there isn’t a political component) may well just make an effective solution harder/ practically impossible to arrive at.
 
I think the question being asked is probably flawed. Insurgencies (even quite capable ones) are not in fact especially effective against effective modern militaries. And an insurgency solely targeted against a modern military is almost bound to loose.

In practice Insurgencies are generally primarily aimed at the infrastructure and operation of a state or occupation civil apparatus, and the wider civil-society of that state or those co-operating with an occupation.

What insurgencies also do in parallel is inflict a level of attrition on the state or occupation military while continually denying the state or occupation military a military solution/ victory in respect to the insurgencies primary focus/ activity as noted above.

There are of course differences of focus and activity for one insurgency versus another. However insurgencies are best not seen as primarily a military problem but as primarily a political problem with a military component that primarily needs a political solution that in many cases is also likely to have a military component.

And leaning on the military rather than political side of the equation (or just pretending there isn’t a political component) may well just make an effective solution harder/ practically impossible to arrive at.

Almost all of this is wrong. The question being asked is flawed, I'll give you that, because it assumes politicians make smart decisions.

The first part to understanding a "counter-insurgency campaign" is to ignore anything written by modern Western armies and their sympathizers, because they consistently lose. What do they know? Nothing, clearly, or else they would have won in Afghanistan and Iraq. For one thing, "hearts and minds" is something you do prior to the COIN war, because it's to prove you have no ill intentions, whereas an insurgency assumes this automatically, so it's rather pointless.

Look at Socialist campaigns instead, like the kinds Stalin and the Ba'athists fought, in the modern (post-WW2) era. They mostly won.

As for counter-insurgency wars, they come in a few typologies. It's either a localized ethnic cleansing campaign like Indonesia's democide of the Indonesian Communist Party under Suharto with foreign support, or it's a foreign invasion and subsequent settlement of the area like the British in the Orange Free State.

Afghanistan and Iraq could possibly have been won if they'd been fought as annexations like the Indian Wars, for instance.

Promise every NATO soldier who fights in Afghanistan he will get 25 acres with a farmhouse, a robot donkey, and a wife, and suddenly you have much more serious investment in infrastructure and a more compliant population. The locals will need to go, though. Put them in micro-reservations surrounded by barbed wire on economically unvaluable land, like a Central Asian Oklahoma, or send them to neighboring countries. Once the settlers reach a certain critical point, it will be impossible to revert, and the situation inverts: the settlers become the natives and the natives become the colonizers.

That's how Andrew Jackson would have fought it, anyway, and he probably would have won after a few decades. America has a big economy, so it can sustain a serious colonization effort in a few places at once, but only if it wanted to. It has done so in the past, from the Louisiana Purchase to the Gadsden Purchase, so it's not a totally alien concept, just one alien to modern Westerners immersed in LOAC adjacency.

Incidentally, the capacity of the Native American tribes to survive as cultures behind enemy lines, for over 100 years, is astounding. So Andrew Jackson can probably be considered a counter-insurgency loser in that regard, but if we go by that metric, then no one has ever won a counter-insurgency war in history besides maybe the Romans in Iberia I guess.

Simply put, to win in insurgent wars, you actually need to be very gloves off, because you're ultimately exterminating a large portion of a population, because that population does not like you and never will. This is what Western counter-insurgents simply don't understand.

It's also why the most effective Western counter-insurgency campaigns have been via proxy elements, such as in Indonesia or Taiwan, while the Soviets were more effective in both direct interventions and proxy campaigns, with a few exceptions to either side of course.

On the whole, the Marxist understanding of insurgent warfare is far more comprehensive, as it recognizes the innate brutality of "COIN".

The appearance of automatic rifles, which allowed light infantry to produce high volume of fire. This made ambushes and hit-and-run attacks extremely efficient.

Mortars and land mines are probably more significant tbf.

FPV drones might give more serious anti-tank capacities (ability to hit moving targets) to insurgents with relatively limited expense too.

There wasn't much thought given to civilian casualties in times past.

Read what Charlemagne did to the Saxons or Germans to the Prussian tribes.

They were playing for keeps and there was no internet to beam images of Roman's slaughtering an entire rule village to media outlets around the globe.

I'm pretty sure Westmoreland and Zumwalt would be hanged for war crimes these days, or at least cashiered, considering what they did during Vietnam (not because they lost), and the same with Kitchener and Slim for the Boer War and Malaya.
 
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It seems to me that guerrilla warriers don't really fight a modern army to any measurable extent. Occupying armies are expected to perform what is really a police role and without the support of the civilian popuation they are going to do pretty badly.
 
Modern media is the main ally of guerillas/terrorists.
Coverage of events always benefits their cause irrespective of its validity. Attempts by governments to suppress media coverage simply feed the interest in the guerillas/terrorists.
Military action can be ruthless but if the political will of the government using force is undermined by hostile media coverage or even any media coverage the guerillas/terrorists will gain.
Some guerillas/terrorists like ISIS and White Supremacists disprove this but arguably media coverage of them is rarely sympathetic. Online media has changed even this.
 
