USAF/USN 6th Gen Fighters - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS News & Analysis [2008- 2025]

[TomcatViP]

Probably not much more than some fancy tattoo*


*Make you blend in the background

 

[Forest Green]

Bends light and radio waves around the aircraft when activated. *Crosses fingers.*

 

[Firefinder]

My money on it doing something similar to Yhudia Lights.

Makes it harder for eyes and cameras to distinguish it from the sky.

Handy with how all new weapons have advanced image processors to track shit...

 

[Bhurki]

Enough range to not need a tanker!!
Hmm..

Brown: KC-Y and KC-Z Likely Traditional Tankers; NGAD Has the Range 'to Go Where it Needs to Go' | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Air Force probably won’t pursue some exotic approach for the KC-Y and KC-Z tranches of the service's plan to modernize its tankers.

www.airforcemag.com

Brown brushed that notion aside, however, saying the Next Generation Air Dominance family of systems, intended to operate inside an enemy integrated air defense system (IADS), will have “the range to go where it needs to go” and that an escort tanker is probably not needed. Brown specifically said, “I wouldn’t call [KC-Z] an escort tanker.”

 

[Forest Green]

F-22 Being Used To Test Next Generation Air Dominance 'Fighter' Tech

The F-22 is being used to test Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) capabilities and Raptors will also receive tech from the NGAD program.

www.thedrive.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514701447690031133

View: https://twitter.com/PaintingSurfer/status/1514701447690031133

 

[Sundog]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517722479615037440

View: https://twitter.com/MIL_STD/status/1517722479615037440


Maybe that shiny coating we saw on the F-22 was actually a first hint of the surfacing we will see on the NGAD?

That skin looks mighty interesting, what does it do?

My guess is they're lights to adjust the brightness of the vehicle to match the scattered light at whatever alt it is at. AKA, active camo. The reason I think you see this being tested, and the "chrome" being tested, is they're testing active systems versus passive systems to determine which is more effective. I'm sure they're aimed at NGAD, as noted at TWZ, but wouldn't be surprised to see the tech end up on F-22s and F-35s, especially since we've seen both sporting some from of the passive variant of the camo.

 

[rooster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517722479615037440

View: https://twitter.com/MIL_STD/status/1517722479615037440


Maybe that shiny coating we saw on the F-22 was actually a first hint of the surfacing we will see on the NGAD?

That skin looks mighty interesting, what does it do?

My guess is they're lights to adjust the brightness of the vehicle to match the scattered light at whatever alt it is at. AKA, active camo. The reason I think you see this being tested, and the "chrome" being tested, is they're testing active systems versus passive systems to determine which is more effective. I'm sure they're aimed at NGAD, as noted at TWZ, but wouldn't be surprised to see the tech end up on F-22s and F-35s, especially since we've seen both sporting some from of the passive variant of the camo.

About 14 years ago on some science show, they showed electro luminescent panels nearly as thin as a thick paint coat that would glow extremely bright with applied voltage... Practically any color. They showed it on a car but the implication was clear it could of would be used in aircraft..... It seems to have gone black because I cannot find hide nor hair of it online anyplace with any browser or key words. Looks like it's been applied to the raptor if I guess at what those panels are. Its the21st century project "yahooti". But they could also be just a new type of ram because those panels require a lot of wires added to the raptor which may not be feasible after the airframe is complete

 

[Avimimus]

A tailless design with a weird tiled chrome ram would make this aircraft look... well... as scifi as it is revolutionary.

 

[Bounce]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517722479615037440

View: https://twitter.com/MIL_STD/status/1517722479615037440


Maybe that shiny coating we saw on the F-22 was actually a first hint of the surfacing we will see on the NGAD?

That skin looks mighty interesting, what does it do?

My guess is they're lights to adjust the brightness of the vehicle to match the scattered light at whatever alt it is at. AKA, active camo. The reason I think you see this being tested, and the "chrome" being tested, is they're testing active systems versus passive systems to determine which is more effective. I'm sure they're aimed at NGAD, as noted at TWZ, but wouldn't be surprised to see the tech end up on F-22s and F-35s, especially since we've seen both sporting some from of the passive variant of the camo.

About 14 years ago on some science show, they showed electro luminescent panels nearly as thin as a thick paint coat that would glow extremely bright with applied voltage... Practically any color. They showed it on a car but the implication was clear it could of would be used in aircraft..... It seems to have gone black because I cannot find hide nor hair of it online anyplace with any browser or key words. Looks like it's been applied to the raptor if I guess at what those panels are. Its the21st century project "yahooti". But they could also be just a new type of ram because those panels require a lot of wires added to the raptor which may not be feasible after the airframe is complete

View: https://youtu.be/499TkWOl4PM


BMW showed it off a few months ago.

