• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

US Supersonic Transport(SST) Program post-1971

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
368
Here are some HSCT (High Speed Civil Transport) Designs from Aviation Week.

HSCT-1.jpg


HSCT-2.jpg


HSCT-3.jpg
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Skybolt, KL_Lesnick, Flateric and Jozef. I scanned some post-1971 US SST drawings from Japanese AVIATION JOURNAL magazine in 1984 to 1985. Among these drawings, T-tail VG design which SKybolt told us is included. It had full time stability augmentation system(SAS) and applied CCV technology.
 

Attachments

  • LANGLEY SST MODEL.jpg
    LANGLEY SST MODEL.jpg
    32.3 KB · Views: 1,044
  • LOCKHEED LH2 SST 1973.jpg
    LOCKHEED LH2 SST 1973.jpg
    116.5 KB · Views: 248
  • DOUGLAS AST 1976.jpg
    DOUGLAS AST 1976.jpg
    38.8 KB · Views: 238
  • BOEING SST 1976.jpg
    BOEING SST 1976.jpg
    39 KB · Views: 345
  • LOCKHEED SCV 1976.jpg
    LOCKHEED SCV 1976.jpg
    41.9 KB · Views: 331
  • LANGLEY SST ARROW 1973.jpg
    LANGLEY SST ARROW 1973.jpg
    33 KB · Views: 323
  • LANGLEY SST 1973.jpg
    LANGLEY SST 1973.jpg
    129.1 KB · Views: 970

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
155
Among these drawings, T-tail VG design which SKybolt told us is included.
Well, actually no. The T-tail I mentioned was an early-1968 Boeing design. Langley re-used the idea (BTW, their favorite one by then was SCAT 15F- based) to explore the tail-impingement problem. Anyway, thanks for the scans. The Boeing delta one was the blended-fuselage version of the 2707-300 that the company rejected for building and expecially security (emergency evacuation) problems.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
NASA's study in 1982. According to NASA, compered with same cross sectional area single fuselage, drug decrease in supersonic speed because of pressure interaction of each fuselage and structural weight is smaller. M shape wing type has best lift to drag ratio and followed straight middle wing type.
 

Attachments

  • NASA's study.jpg
    NASA's study.jpg
    45 KB · Views: 158

KJ_Lesnick

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
1,043
Reaction score
43
blackkite said:
NASA's study in 1982. According to NASA, compered with same cross sectional area single fuselage, drug decrease in supersonic speed because of pressure interaction of each fuselage and structural weight is smaller. M shape wing type has best lift to drag ratio and followed straight middle wing type.

Do you have any L/D ratio figures available for the Straight-middle-wing and M-wing type?
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Sorry I have no data about L/D of this design, may be NASA still keep the data.
 

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
155
No, it is simply drowned in tons of date they are releasing on the NTRS server. I have the relevant documents somewhere.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi all! This chart is based on JAXA's report.
 

Attachments

  • HSCT MODEL.jpg
    HSCT MODEL.jpg
    23.3 KB · Views: 154
  • JAPANESE DESIGN.jpg
    JAPANESE DESIGN.jpg
    18 KB · Views: 156
  • HSCT1.jpg
    HSCT1.jpg
    144.2 KB · Views: 185
  • HSCT.jpg
    HSCT.jpg
    81.4 KB · Views: 185
  • NASA HSCT.jpg
    NASA HSCT.jpg
    26 KB · Views: 171
  • HISTORY.jpg
    HISTORY.jpg
    193.3 KB · Views: 127

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi all! These drawings are NASA's study in 1971 to increase low speed performance using large trailing edge flaps and jet exhaust gas by engines position review. But the interaction between jet exhaust gas and the fuselage, and noise vibration fatigue are problem.(From Japanese AVIATION JOURNAL MAGAZINED in 1984.)
 

Attachments

  • NASA MODIFIED ARROW.jpg
    NASA MODIFIED ARROW.jpg
    31.8 KB · Views: 159

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Many thanks Skybolt! I knew this report about 25 years ago, and had very strong interest. Few years ago I wanted to get this report and asked GPO how to get this. But their answer was they did not treat this report. I disappointed very much that day.Today we can study this report. It is as a dream.
 

