• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

US space station

fockewulf261

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Back in 1960s or 1970s the US had a plan for a large space station, IIRC something like 5 miles in length, with a large ring of solar relectors at one end. Does anyone have any information or artists renditions of it? Thanks in advance.
 

OM

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
10
Website
www.io.com
..Gerald K. O'Neill's L5 station concepts. Do a Google search on "O'Neill" and "L5", and you should find quite a bit. May be a thread on here as well, so try searching for both terms.

UPDATE: Apparently they've retconned it to be referred to as the "O'Neill Cylinder":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/O/ONeill_type.html

http://www.nss.org/settlement/space/oneillcylinder.htm

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Space_habitat

http://space.mike-combs.com/gallery.htm

...But of course, the most famous example of an "O'Neill Cylinder" or "L5" colony is this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5_(space_station)

...Hope this all helps!
 

OM

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
10
Website
www.io.com
...Some images I had from the old V1 edition of OMBlog. Sorry, sources long since lost along with those blog entries, but this is probably what you're asking about:
 

Attachments

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
NASA looks that Idea
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Services/Education/SpaceSettlement/75SummerStudy/Table_of_Contents1.html

O'Neill Idea is very good, Build you own World
but the cost ::)
alone 500 Bilions US dollar only for Factory, Lunar base and contruction site


In Sci-Fi they came so popular,
like theAnime series GUNDAM
its became a Cliche..
that today a SF author is stoned with own books, if he dears to wright about O'Niel

But here some Sci-Fi Classic
Arthur C. Clarke "Rendez-vous with Rama"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendezvous_with_Rama
http://ebruneton.free.fr/rama3/rama.html
John Varley "Gaea trilogy" (Titan, Wizard, Demon)
who play on "Living" Stanford torus habitat
http://www.ammon-ra.com/gaea/main.html
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
sorry Justo
but that Island One and Two proposal by O'Niell
so called Bernal Sphere.

Island Three are the Big ones
6 km ø and 30 Km long cylinder

NASA/Ames study at Stanford University
take a critical look on Island One and overworked it to Stanford torus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_torus

the Picture show a Stanford Torus
from down to Top
Disk mirror for sunlight, the Tourus with windows, second set mirrors
hexagonal Solar panel, Central sphere, then Sphere for dock for spacecrafts
(not in picture is big Heatradiator) the long tube goes to zero-G Spacefactory
in background another Stanford torus and 2 Solarpowersat
the small withe spacecraft is a Space shuttle in same scale like Habitat
art by Don Dixon
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
I have french version of that book :D

the grafic of Stanford torus in detail

source:
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Services/Education/SpaceSettlement/75SummerStudy/Table_of_Contents1.html
 

Attachments

OM

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
10
Website
www.io.com
Michel Van said:
NASA/Ames study at Stanford University take a critical look on Island One and overworked it to Stanford torus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_torus
...But, but...it's *upside down*! ;D

O'Neill Idea is very good, Build you own World but the cost alone 500 Bilions US dollar only for Factory, Lunar base and contruction site
...And let us not forget that's in USD circa 1977 or thereabouts. Counting inflation, that's easily two to three trillion for just the factory and *maybe* the lunar base. On the other hand, most of that was stashed away in the Swiss bank accounts for all the oil, banking and other scumbag executives who've thrown the world's economy into chaos. I say just invade Switzerland, rob the banks of all their cash, and use it to start building one of these ;D ;D

In Sci-Fi they came so popular, like theAnime series GUNDAM its became a Cliche..that today a SF author is stoned with own books, if he dears to wright about O'Niel
...Here's a little known fact about Babylon 5 that most people probably won't know about. When JMS was in early pre-production of the pilot movie, he'd bounced around his concepts on several usenet newsgroups just to test the waters. When he mentioned that B5 would be an "L5 Colony" like Gerry O'neill's concepts. a *LOT* of sci-fi fans had the same reaction: either it was "too 70's cliche" or "Art Clarke already took this to the limit with Rama". Most of them suggested either a hollowed-out asteroid or the "Stanford Torus" as a more "rational, economical" approach to doing a giant space station(*). Thankfully, he didn't listen to those nay-sayers, but at the same time he did listen to some of those who commented that considering the hazards of space, having 1/2 of your total cylinder being dedicated to windows was just waiting for the biggest explosive decompression in history to happen. And Outland already did that once or twice.

(*) The concept of that giant mirror would have played total havok with the special effects department, although I could see it being used to have some fun with Draal's big energy beam ;D
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
OM said:
...Here's a little known fact about Babylon 5 that most people probably won't know about. When JMS was in early pre-production of the pilot movie, he'd bounced around his concepts on several usenet newsgroups just to test the waters. When he mentioned that B5 would be an "L5 Colony" like Gerry O'neill's concepts. a *LOT* of sci-fi fans had the same reaction: either it was "too 70's cliche" or "Art Clarke already took this to the limit with Rama". Most of them suggested either a hollowed-out asteroid or the "Stanford Torus" as a more "rational, economical" approach to doing a giant space station(*). Thankfully, he didn't listen to those nay-sayers, but at the same time he did listen to some of those who commented that considering the hazards of space, having 1/2 of your total cylinder being dedicated to windows was just waiting for the biggest explosive decompression in history to happen. And Outland already did that once or twice.