Don't forget that the insurgents do not follow rules of engagement, nor do they have to positively identify targets etc.

Troops at the sharp end have to follow rules set by politicians more worried about being re-elected and keeping mistresses happy.
 
I think a big part of guerrilla warfare's effectiveness is that it is no longer economically worth it to "win" against insurgencies.

Historically in pre and early industrial age, population and territory was still a main source of wealth. In the modern era, deep integrated economic network and highly skilled workers have increasingly dominate value. That source of wealth can not be captured in destructive warfare and even moderate violence can destroy this source of value easily.

With war being a clear money sink one generally fight for ideological reasons and thus restrictive rules of engagement is the norm as it is needed to serve the ideology.
 
The last time the US was truly committed to winning a war was the FDR administration. There is an old saying nations fight wars armies just do the shooting. That is how we fought the second world war and the first before that. In Vietnam both LBJ and Nixon administrations shied away from asking the nation to sacrifice out of fear of losing popularity. Same thing happened after 9/11 with George W Bush. I country was not invested into the war.
 
Modern media is the main ally of guerillas/terrorists.
Coverage of events always benefits their cause irrespective of its validity. Attempts by governments to suppress media coverage simply feed the interest in the guerillas/terrorists.
Military action can be ruthless but if the political will of the government using force is undermined by hostile media coverage or even any media coverage the guerillas/terrorists will gain.
Some guerillas/terrorists like ISIS and White Supremacists disprove this but arguably media coverage of them is rarely sympathetic. Online media has changed even this.
During the 1970s, the media demonstrated that a tech empire can lose a war in the Third World just because of a photograph and that the most voted president in U.S. history can be removed from office using a tape. The media became a tool of power that everyone wanted to buy... And the bad guys won in the auction.
 
Possibly even worse, the Internet allows all the monkeys to get at the typewriters all the time. The resulting hubub makes it well nigh impossible to tell truth from fiction.
 
Don't forget that the insurgents do not follow rules of engagement, nor do they have to positively identify targets etc.

Troops at the sharp end have to follow rules set by politicians more worried about being re-elected and keeping mistresses happy.
Yes and the rules of war (Geneva and Hague Conventions) are very recent concepts, less than 200 years old. The first Geneva Convention only dates back to 1864. Furthermore, they only apply in Western European nations and the 5 Eyes (Britain and a few of her former colonies).
This is because - before the industrial revolution - europeans eventually figured out that farms and perhaps fishing villages were the only form of long-term wealth. Most european wars were fought to replace one prince with another prince. Ho hum. Half of the British kings did not even speak English.
European rulers eventually figured out that land - by itself - was marginally profitable. To be truly profitable, land also needed thousands of peasants/plowmen. Those plowmen would/could only resume plowing if most of them survived a war. Sure, plowmen might grumble about the new prince, but as long as the war did not kill too many peasants, they would pick up their plows come springtime.
Hence all the conventions (Geneva and Hague) that tried to limit civilian casualties.
This reminds me of a recent conversation with a Plains Cree neighbor (from Manitoba) who explained that during blood feuds between North American native tribes, men would be slaughtered, women raped and children enslaved. I re-assured him that was the norm among my ancestors (Western Europeans) 500 years ago.
 
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Don't forget that the insurgents do not follow rules of engagement, nor do they have to positively identify targets etc.

Troops at the sharp end have to follow rules set by politicians more worried about being re-elected and keeping mistresses happy.
The solution to the problem is near. Use robots instead of soldiers. It is unbelievable that at this point in the twenty-first century many soldiers in regular armies die from stepping on a landmine, as if they were still fighting in World War II. A robot can take the risk of identifying the nature of the target: civilian, regular soldier, guerrilla, insurgent or terrorist, and if the robot is destroyed, nothing is lost. The next robot will neutralize the enemy and take samples of their DNA for later identification.
 

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Geurrilla wars are usually asymmetric with poorly-armed rebels trying to oust a large, well-equipped army.
Twentieth century improvements in weapons (e.g. machineguns) and explosives - now allow small bands of insurgents/rebels/geurrillas to ambush and inflict injuries on conventional armies.
Since those weapons and explosives are expensive, they are normally smuggled in from some other nation that hopes to profit from the rebellion.
For example, in recent weeks (e.g. Shia Iranians smuggling weapons to Sunni Hamas and Hezbollah).
In more normal times, Shia and Sunni would be too busy shooting at each other, but Iran sees the current conflict as a way to inflict casualties on a third religious group: Jews.
IOW Iran is using Hamas and Hezbollah as cannon-fodder to do their dirty work of killing Jews. That fact that hundreds of Hamas or Hezbollah rebels die in battle is irrelevant to Iran.
The most successful insurgents also have powerful propaganda machines that glorify their victories. Meanwhile, large armies play the opposite game by suppressing media coverage of their casualties.
 
