• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

VG Bizjets???

ChuckAnderson

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
188
Reaction score
14
Hi Everyone!

Does anyone here know if there are any REAL designs for any REAL swing-wing biz-jets?

I found one very nice aircraft but it turned out to be from a cartoon or some other similar place. (Damn, it was such a neat looking aircraft too!)

Any info on real swing-wing biz-jets would be most welcome!
Thanks!!

Chuck
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
2,996
Reaction score
491
Website
beyondthesprues.com
How about this Russian military conversion proposal - the late 1990s proposed conversion of Tu-22M-3 bombers into a business jet for 10-12 passengers:



Regards,

Greg
 

ChuckAnderson

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
188
Reaction score
14
GTX said:
How about this Russian military conversion proposal - the late 1990s proposed conversion of Tu-22M-3 bombers into a business jet for 10-12 passengers:



Regards,

Greg


Hi Greg!

That's pretty nice!
Thanks so much!

Chuck
 

Orionblamblam

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,901
Reaction score
1,134
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
Matej said:
However I dont know, how seriously was meant this proposal.

Reasonably. Gulfstream has spent the past several years working on it.
 

Attachments

  • gulfstream sst1.jpg
    gulfstream sst1.jpg
    12.3 KB · Views: 118
  • gulfstream sst2.jpg
    gulfstream sst2.jpg
    12.4 KB · Views: 121
  • gulfstream sst3.jpg
    gulfstream sst3.jpg
    31.3 KB · Views: 146
  • gulfstream sst4.jpg
    gulfstream sst4.jpg
    9.8 KB · Views: 120
  • gulfstream sst5.gif
    gulfstream sst5.gif
    12.3 KB · Views: 179

TinWing

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
888
Reaction score
49
Orionblamblam said:
Matej said:
However I dont know, how seriously was meant this proposal.

Reasonably. Gulfstream has spent the past several years working on it.

Gulfstream has been toying with the idea of a SSBJ since its early 1990s collaboration with Sukhoi.

I do have to wonder if the SSBJ is a perpetually doomed concept? If you couldn't make an economic case for the SSBJ when energy prices were at historic lows in 1998, how could anyone expect to launch such an economic and environmental monster in the next decade?
 

Archibald

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
1,720
First problem is the lack of a correct engine. Military engines are too maintenance costly. Modifying them would be to expensive for such a reduced market - 300 aircrafts only! -
adapting the core of a big civilian turbofan is too costly and the engine would be overweight for the aircraft.
Creating a brand new engine would be too expensive...

Even if this problem was solved, there's still the problem of fuel mass which already doomed Concorde. I remember an article on the Dassault project in Science&vie (aviation 1999). They noticed that 2/3 of the fuselage length were full of... fuel tanks.

don't forget the sonic boom problem... :(

It seem that supersonic civilian transport is a dead end :'( :'( :'(
 

frank

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
617
Reaction score
13
Why is the type of engine relaitive to having swing wings? I don't understand the relation here.




Archibald said:
First problem is the lack of a correct engine. Military engines are too maintenance costly. Modifying them would be to expensive for such a reduced market - 300 aircrafts only! -
adapting the core of a big civilian turbofan is too costly and the engine would be overweight for the aircraft.
Creating a brand new engine would be too expensive...

Even if this problem was solved, there's still the problem of fuel mass which already doomed Concorde. I remember an article on the Dassault project in Science&vie (aviation 1999). They noticed that 2/3 of the fuselage length were full of... fuel tanks.

don't forget the sonic boom problem... :(

It seem that supersonic civilian transport is a dead end :'( :'( :'(
 

agricola64

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
85
Reaction score
2
i know its fictional ..

but did anyone here (like me) ever consider the practicability of the Carreidas 160?