 

[red admiral]

How does changing colour help vs IR sensors?

 

[Forest Green]

How does changing colour help vs IR sensors?

Maybe there's more to it than that.

 

[MihoshiK]

How does changing colour help vs IR sensors?

It doesn't really, but DIRCM is slowly becoming a thing, and that DOES helps against IR sensors. Meanwhile this might help against imaging sensors, like what Javelin uses.

 

[Josh_TN]

I suspect the coating is aimed at the IR spectrum, not the visible light spectrum. If you want to make an aircraft hard to spot in visual light all you would need is some LED white lights to drown out the background light; this was experimented with as far back as WWII.

 

[Sferrin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517722479615037440

View: https://twitter.com/MIL_STD/status/1517722479615037440


Maybe that shiny coating we saw on the F-22 was actually a first hint of the surfacing we will see on the NGAD?

That skin looks mighty interesting, what does it do?

My guess is they're lights to adjust the brightness of the vehicle to match the scattered light at whatever alt it is at. AKA, active camo. The reason I think you see this being tested, and the "chrome" being tested, is they're testing active systems versus passive systems to determine which is more effective. I'm sure they're aimed at NGAD, as noted at TWZ, but wouldn't be surprised to see the tech end up on F-22s and F-35s, especially since we've seen both sporting some from of the passive variant of the camo.

About 14 years ago on some science show, they showed electro luminescent panels nearly as thin as a thick paint coat that would glow extremely bright with applied voltage... Practically any color. They showed it on a car but the implication was clear it could of would be used in aircraft..... It seems to have gone black because I cannot find hide nor hair of it online anyplace with any browser or key words. Looks like it's been applied to the raptor if I guess at what those panels are. Its the21st century project "yahooti". But they could also be just a new type of ram because those panels require a lot of wires added to the raptor which may not be feasible after the airframe is complete

Nope, video is still there. And it's probably not what you think. It's electroluminescent PAINT. It lights up when a charge is applied but it can't change color.

 

[Hood]

I remember there being an article in Flight International about 10 years ago about that kind of visual camouflage technology, so its certainly something that has been worked on/desired for some time (well its been the holy grail since 1915 with early transparent plastics replacing the canvas).

 

[Sferrin]

I remember there being an article in Flight International about 10 years ago about that kind of visual camouflage technology, so its certainly something that has been worked on/desired for some time (well its been the holy grail since 1915 with early transparent plastics replacing the canvas).

In theory you could apply that EM paint to a panel as a grid (think the RGB pixels on a monitor) and have a unique voltage controlling each "pixel". Like "digital camoflage" but one that could be changed.

 

[quellish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1517722479615037440

View: https://twitter.com/MIL_STD/status/1517722479615037440


Maybe that shiny coating we saw on the F-22 was actually a first hint of the surfacing we will see on the NGAD?

That skin looks mighty interesting, what does it do?

Reflects radar. Replaces something that is maint. intensive on existing aircraft.

 

[bob225]

BAE have a system in development, tested on a hawk and info on their website (admittedly its on a tank):

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/yehudi-lights.1384/

adativ-cloak-of-invisibility

 

[X-39]

NGAD Price Per Tail Will More Than Double That of F-35 | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance manned platform, or NGAD, will be the most expensive fighter ever, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said.

www.airforcemag.com

The manned fighter aircraft that will form the centerpiece of the Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance program will cost hundreds of millions of dollars per plane, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall told members of Congress on April 27—but the service can reduce costs in development and sustainment.


Speaking before the House Armed Services Committee on the fiscal 2023 budget request, Kendall specified that the main NGAD fighter would cost “multiple hundreds of millions of dollars … on an individual basis,” acknowledging that such a price tag “is a number that’s going to get your attention.”

 

[F-2]

NGAD Price Per Tail Will More Than Double That of F-35 | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance manned platform, or NGAD, will be the most expensive fighter ever, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said.

www.airforcemag.com

The manned fighter aircraft that will form the centerpiece of the Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance program will cost hundreds of millions of dollars per plane, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall told members of Congress on April 27—but the service can reduce costs in development and sustainment.


Speaking before the House Armed Services Committee on the fiscal 2023 budget request, Kendall specified that the main NGAD fighter would cost “multiple hundreds of millions of dollars … on an individual basis,” acknowledging that such a price tag “is a number that’s going to get your attention.”