(*) The concept of that giant mirror would have played total havok with the special effects department, although I could see it being used to have some fun with Draal's big energy beam ;D
a hollowed-out asteroid like from Larry Niven "Belters" ::)
but but Babylon 5 as "Stanford Torus" :O

(for the special effects department, that no problem Babylon 5 was the First US serie used CGI.)
 

OM

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
10
Website
www.io.com
Michel Van said:
a hollowed-out asteroid like from Larry Niven "Belters" ::)
...On a side note, the original plan for the very first Star Trek movie idea, circa 1975 or thereabouts, called for the drydock not to be a framework of pipes and lights, but inside a hollowed-out asteroid.

Michel Van said:
but but Babylon 5 as "Stanford Torus" :O
...Personally, I don't think it would have been as interesting as the "O'Neill Cylinder" was for B5. There's a difference in the way volume and depth are perceived that wouldn't have translated as well with a torus. The Cylinder was the better choice, and one only has to compare Deep Space 9 to B5 to see it.

Michel Van said:
(for the special effects department, that no problem Babylon 5 was the First US serie used CGI.)
...Actually, at the time chrome mirrors caused problems for rendering engines circa 1993 when B5 was in its production start. By the time B5 was finished, the bugs in rendering chrome still hadn't been 100% worked out. That's why the shots you see in The Phantom Menace of Queen Amidala's "Chromebird" were done with an actual miniature covered in chrome for some shots.
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
here its the First Version Of O'Neill Island One
Called Sunflower ?
in the German Edition of T.A Heppenheimer "Colonies in Space"
its label "Sonnenblume"
 

Attachments

PMN1

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
737
Reaction score
82
OM said:
, but at the same time he did listen to some of those who commented that considering the hazards of space, having 1/2 of your total cylinder being dedicated to windows was just waiting for the biggest explosive decompression in history to happen. And Outland already did that once or twice.
From O'Neil's book 'The High Frontier'

They (the windows) will naturally be subdivided into small panels...A window panel may have an area two or three times that of the window of a jet aircraft....for panels of that size the loss of one will certainly not be catastrophic for the community. For what we have called Island One, if one panel were blown out entirely, it would be several years before the atmosphere would leak out'.

He suggests that the biggest danger is war or a lunatic wanting to commit suicide and take everyone with them.
 

OM

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
753
Reaction score
10
Website
www.io.com
PMN1 said:
From O'Neil's book 'The High Frontier'

They (the windows) will naturally be subdivided into small panels...A window panel may have an area two or three times that of the window of a jet aircraft....for panels of that size the loss of one will certainly not be catastrophic for the community. For what we have called Island One, if one panel were blown out entirely, it would be several years before the atmosphere would leak out'.
...Been a while since I read that book, and I'll have to grab a new copy next time I see one at the Half-Assed Book store. There's been a bit of criticism of this particular bit of Gerry's design, in that IIRC he never did show any math to back up the air leak rates. On the other hand, remember we're dealing with a scope and size that very few people can grasp, and nobody has ever come across in real life. He also doesn't appear to take into consideration any sort of "domino" effect - a window blows, the vacuum sucks a nearby desk through it, taking out the eight adjacent windows, which in turn sucks a tree out that takes out more adjacent windows, etc, etc. When you consider that a person can be easily sucked through a blown airliner window at only Angels 50...well, let's just say he was really being optimistic about those big honking windows.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,240
Reaction score
428
Omigod! So many memories! As a pre-teen I used to dream over this space station project, which was described as our possible future for something like 2002 I think. There were in fact other images from the same project way back then, and I wish I could find them once again...
 

Hammer Birchgrove

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
583
Reaction score
7
OM said:
PMN1 said:
From O'Neil's book 'The High Frontier'

They (the windows) will naturally be subdivided into small panels...A window panel may have an area two or three times that of the window of a jet aircraft....for panels of that size the loss of one will certainly not be catastrophic for the community. For what we have called Island One, if one panel were blown out entirely, it would be several years before the atmosphere would leak out'.
...Been a while since I read that book, and I'll have to grab a new copy next time I see one at the Half-Assed Book store. There's been a bit of criticism of this particular bit of Gerry's design, in that IIRC he never did show any math to back up the air leak rates. On the other hand, remember we're dealing with a scope and size that very few people can grasp, and nobody has ever come across in real life. He also doesn't appear to take into consideration any sort of "domino" effect - a window blows, the vacuum sucks a nearby desk through it, taking out the eight adjacent windows, which in turn sucks a tree out that takes out more adjacent windows, etc, etc. When you consider that a person can be easily sucked through a blown airliner window at only Angels 50...well, let's just say he was really being optimistic about those big honking windows.
However, as shown in an episode of Mythbusters, shooting an airliner's window will only create a single hole, not crack and destroy the whole window. Therefore, the pilot will be able to land without all air being sucked out.