"What make guerrilla warfare so effective against modern militaries?" IMHO. there are several factors, but the first is, if the guerrillas have either the support or even neutrality of the majority of the population, so that their forces can blend into that population, identifying your opponent becomes very difficult , if not impossible. Look at the current fighting in Gaza. Without uniforms, how does one differentiate who is Hamas and who is a Palestinian civilian? Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, which makes up Hamas' armed wing, has an estimated 30,000–40,000 fighters. That is 2% or less of the total population. Already the IDF has possibly killed 15 to 20 thousand in Gaza. If those were all Hamas fighters, the war would be over. Why, because for every fatality, there is probably more than one serious injury. But. if I am correct, IDF has definitely erred on the side of identifying almost any thing that moves as the enemy, i.e. 3 unarmed, partially clothed Israeli hostages, waving a white flag. Most of the Hamas fighters are probably well dug in and have not suffered major casualties. Of course, IDF could simply kill everybody and that would be a decisive military victory.

However, war has several dimensions: geography, time, military resources, economics, and politics (and possibly several more). Even as aroused as the Israelis are over the violent attack of Oct 7, even they would probably not accept total annihilation of every living Gazan. Even more so for Israel's essential allies. So it will be politics and propaganda that determine just how far the massively superior IDF can go. I do not believe IDF will destroy Hamas, but will cripple Gaza for a very long time and incur a very powerful resentment for anything Israeli, both in Gaza and with it's many sympathizers and in addition, continued support for Hamas. So, in the end game, Hamas has won. If Netanyahu manages to sell his overwhelming IDF response as correct, it may also save his weak political position.

Thus, the second main factor is that very often, guerrilla objectives are not in the end, victory in the military sense. Hence, the success in attaining pure military objectives may result in what some would call a "Pyrrhic Victory".

ArtieBob
 
... in recent weeks (e.g. Shia Iranians smuggling weapons to Sunni Hamas and Hezbollah)...

Late for a reply, I know, but Hezbollah are Shia Islamists, not Sunni. Both the Iranian regime and Hezbollah would regard Hamas as 'rafida' but, in this case, I guess 'the enemy of my enemy' is more important to Tehran?
 
There is also a historical explanation: When the British realized that they could not defeat the Wehrmatch using conventional methods, they began a campaign of incitement to rebellion by the peoples conquered by Germany (whose armies had already formally surrendered according to the rules of war). Until D-Day they continued to stoke the revolutionary fire with the aid of weapons and parachuted agents over occupied Europe. The "anti-terrorist" response of the Germans was very cruel and only succeeded in making the situation worse in exchange for poor military results. After the war, resistance leaders held important political positions in Europe, and during the second half of the 20th century they created the narrative that terrorism was acceptable if it was considered a "national liberation movement"... a great gift for the KGB.:(
 
My country has been invaded so many times since 218 B.C. that we Spaniards had no alternative but to invent Guerrilla warfare. It is an asymmetrical combat tactic that has never managed to defeat the invaders but has prevented them from consolidating their dominance, making the occupation more expensive. Eventually everyone got tired and left. As for the effectiveness of the Guerrilla, I must say that it depends on the psychology of the invading people: in 1939 the Spaniards managed to expel the International Brigades (organized by the Soviets) after only 29 months of fighting, Napoleon resisted for eight years before discreetly withdrawing. By contrast, the Muslims who invaded us in 711 did not leave until 1492 (781 years). Maybe that means something in today's world. The Romans never left, they have been adapting thanks to the Church of Rome. As far as I know, we are the only country that has managed to expel the Soviets, the Muslims and the French.
 

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it depends on the size of the war for example, the partisan movement in Yugoslavia in WW2 ended with the death of 1.7 million Yugoslavs. In Vietnam war with 2 million Vietnamese killed, it's all about how strong the enemy is in the territory he occupied
 
There is also a historical explanation: When the British realized that they could not defeat the Wehrmatch using conventional methods, they began a campaign of incitement to rebellion by the peoples conquered by Germany (whose armies had already formally surrendered according to the rules of war). Until D-Day they continued to stoke the revolutionary fire with the aid of weapons and parachuted agents over occupied Europe. The "anti-terrorist" response of the Germans was very cruel and only succeeded in making the situation worse in exchange for poor military results. After the war, resistance leaders held important political positions in Europe, and during the second half of the 20th century they created the narrative that terrorism was acceptable if it was considered a "national liberation movement"... a great gift for the KGB.:(
Such an example is Tito, who left the USSR in 1936 for Spain, where he fought as a communist, in 1938 he returned to Yugoslavia and in 1941 began military actions against the Axis powers, after the war he was president until his death. Тhe same is true with Enver Hoxha in Albania
 
Possibly even worse, the Internet allows all the monkeys to get at the typewriters all the time. The resulting hubub makes it well nigh impossible to tell truth from fiction.
I used to know one
 

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