I mean so was the Raptor

 

[Avimimus]

NGAD Price Per Tail Will More Than Double That of F-35 | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance manned platform, or NGAD, will be the most expensive fighter ever, Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said.

www.airforcemag.com

But what if we make it tailless?

 

[X-39]

I mean so was the Raptor

Sounds like an individual 6th gen will cost no less than 200-300mil according to the article. Not that it hadn't been predicted in the past. https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...pensive-price-tag-for-next-air-force-fighter/

By comparison, the F-22 cost roughly $135 million per tail, making it the most expensive fighter the U.S. Air Force has ever developed. NGAD, according to Kendall’s estimate, will dwarf those costs

 

[X-39]

Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.

www.airforcemag.com

The primary aircraft of NGAD is likely to fly at least as high and fast as the F-22, meaning an upper ceiling of about 65,000 to 70,000 feet and a top speed of about Mach 2.8

Hmmm, is intending to give the Mig-31 a run for it's money believable in the 21st century?

Now retired, former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein said in 2019 that NGAD will be comprised of “five key technologies” that would not all “come together on a single platform” and would not all mature simultaneously. Goldfein did not enumerate the five technologies, but he later alluded to them including engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity.

NGAD is likely to remain highly classified as long as the Air Force can keep it that way. Kendall, taking a page from Cold War practice, has said he’s reluctant to share the shape and features of future combat aircraft lest the U.S. provide its opponents with a “head start” on developing countermeasures.

Good. Keep it secret, keep it safe!

 

[FighterJock]

Let's hope that the USAF keeps the final design of the NGAD classified until it reaches IOC like they did with the F-117A.

 

[Flyaway]

Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.

www.airforcemag.com

The primary aircraft of NGAD is likely to fly at least as high and fast as the F-22, meaning an upper ceiling of about 65,000 to 70,000 feet and a top speed of about Mach 2.8

Hmmm, is intending to give the Mig-31 a run for it's money believable in the 21st century?

Now retired, former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein said in 2019 that NGAD will be comprised of “five key technologies” that would not all “come together on a single platform” and would not all mature simultaneously. Goldfein did not enumerate the five technologies, but he later alluded to them including engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity.

NGAD is likely to remain highly classified as long as the Air Force can keep it that way. Kendall, taking a page from Cold War practice, has said he’s reluctant to share the shape and features of future combat aircraft lest the U.S. provide its opponents with a “head start” on developing countermeasures.

Good.

The problem with this is you have to be able to match the cyber warfare capabilities of your opponents, let alone more conventional elements of spy craft. Look at Australia they literally had to cancel a whole major drone program to finance additional cyberwarfare capabilities.

 

[FighterJock]

Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.

www.airforcemag.com

The primary aircraft of NGAD is likely to fly at least as high and fast as the F-22, meaning an upper ceiling of about 65,000 to 70,000 feet and a top speed of about Mach 2.8

Hmmm, is intending to give the Mig-31 a run for it's money believable in the 21st century?

Now retired, former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein said in 2019 that NGAD will be comprised of “five key technologies” that would not all “come together on a single platform” and would not all mature simultaneously. Goldfein did not enumerate the five technologies, but he later alluded to them including engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity.

NGAD is likely to remain highly classified as long as the Air Force can keep it that way. Kendall, taking a page from Cold War practice, has said he’s reluctant to share the shape and features of future combat aircraft lest the U.S. provide its opponents with a “head start” on developing countermeasures.

Good.

The problem with this is you have to be able to match the cyber warfare capabilities of your opponents, let alone more conventional elements of spy craft. Look at Australia they literally had to cancel a whole major drone program to finance additional cyberwarfare capabilities.

The answer to that problem is not to have any computers that are involved in top secret aircraft programs connected to the internet, then any hostile country cannot gain access to that information.

 

[GTX]

Look at Australia they literally had to cancel a whole major drone program to finance additional cyberwarfare capabilities.

The issue in Australia with the reallocation of funds from AIR 7003 Ph1 MQ-9B SkyGuardian buy for Project REDSPICE is more to do with the Govt over-committing themselves on multiple fronts. It is also not necessarily a done deal yet given there is an election underway.

 

[Flyaway]

Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.

www.airforcemag.com

The primary aircraft of NGAD is likely to fly at least as high and fast as the F-22, meaning an upper ceiling of about 65,000 to 70,000 feet and a top speed of about Mach 2.8

Hmmm, is intending to give the Mig-31 a run for it's money believable in the 21st century?

