US NAVY ATA (Advanced Tactical Aircraft) program: A-12 Avenger II & its rivals

Sundog

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A good A-12 website, JIC anyone didn't know about it. It has alot of pics of the full scale mockup, which has the proper canopy shape (As opposed to the models incorrect canopy shape) and you can see the inlet vanes/baffles behind the plexiglas, for good airflow control and to shield the engine faces.
 

overscan

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Indeed, a good site, but really poor scans unfortunately.
 

flateric

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I should add also that the first model pics that Overscan posted are in-house MDC/GD model from ca.1990, second pics series is a limited run model made for A-12 government litigation team using first model as a base - as well as set of contractor's declassified drawings.

As Sundog correctly mentioned, many models' details are not quite complify to the artist's renditions and to 'ultimate' desktop model - I mean full-size A-12 mock-up, which I'm considering 'source code' for any modelling effort.

BTW, do anyone knows current state of A-12 full-size mock-up?

Also, if someone do have this AWST issue ca.1990(91) with a beefy several-page article with first A-12 renditions published, I'll be happy if you can share it. I've just found out what our State Scientific&Techniclal Library does with magazine backissues....after 10 years...they throw it away...idiots...
 

hesham

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Good work dear overscan,

I have also an artistic picture to the rival proposal to A-12,
it was twin engined two seat canard aircraft project,and
the wing was look like Douglas F4D wing.
 

Matej

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Hesham, please can you post it? My first impression was that you are speaking about what-if drawing from Stealth Warplanes, but after checking I realised, that it is not a canard.
 

pometablava

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Hesham,

On Skunk Works, the first 50 years there are some designs of its AF/X proposals:

Lockheed/Boeing
Grumman/Lockheed
Rockwell/Lockheed

Grumman/Lockheed has canards, but I can't see the wing plan...

Are you talking about this?
 

Sundog

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The full scale Mock-Up, I think, is in a museum in Texas.

Also, if anyone has the book, Billion Dollar Blunder, their is a pic of the model of the Northrop design for the ATA program. It looks like a smaller version of the B-2 (The planform is more like the original B-2 layout, with a smaller aspect ratio) and the wingtips would bend up vertically for greater stability when the gear was extended.

I would love to 3D model this plane, but it has so many subtle curves, without good cross section drawings it would be about impossible to get it right.

BTW, Overscan, that first "official" model for GD-McDD that has the cockpit modeled, is there any chance you can get a pic of the lower back exhaust area? I'm just curious if what is on that model is what is also shown on the full scale mock-up, because it's always been my understanding that it is still classified.

Also, an interesting side note, the Air Force version was to have the exhaust above the wing, not below. If you recall the Navy was supposed to get a version of the ATF and the Air Force a version of the ATA. The Air Force told the Navy that with stealth they wouldn't need to penetrate below the RADAR OTD the way A-6's did, so they could put the exhaust on the top so it was shielded from below. But the Navy felt they needed to perform low level penetration so they kept them on the bottom to shield them from above. At least that's what was said. I think it actually had more to do with the exhaust sytem.

In one of my old AIAA Aerospace America magazines they had a CFD image of a "Delta Shaped Flying Wing" that looked remarkably like the A-12 in planform and in the CFD pic, the exhaust (Also in the same location as on the A-12) is shown vectored down and forward about 30 degrees and slightly angled out from centerline, hitting the ground/deck and bouncing back up under the wing as if to act as a "thrust cushion." I've often wondered if that was a feature the A-12 had to reduce the impact forces at landing and was why the noxzze(s) were classified.
 

flateric

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Sundog, to my sorrow, we don't have pics of official model exaust...but look, Habu2 site have at least four photos of full-size mock-up exaust area.
 

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flateric

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Sundog said:
Also, if anyone has the book, Billion Dollar Blunder, their is a pic of the model of the Northrop design for the ATA program. It looks like a smaller version of the B-2 (The planform is more like the original B-2 layout, with a smaller aspect ratio) and the wingtips would bend up vertically for greater stability when the gear was extended.
Here's Northrop ATA proposal from the great James P. Stevenson's 'The $5 Billion Misunderstanding: The Collapse of the Navy’s A-12 Stealth Bomber Program'.
 

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flateric

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Some rare A-12 production photos (not sure of this is real a/c or mock-up)
 

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Deino

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Regarding the other ATA contenders I only have these two pictures ... the first from the FLUG Revue (issue ??) saying it shows a Boeing/Rockwell design and another one without any source !

PS ... + a wonderful build Model in 1/48 scale ....

Deino
 

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hesham

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My dears,

first sorry, I have not scanner now,second I mean the
Grumman/Northrop team first proposal,and I don't know
if Lockheed joint them later or not,but if dear Pometablava
have a drawing to Grumman/Lockheed please send it,and
I will tell you if it is like my picture or not.
 

Matej

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I think pometablava meant this:

http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/stealth4.files/AFX1.jpg

There was not Grumman/Northrop consortium in AF/X program. I collected nearly all designs and they are here:

http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/stealth4.htm

Hesham, you can take a look and probably there is the picture that you are reffering to.
 
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