(from Tintin "Flight 714")

http://membres.lycos.fr/wings2/tintin/714/714_2.jpg
http://www.free-tintin.net/dessins/vol9d1b.jpg
http://www.free-tintin.net/dessins/vol8a2.jpg
http://modelbox.free.fr/dossiers/tintin/Tintin_P/img40.jpg
http://www.xplanefreeware.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1752
http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c373/Snow63/Carreidas%20160/

servus

markus
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,043
Reaction score
863
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) FSW/VG/QSP supersonic jet project from 2005. Being one of SSBJ alternatives studied, somehow this one became an final version of the design. Doubtless, too much Gundam was watched by design team.

AIAA 2005-1018
Conceptual Design of a Low Sonic Boom SSBJ
Shigeru Horinouchi
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, Tokyo

43rd AIAA Aerospace Sciences Meeting and Exhibit
10 - 13 January 2005, Reno, Nevada
 

Attachments

  • jaxa2005vgssbj-1.jpg
    jaxa2005vgssbj-1.jpg
    211.2 KB · Views: 83
  • jaxa2005vgssbj-2.jpg
    jaxa2005vgssbj-2.jpg
    82.4 KB · Views: 93
  • jaxa2005vgssbj-3.jpg
    jaxa2005vgssbj-3.jpg
    104.9 KB · Views: 81
  • jaxa2005vgssbj-4.jpg
    jaxa2005vgssbj-4.jpg
    124.6 KB · Views: 49

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,221
Reaction score
926
Old thread, but I just found something, I wouldn't have expected from
the Caholic University Washington D.C ..... ;)
Ok, they have a department of space science and applied physics, so, why
not design a VG bizjet ?
Some data : 4 GE 1/J1B engines with 8.500 lbs dry thrust and 15.000 lbs with
reheat, length 85 ft, span 57.5ft/38 ft (unswept/swept).
(From Avaition Week May 1967)
 

Attachments

  • cath-uni-VG-bizzjet.jpg
    cath-uni-VG-bizzjet.jpg
    21.2 KB · Views: 71
  • cath-uni-VG-bizzjet1.jpg
    cath-uni-VG-bizzjet1.jpg
    27.7 KB · Views: 72

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,367
Reaction score
2,532
Hi all! JAXA's SSBJ wind tunnel test model which test speed is mach 1.6.
 

Attachments

  • PANEL 1.JPG
    PANEL 1.JPG
    135.2 KB · Views: 62
  • UPPER FRONT 2.JPG
    UPPER FRONT 2.JPG
    96.2 KB · Views: 46
  • SIDE VIEW 3.JPG
    SIDE VIEW 3.JPG
    91.2 KB · Views: 39
  • UPPER  4.JPG
    UPPER 4.JPG
    68.2 KB · Views: 41

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,367
Reaction score
2,532
Other pictures. These pictures were taken in Pterosaurs exhibition in Tokyo.
 

Attachments

  • DSC00609.JPG
    DSC00609.JPG
    89.4 KB · Views: 30
  • UPPER 8.JPG
    UPPER 8.JPG
    66.8 KB · Views: 29
  • UPPER 7.JPG
    UPPER 7.JPG
    89.1 KB · Views: 32
  • FRONT SIDE 6.JPG
    FRONT SIDE 6.JPG
    54.9 KB · Views: 34
  • MID SECTION 5.JPG
    MID SECTION 5.JPG
    84.3 KB · Views: 38

XP67_Moonbat

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
2,160
Reaction score
55
Looks like somebody read the last pages of Brown's "Day Of The Cheetah" and took that as inspiration.
 

kenneth

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
any more information about the kentron design (reply 5) and cotholic university design (reply 11)? in particular, does kentron refer to the south african or u s company?
 

XP67_Moonbat

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
2,160
Reaction score
55
The JAXA SSBJ.....it's beautiful. :)

I've been on a Dale Brown kick lately with my extracurricular AutoCAD projects.


I think I may tinker the JAXA SSBJ. I'm turning that baby into the XF-5B Tracer. Described at the end of DAY OF THE CHEETAH as a medium-sized B1-like plane with wings that sweep forward and aft, I think JAXA's design sorta hits that book's concept right on the money.