Now retired, former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein said in 2019 that NGAD will be comprised of “five key technologies” that would not all “come together on a single platform” and would not all mature simultaneously. Goldfein did not enumerate the five technologies, but he later alluded to them including engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity.

NGAD is likely to remain highly classified as long as the Air Force can keep it that way. Kendall, taking a page from Cold War practice, has said he’s reluctant to share the shape and features of future combat aircraft lest the U.S. provide its opponents with a “head start” on developing countermeasures.

Good.

The problem with this is you have to be able to match the cyber warfare capabilities of your opponents, let alone more conventional elements of spy craft. Look at Australia they literally had to cancel a whole major drone program to finance additional cyberwarfare capabilities.

The answer to that problem is not to have any computers that are involved in top secret aircraft programs connected to the internet, then any hostile country cannot gain access to that information.

Problem is I am not sure even air gaping computers these days means you can be free of espionage.

 

[FighterJock]

Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.

www.airforcemag.com

The primary aircraft of NGAD is likely to fly at least as high and fast as the F-22, meaning an upper ceiling of about 65,000 to 70,000 feet and a top speed of about Mach 2.8

Hmmm, is intending to give the Mig-31 a run for it's money believable in the 21st century?

Now retired, former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein said in 2019 that NGAD will be comprised of “five key technologies” that would not all “come together on a single platform” and would not all mature simultaneously. Goldfein did not enumerate the five technologies, but he later alluded to them including engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity.

NGAD is likely to remain highly classified as long as the Air Force can keep it that way. Kendall, taking a page from Cold War practice, has said he’s reluctant to share the shape and features of future combat aircraft lest the U.S. provide its opponents with a “head start” on developing countermeasures.

Good.

The problem with this is you have to be able to match the cyber warfare capabilities of your opponents, let alone more conventional elements of spy craft. Look at Australia they literally had to cancel a whole major drone program to finance additional cyberwarfare capabilities.

The answer to that problem is not to have any computers that are involved in top secret aircraft programs connected to the internet, then any hostile country cannot gain access to that information.

Problem is I am not sure even air gaping computers these days means you can be free of espionage.

To stop espionage these day's they should check potential employees political backgrounds thoroughly with a fine tooth comb and ban them from working on sensitive programs for good if they find anything suspicious, problem solved.

 

[TomS]

You're saying we should do background investigations for people with security clearances? Why didn't anyone ever think of that before?

 

[FighterJock]

You're saying we should do background investigations for people with security clearances?

I should have said before they got security clearances.

 

[TomS]

You're saying we should do background investigations for people with security clearances?

I should have said before they got security clearances.

You're not getting my point. People with clearances do get investigated before getting cleared and periodically thereafter. But it doesn't stop espionage. People are motivated to spy for so many reasons (money, ideology, blackmail, intimidation, deception, frustration, etc.) And people are very good at concealing their motives.

The level of effort and intrusiveness required to catch every single potential compromise is mind-boggling (read every cleared person's email every day, scan every single social media post, eavesdrop on all of their personal conversations, etc.)

 

[FighterJock]

You're saying we should do background investigations for people with security clearances?

I should have said before they got security clearances.

You're not getting my point. People with clearances do get investigated before getting cleared and periodically thereafter. But it doesn't stop espionage. People are motivated to spy for so many reasons (money, ideology, blackmail, intimidation, deception, frustration, etc.) And people are very good at concealing their motives.

The level of effort and intrusiveness required to catch every single potential compromise is mind-boggling (read every cleared person's email every day, scan every single social media post, eavesdrop on all of their personal conversations, etc.)

Thanks TomS.

 

[Avimimus]

You're saying we should do background investigations for people with security clearances?

I should have said before they got security clearances.

You're not getting my point. People with clearances do get investigated before getting cleared and periodically thereafter. But it doesn't stop espionage. People are motivated to spy for so many reasons (money, ideology, blackmail, intimidation, deception, frustration, etc.) And people are very good at concealing their motives.

The level of effort and intrusiveness required to catch every single potential compromise is mind-boggling (read every cleared person's email every day, scan every single social media post, eavesdrop on all of their personal conversations, etc.)

It is also easier to fake being 'ideologically pure' than it is to fake a complex set of political and ethical beliefs. In some cases it is easier for a spy to pass political background checks than it is for a loyal citizen to.

It also occurs to me that someone with a simplistic 'my side right-or-wrong' perspective might be loyal when hired, but if they do switch sides, might go over entirely to the other side. Someone with more complicated loyalties might be less likely to completely go over to the other side after a personal crisis.

It isn't simple to do that kind of vetting.