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
155
And now, for going graphical. These are some of the concepts developed by NASA (Langley) and contractors (Boeing, MDD, Lockheed, Kentron) in the frame of the SCAR/SRC research program, expecially in late '70s-early80's.
Of great interest is the business jet concepts, that was meant as a double-use configuration, i.e. supersonic cruise long range interceptor armed with guided missile. Both NASA/Kentron and Boeing worked on the concept (you'll recognize a well known pre-ATF Boeing concept...) . The Boeing blended depicted here was a further evolved configuration, ended in 1977. It had a 733 series designation, a 750.000 lbs MTOW and was meant for transpacific routes. I have a report on that. Will post detailed drawing and inboard details (new landing gear, too).
 

Attachments

  • Langley supersonic biz convertibel.jpg
    Langley supersonic biz convertibel.jpg
    468.2 KB · Views: 182
  • Boeing supersonic bizjet.jpg
    Boeing supersonic bizjet.jpg
    579.9 KB · Views: 196
  • Double fuselage final.jpg
    Double fuselage final.jpg
    523.2 KB · Views: 168
  • Lockheed arrow.jpg
    Lockheed arrow.jpg
    414.5 KB · Views: 159
  • Douglas arrow.jpg
    Douglas arrow.jpg
    458 KB · Views: 199
  • Boeing double deck.jpg
    Boeing double deck.jpg
    459.1 KB · Views: 214
  • Boeing Arrow Wing.jpg
    Boeing Arrow Wing.jpg
    515.1 KB · Views: 187
  • Boeing Blended.jpg
    Boeing Blended.jpg
    431.5 KB · Views: 162

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
SKybolt, many thanks again. These drawings are all seeing for the first time to me. Especially double decker is very impressive, seat miles per flight time may be very large. I also have Kentron SBJ's three view drawings which is little different from your post.
 

Attachments

  • kentron sbj.jpg
    kentron sbj.jpg
    55 KB · Views: 195

KJ_Lesnick

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
1,043
Reaction score
43
The Kentron/Langley SSBJ design looks like too much plane, too little cabin.

The cabin length is way too little for all that fuselage length
 

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
155
Actually it was an arrow wing SST reduced scale demonstrator disguised as an airplane with a practical "raison d'etre" to justify it from a political point of view. Remember that NASA had to change the name of the Supersonic Cruise Aircraft Research (SCAR) program dropping the "aircraft" to pass Congress opposition, since some powerful Congressmen suspected they were doing a new SST program disguised as a research program. For more in-depth info on this aircraft, you can refer to:
http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19860017806 and references therein (almost all still not available online, though).
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
Hi,

http://www.emse.fr/~leriche/MDOAFM/Summary_of_MDO_experience.pdf
 

Attachments

  • SST 3.JPG
    SST 3.JPG
    26.1 KB · Views: 276
  • SST 2.JPG
    SST 2.JPG
    6.5 KB · Views: 261
  • SST 1.JPG
    SST 1.JPG
    30.8 KB · Views: 296

Skybolt

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
155
Thanks Hesham, expecially for the references contained in the paper ...
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
Thank you my dear Skybolt,

http://aero-comlab.stanford.edu/Papers/juanjo.aiaa02-0144.pdf
 

Attachments

  • SST.JPG
    SST.JPG
    15.6 KB · Views: 237

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi all! NASA's S4T(scilent small supersonic transport). This plane has no horizontal tail stabilizer! The engine location is similar to Tu22 blinder.
 

Attachments

  • ssbj.jpg
    ssbj.jpg
    149.1 KB · Views: 311
  • ssbj2.jpg
    ssbj2.jpg
    176.1 KB · Views: 183

KJ_Lesnick

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
1,043
Reaction score
43
I liked the Boeing Arrow wing concept. That was truly beautiful and elegant.