That said, I don't know how this will relate to the space station you're discussing. :)
 

airman

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,211
Reaction score
80
Website
zeef.com
Stargazer2006 said:
Omigod! So many memories! As a pre-teen I used to dream over this space station project, which was described as our possible future for something like 2002 I think. There were in fact other images from the same project way back then, and I wish I could find them once again...
these concepts remind me animation series Gundam because creators of this anime had studied more concepts like these ! :)
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
airman said:
these concepts remind me animation series Gundam because creators of this anime had studied more concepts like these ! :)
of course it does,
the maker of Gundam read O'Neil's book 'The High Frontier'
they take O'Niel Island three
in later series and Spinoffs came the Stanford Torus
or invent new one like in "Mobile Suit Gundam Wing"
a spaceframe with each end a spinning Torus

i think they used also Dandridge Cole concept of asteroids transform into space habitat
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
here some intersting picture on O'Neill concepts by Don Davis

http://spacestudiesinstitute.wordpress.com/space-art/the-don-davis-high-frontier-artshow/

the attachment Picture show Dandridge Cole concept
source http://www.fabiofeminofantascience.org/RETROFUTURE/coleanalog.jpg
 

Attachments

mz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
681
Reaction score
8
By the way, there's a stability problem that if the thing is longer than its diameter, it will want to spin end on end (Explorer 1, Lyapunov and all that). Hence most modern research works with shells that have length similar to diameter. Fat short tubes.
 

Orionblamblam

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
7,848
Reaction score
1,053
Website
www.aerospaceprojectsreview.com
mz said:
By the way, there's a stability problem that if the thing is longer than its diameter, it will want to spin end on end ...
That's why the O'Neill colonies were designed to be *two* cylinders, side-by-side and linked by miles-long cross-bars on bearings. The artwork rarely depicted that, sadly.
 

airman

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,211
Reaction score
80
Website
zeef.com
Michel Van said:
airman said:
these concepts remind me animation series Gundam because creators of this anime had studied more concepts like these ! :)
of course it does,
the maker of Gundam read O'Neil's book 'The High Frontier'
they take O'Niel Island three
in later series and Spinoffs came the Stanford Torus
or invent new one like in "Mobile Suit Gundam Wing"
a spaceframe with each end a spinning Torus

i think they used also Dandridge Cole concept of asteroids transform into space habitat
Yes, i have seen this concept on sequel series of original Gundam !
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
1,864
From the astronautix.com article on the 'Dual Keel' Space Station linked to by magnus_z in another thread.





[IMAGE CREDITS: Encyclopedia Astronautica]​

Note: Most of these images relate to early configurations of the design. More images and info at the original article.​
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
magnus_z said:
bottom right :
'Dual Keel' space station

bottom left :
'Power Tower' space station

the other stamps show the Polar observation platform (top right)
and Man-Tended Free-Flying (MTFF) platform from ESA (second row)
the Satellite on first stamp is unknown to me
 

The Artist

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
630
Reaction score
243
Michel Van said:
airman said:
these concepts remind me animation series Gundam because creators of this anime had studied more concepts like these ! :)
of course it does,
the maker of Gundam read O'Neil's book 'The High Frontier'
they take O'Niel Island three
in later series and Spinoffs came the Stanford Torus
or invent new one like in "Mobile Suit Gundam Wing"
a spaceframe with each end a spinning Torus

i think they used also Dandridge Cole concept of asteroids transform into space habitat
I understand they used Syd Mead as a concept designer at one point and he certainly knew about O'Neil's concepts.
 

Michel Van

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,605
Reaction score
592
The Artist said:
I understand they used Syd Mead as a concept designer at one point and he certainly knew about O'Neil's concepts.
yes, he was concept designer for a Gundam spin-off series
but that was 20 year after the First episode of Mobile Suit Gundam was broadcast in 1979
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
1,864

NASA 1984 Power Roof Concept
[IMAGE CREDIT: NASA/ Wired.com]


Power Roof

Looking like something a kid might put together with an Erector set, NASA put together this “roof” space station concept in 1984. The roof was covered in solar panels capable of generating about 120 kilowatts of power, while the triangular body housed five modules for living and research.
 

robunos

You're Mad, You Are.....
Senior Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,877
Reaction score
216
Drifting OT, but from the link above,
take look at these...


http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/11/adorable-model-spaceships/?pid=2551&viewall=true


cheers,
Robin.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,473
Reaction score
3,339
Hi,


I can't ID this Space Station,was it from Lockheed or not ?,or it was just a hypothetical design.


L + K magazine
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,473
Reaction score
3,339
Thank you Barrington.
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
1,864
hesham said:
Hi,


I can't ID this Space Station,was it from Lockheed or not ?,or it was just a hypothetical design.


L + K magazine
Barrington Bond said:

Related to CL-635?

Stargazer2006 said:
CL-635 numerous space study efforts done for NASA (1964)
 
Top