 

[Sferrin]

Piecing Together the NGAD Puzzle | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The Next-Generation Air Dominance family of systems remains highly classified. But some details are beginning to emerge.

www.airforcemag.com

The primary aircraft of NGAD is likely to fly at least as high and fast as the F-22, meaning an upper ceiling of about 65,000 to 70,000 feet and a top speed of about Mach 2.8

Hmmm, is intending to give the Mig-31 a run for it's money believable in the 21st century?

Now retired, former Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein said in 2019 that NGAD will be comprised of “five key technologies” that would not all “come together on a single platform” and would not all mature simultaneously. Goldfein did not enumerate the five technologies, but he later alluded to them including engines, weapons, sensors, artificial intelligence, and connectivity.

NGAD is likely to remain highly classified as long as the Air Force can keep it that way. Kendall, taking a page from Cold War practice, has said he’s reluctant to share the shape and features of future combat aircraft lest the U.S. provide its opponents with a “head start” on developing countermeasures.

Good.

The problem with this is you have to be able to match the cyber warfare capabilities of your opponents, let alone more conventional elements of spy craft. Look at Australia they literally had to cancel a whole major drone program to finance additional cyberwarfare capabilities.

The answer to that problem is not to have any computers that are involved in top secret aircraft programs connected to the internet, then any hostile country cannot gain access to that information.

Problem is I am not sure even air gaping computers these days means you can be free of espionage.

To stop espionage these day's they should check potential employees political backgrounds thoroughly with a fine tooth comb and ban them from working on sensitive programs for good if they find anything suspicious, problem solved.

We had a guy years ago that could barely string two words of English together (even his emails were attrocious). He got caught poking his nose where it didn't belong, and shown the door, but it left a number of us wondering if ANYBODY had bothered looking into his background. Given you were supposed to be a US citizen to even work for the company it was inexcusable. There have been a number of individuals since then that made one ask "WTF?" and they also ended up getting shit-canned. And yes, they were all Chinese.

 

[Zoomer]

Okay I have a question.
Since NGAD won't have to dogfight or intercept, why not make it a flying wing? Stealth would be dramatically improved.

 

[Bounce]

Okay I have a question.
Since NGAD won't have to dogfight or intercept, why not make it a flying wing? Stealth would be dramatically improved.

They can't do supersonic speeds, would need some form of retracting vert stabs I guess it adds complexity/weight etc.

Someof the 6th gen concept images floating around have this, lots of Chinese fan art too.

 

[Zoomer]

Okay I have a question.
Since NGAD won't have to dogfight or intercept, why not make it a flying wing? Stealth would be dramatically improved.

They can't do supersonic speeds, would need some form of retracting vert stabs I guess it adds complexity/weight etc.

Someof the 6th gen concept images floating around have this, lots of Chinese fan art too.

Yeah, not flying wing. More like a tailless design. Most concept images are tailless btw. For a tailless design you probably need canards or retractable vert stabs. Or you can build a more conventional design with a wide V-tail like the F-23.

But some concepts are completely tailless. Is this really possible?

 

[X-39]

(Paywall AWIN subscription required)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521231076873621507

View: https://twitter.com/beverstine/status/1521231076873621507?s=20&t=ZO2F7836uoAAN7SCFswARw

Among Kendall’s seven operational imperatives are uncrewed aircraft that will escort manned aircraft. “I want to go directly to EMD [engineering and manufacturing development] on that,” he said. “The technology is mature enough that we can gamble on that, take some risks there, and move out quickly. So we’re not going to wait for a round of risk reduction experiments. We will conduct them in parallel with the work we need to do to get a platform moving forward.”

Kendall: USAF to Discard 386-Squadrons Goal, Skip Demo Phase for New Autonomous Aircraft | Air & Space Forces Magazine

Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said he is more interested in quality systems to deter an adversary than the size of the force structure.

www.airforcemag.com

 

[Bounce]

Okay I have a question.
Since NGAD won't have to dogfight or intercept, why not make it a flying wing? Stealth would be dramatically improved.

They can't do supersonic speeds, would need some form of retracting vert stabs I guess it adds complexity/weight etc.

Someof the 6th gen concept images floating around have this, lots of Chinese fan art too.

Yeah, not flying wing. More like a tailless design. Most concept images are tailless btw. For a tailless design you probably need canards or retractable vert stabs. Or you can build a more conventional design with a wide V-tail like the F-23.

But some concepts are completely tailless. Is this really possible?

At this stage im still half expecting it to come out with conventional vert stabs, and China would have spent years wasting time with disinfo.