KJ
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi! Low Boom Configurations. Enjoy.
Source:NASA/CP-1999-209699 High-Speed Research:1994 Sonic Boom Workshop
 

Attachments

  • LOW BOOM DESIGN.jpg
    LOW BOOM DESIGN.jpg
    107.9 KB · Views: 169

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
I found this Lockheed Mach4 SST design report from the NTRS. This report said that this design assumed no community noise or sonic boom constraints. But I think this design has good shape for low sonic boom. Specifications are as follows. Enjoy!
1.cruising speed : Mach4 at 75,000ft
2.range : 6,500n.m
3.passengers : 250
4.max taxi weight : 988,088 lb
5.L/D : 7.3@Mach4 , 13.7@subsonic
6.engine : advanced afterburning turbojet 111,000 lb each @sea level
Source:NASA Technical Memorandum 4223 Concept Development of a Mach4 High-Speed Civil Transport
 

Attachments

  • mach4 sst lockheed.jpg
    mach4 sst lockheed.jpg
    115.2 KB · Views: 210
  • mach4 sst detail.jpg
    mach4 sst detail.jpg
    172.2 KB · Views: 210

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,155
Reaction score
1,297
Orionblamblam has found it about 10 years ago, it was in paper APR.
Interesting that derivative of this design inspired an artist who was inventing NASA logo.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Oh! He did it. I love APR very much but I don't have the volume which report this design. Flateric, do you have any information about the engine of this plane?
 

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,155
Reaction score
1,297
To my sorrow, not...
 

Sundog

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
368
Actually, the Lockheed Martin design shown above looks like a derivative of a 1980's NASA design study, but I forgot the name of the woman who designed it at NASA; her's had six engines. Our senior aircraft design studies were based on the NASA High Speed Civil Transport (HSCT) study requirements and she was the representative from NASA that we had to give our presentations to for review.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Yes I know there are many super ladies in NASA, Langley,GSFC,JPL,etc.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi! NASA obligue wing sst.
 

Attachments

  • sst oblique.jpg
    sst oblique.jpg
    74.3 KB · Views: 182

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
Hi,

SST with the engines suspended above the wing.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19800004742_1980004742.pdf
 

Attachments

  • SST 3.JPG
    SST 3.JPG
    38.9 KB · Views: 219
  • SST 2.JPG
    SST 2.JPG
    36.3 KB · Views: 228
  • SST 1.JPG
    SST 1.JPG
    38.9 KB · Views: 264

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi hesham! Engines over the wing is good shape for low sonic boom. NASA S4T,Gulfstream ssbj, Aerion ssbj,JAXA SSBJ and SST adopt this concept.
 

Attachments

  • gulf.jpg
    gulf.jpg
    27.9 KB · Views: 304

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
Hi,

I think a SST version of Rockwell B-1,and incredible NASA SST aircraft
and oblique wing SST aircraft.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740009637_1974009637.pdf
 

Attachments

  • SST 8.JPG
    SST 8.JPG
    28.5 KB · Views: 125
  • SST 7.JPG
    SST 7.JPG
    31 KB · Views: 108
  • SST 6.JPG
    SST 6.JPG
    32.4 KB · Views: 109
  • SST 5.JPG
    SST 5.JPG
    39.2 KB · Views: 113
  • SST 4.JPG
    SST 4.JPG
    43 KB · Views: 138
  • SST 3.JPG
    SST 3.JPG
    33.8 KB · Views: 168
  • SST 2.JPG
    SST 2.JPG
    32.4 KB · Views: 194
  • SST 1.JPG
    SST 1.JPG
    37.8 KB · Views: 297

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
And;
 

Attachments

  • SST 16.JPG
    SST 16.JPG
    39.7 KB · Views: 109
  • SST 15.JPG
    SST 15.JPG
    35.9 KB · Views: 102
  • SST 14.JPG
    SST 14.JPG
    35 KB · Views: 94
  • SST 13.JPG
    SST 13.JPG
    33.5 KB · Views: 92
  • SST 12.JPG
    SST 12.JPG
    33.6 KB · Views: 87
  • SST 11.JPG
    SST 11.JPG
    42.7 KB · Views: 93
  • SST 10.JPG
    SST 10.JPG
    35.9 KB · Views: 110
  • SST 9.JPG
    SST 9.JPG
    34.3 KB · Views: 119

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi! Boeing's High Speed Civil Transport study in 1989.
Passengers : 250-300
Range : 5,000-6,500n.m.
Source : NASA Contract Report High Speed Civil Transport Study, Boeing Commercial Airplanes New Airplane Development
 