Look out AutoCAD, here I come.

Moonbat
 

gtg947h

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
90
Reaction score
11
Archibald said:
First problem is the lack of a correct engine. Military engines are too maintenance costly. Modifying them would be to expensive for such a reduced market - 300 aircrafts only! -
adapting the core of a big civilian turbofan is too costly and the engine would be overweight for the aircraft.
Creating a brand new engine would be too expensive...

Even if this problem was solved, there's still the problem of fuel mass which already doomed Concorde. I remember an article on the Dassault project in Science&vie (aviation 1999). They noticed that 2/3 of the fuselage length were full of... fuel tanks.

don't forget the sonic boom problem...

It seem that supersonic civilian transport is a dead end

Engines: I've seen several proposals that call for using an in-service low-bypass turbofan like the JT8D or Tay.

Fuel:

Sonic boom: There are methods being researched to reduce the boom, basically involving airframe shaping and some things like the extended nose on the VG Gulfstream concept.

It's not a dead end; the biggest obstacle is the sonic boom issue. Nobody wants to buy a supersonic airplane that they can't fly supersonic most of the time. Solve that problem, and you have a market.
 

Just call me Ray

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
676
Reaction score
10
gtg947h said:
It's not a dead end; the biggest obstacle is the sonic boom issue. Nobody wants to buy a supersonic airplane that they can't fly supersonic most of the time. Solve that problem, and you have a market.

The biggest issue isn't the sonic boom, the biggest issue is money. A lot of money has been dumped into sonic boom research, but how many manufacturers are willing to dump the money to actually use that research to design and build a new plane design, especially in a market that right now isn't so hot for traditional, proven subsonic types?

And while we're on money, fuel is very expensive. Even the JT8D-215, the most fuel efficient of the series (and a true high-bypass engine) is considered a gas guzzler today, and that's just flying at subsonic speeds. Nevermind that it seems like certain groups either believe or are actively pushing for the extinction of aviation as a whole, it seems (Obama has made it a speech point to reduce the amount of flying miles)
 

chornedsnorkack

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
59
Reaction score
0
Just call me Ray said:
gtg947h said:
It's not a dead end; the biggest obstacle is the sonic boom issue. Nobody wants to buy a supersonic airplane that they can't fly supersonic most of the time. Solve that problem, and you have a market.

The biggest issue isn't the sonic boom, the biggest issue is money. A lot of money has been dumped into sonic boom research, but how many manufacturers are willing to dump the money to actually use that research to design and build a new plane design, especially in a market that right now isn't so hot for traditional, proven subsonic types?

And while we're on money, fuel is very expensive. Even the JT8D-215, the most fuel efficient of the series (and a true high-bypass engine) is considered a gas guzzler today, and that's just flying at subsonic speeds.

Yes, but if you have a look at the subsonic types, Gulfstream V or A39 Corporate Jetliner carry a tiny VIP payload relative to their total fuel burn, if you compare them with all-coach airliners of similar size. The buyers pay for the fuel, pay for the money and pay for the development. A true supersonic business jet would have a smaller cabin than a subsonic jet off similar fuel burn, but getting there faster would be worth it for its few VIP traveller. However, the issue is how much value they get for their money - it would be bad if they are restricted to subsonic flight overland.
 

Just call me Ray

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
676
Reaction score
10
chornedsnorkack said:
Yes, but if you have a look at the subsonic types, Gulfstream V or A39 Corporate Jetliner carry a tiny VIP payload

Yes, and that tiny VIP payload is under a lot of government scrutiny right now, especially the last time they tried to buy a corporate jet (Citigroup when they tried to buy a Falcon 7x).

It's just not a good time right now.
 

Apophenia

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,582
Reaction score
880
kenneth said:
... does kentron refer to the south african or u s company?

US. For earlier (and non-VG) NASA/Kentron work see: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4786.msg39556/
 

Similar threads

Top