Attachments

  • engine2.jpg
    engine2.jpg
    384.4 KB · Views: 172
  • engine1.jpg
    engine1.jpg
    253.8 KB · Views: 180
  • boeing hsct4.jpg
    boeing hsct4.jpg
    151.4 KB · Views: 191
  • boeing hsct3.jpg
    boeing hsct3.jpg
    190.1 KB · Views: 190
  • boeing hsct2.jpg
    boeing hsct2.jpg
    184.3 KB · Views: 157
  • boeing hsct1.jpg
    boeing hsct1.jpg
    160.5 KB · Views: 155

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi! Douglas HSCT study.
Passenger : 300
Cruising speed : mach 3.2 to mach 5
Range : 3,900n.m(mach5) to 6,500n.m(mach3.2)
Enjoy.
Source : (1)NASA Contractor Report 4235 Study of High-Speed Civil Transport. Douglas Aircraft
Company December 1989
(2)DOUGLAS AIRCRAFT HSCT STATUS & FUTURE RESEARCH NEED May 1991
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19900004054_1990004054.pdf
 

Attachments

  • LOW BOOM.jpg
    LOW BOOM.jpg
    136.9 KB · Views: 151
  • DOUGLAS HSCT M5.jpg
    DOUGLAS HSCT M5.jpg
    236.1 KB · Views: 166
  • DOUGLAS HSCT LOW BOOM.jpg
    DOUGLAS HSCT LOW BOOM.jpg
    106 KB · Views: 153
  • DOUGLAS HSCT2 M3.2.jpg
    DOUGLAS HSCT2 M3.2.jpg
    204.4 KB · Views: 156
  • DOUGLAS HSCT M3.2.jpg
    DOUGLAS HSCT M3.2.jpg
    230.6 KB · Views: 156

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
Hi,

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19860017806_1986017806.pdf
 

Attachments

  • SST 1.JPG
    SST 1.JPG
    27.4 KB · Views: 105
  • SST 2.JPG
    SST 2.JPG
    42.2 KB · Views: 102

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,797
Reaction score
4,961
Hi,

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840019606_1984019606.pdf
 

Attachments

  • untitled.JPG
    untitled.JPG
    36.6 KB · Views: 88
  • Lockheed.JPG
    Lockheed.JPG
    23.1 KB · Views: 77
  • Executive jet.JPG
    Executive jet.JPG
    31.1 KB · Views: 89
  • Bo executive jet.JPG
    Bo executive jet.JPG
    27.2 KB · Views: 90
  • Douglas arrow wing.JPG
    Douglas arrow wing.JPG
    28.3 KB · Views: 86
  • Bo double deck.JPG
    Bo double deck.JPG
    25.2 KB · Views: 87
  • Bo blended wing.JPG
    Bo blended wing.JPG
    37.1 KB · Views: 80
  • Bo arrow wing.JPG
    Bo arrow wing.JPG
    28.3 KB · Views: 83

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,773
Reaction score
3,418
Hi! Lockheed/Langley Mach 2.4 HSCT study.It has trapezoidal panel wing and tailless configuration for low weight and high aerodynamic efficiency at cruise similar to British Aerospace AST, Aerospatiale ATSF and Tu-244.
1.Cruising speed : Mach2.4
2.Range : 6,500n.m
3.TOGW : 614,300lb
4.Engine : 4 advanced turbine bypass engine 39,000lb each
5.L/D : 9 @Mach 2.4
6.Passengers : 251
Enjoy.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20000013558_2000010539.pdf
 

Attachments

  • LOCKHEED HSCT 1999.jpg
    LOCKHEED HSCT 1999.jpg
    117.3 KB · Views: 107
  • LOCKHEED HSCT2 1999.jpg
    LOCKHEED HSCT2 1999.jpg
    136 KB · Views: 114
  • BRITISH AEROSPACE AST.jpg
    BRITISH AEROSPACE AST.jpg
    385 KB · Views: 145
  • AEROSPATIALE ATSF.jpg
    AEROSPATIALE ATSF.jpg
    158.2 KB · Views: 131
  • Tu-244.jpg
    Tu-244.jpg
    76.3 KB · Views: 136

OM

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
752
Reaction score
21
Website
www.io.com
...With regards to the oblique "scissor" wing variant, has anyone seen studies on stability with one engine out?
 

Similar threads

Top