US Navy’s UCLASS / CBARS / MQ-XX / MQ-25 Stingray Program

[Scott Kenny]

It might be an option, but it's reliance on a runway would be a detractor for the U.S. Army. Now if Boeing can make it take off from a 500m farmers field and clear a 50 foot obstacle, that would be cool.

That would be tight, but I suspect that the high-lift devices necessary for landing on a carrier would be close to making that possible.

 

[Sferrin]

"tHeY ALLmosT rOllEd iT IntO thE gRouNd!"

 

[greedo]

IOC was pushed out to 2028? The USN is just something special. Considering how long it's been since UCLASS flew off the deck, they've done a wonderful job of neutering anything that could be a threat to manned aviation.

 

[Flyaway]

U.S. Navy’s MQ-25 Flies For The First Time

The U.S. Navy on April 25 conducted the much-anticipated first flight of its Boeing MQ-25 Stingray uncrewed refueling aircraft, a major milestone in the service’s pursuit of bringing autonomous aircraft to its carriers.

The MQ-25A took off from Boeing’s facility at MidAmerica Airport in Mascoutah, Illinois, and flew for about 2 hr., U.S. Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) said in an announcement. Navy and Boeing pilots controlled the aircraft from the Lockheed Martin Unmanned Carrier Aviation Mission Control System MD-5, with the aircraft executing maneuvers to test basic flight controls, performance of the engine and its handling characteristics, according to NAVAIR.

 

[Ozair]

IOC was pushed out to 2028? The USN is just something special. Considering how long it's been since UCLASS flew off the deck, they've done a wonderful job of neutering anything that could be a threat to manned aviation.

USNI is saying 2029 is the new IOC, essentially 5 years late from the original projected Aug 24 date.

The first unmanned tankers for the U.S. Navy won’t be ready to deploy on aircraft carriers until 2029, according to Navy budget documents. The Boeing MQ-25A Stingray, the unmanned carrier tanker developed to extend the range of the air wing, will reach initial operational capability three years later than the Navy planned, according to budget documents reviewed by USNI News.
The first MQ-25As were set to deploy this year aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) but a variety of delays from carrier availability to production manufacturing hang ups have pushed the initial operational test and evaluation and IOC to 2029, USNI News understands.

https://news.usni.org/2026/04/27/na...-while-production-aircraft-takes-first-flight

The hold up is likely that this delayed first flight has resulted in missing the test window on the Bush which remains the only carrier equipped with the UMCS. USN Carrier availability was always going to be an issue and with Iran and who knows what else might come along further complicating testing availability.

 

[Sferrin]

USNI is saying 2029 is the new IOC, essentially 5 years late from the original projected Aug 24 date.

Boeing delivers again.

 

[Hydroman]

Boeing delivers again.

It's amazing too, MQ-25 was completed and sitting in a Boeing-St Louis hangar in 2014, 12 years ago then brought into the UCLASS mix after the Boeing Phantom Ray lost to the NG X-47B for J-UCAS.

 

[NMaude]

12 years ago then brought into the UCLASS mix after the Boeing Phantom Ray lost to the NG X-47B for J-UCAS.

And the X-47B sadly went nowhere.

 

[donnage99]

Boeing delivers again.

hey now they have to ease us into the f-47 delays and cost overruns somehow.

 

[Forest Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2049551286673297783

View: https://x.com/BoeingDefense/status/2049551286673297783?s=20

 

[Sferrin]

hey now they have to ease us into the f-47 delays and cost overruns somehow.

You forgot performance shortfalls. (See Starliner.)

 

[Sferrin]

It's amazing too, MQ-25 was completed and sitting in a Boeing-St Louis hangar in 2014, 12 years ago then brought into the UCLASS mix after the Boeing Phantom Ray lost to the NG X-47B for J-UCAS.

From 2016

https://news.usni.org/2016/02/01/pe...erate-f-35-development-buy-more-super-hornets

 

[Ozair]

From 2016

https://news.usni.org/2016/02/01/pe...erate-f-35-development-buy-more-super-hornets

Great find. Given the context of how long it has taken to get the MQ-25 on the boat this is an amusing quote from the article,

“whatever F/A-XX looks like — it should be unmanned,”

 

[Sferrin]

Great find. Given the context of how long it has taken to get the MQ-25 on the boat this is an amusing quote from the article,

“whatever F/A-XX looks like — it should be unmanned,”

Several of those. Here's another:

"and accelerated purchases and development of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)."

10 years later how many CVNs have deployed with the F-35C? One? Lincoln and. . .?

edit: USS Carl Vinson, USS Abraham Lincoln, and USS George Washington actively deploying with the stealth fighters. The USS Theodore Roosevelt has also completed upgrades. So 33% of the fleet. 7 years after the F-35C entered service.

 

[Flyaway]

Boeing delivers again.

Bodes well for the F-47 doesn’t it!!!

 

[Forest Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2050903124697575431

View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/2050903124697575431?s=20

 

[Avimimus]

Apologies if this has been answered already (I did read over ten pages looking for an answer), but:

I'm seeing a lot of features that imply efforts at reduced observability (including inlet design etc.) on a bespoke airframe, but this seems to be paired with an old pylon mounted buddy-refueling pod that can't be that stealthy.

So I'm left wondering: What is going on here?

 

[Ozair]

Apologies if this has been answered already (I did read over ten pages looking for an answer), but:

I'm seeing a lot of features that imply efforts at reduced observability (including inlet design etc.) on a bespoke airframe, but this seems to be paired with an old pylon mounted buddy-refueling pod that can't be that stealthy.

So I'm left wondering: What is going on here?

Stealth refuelling isn't a mission but ISR is a planned future secondary role for which a semi stealth airframe might be advantageous,

 

[Hydroman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2050903124697575431

View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/2050903124697575431?s=20

Quite a gaming system setup.

 

[VTOLicious]

Apologies if this has been answered already (I did read over ten pages looking for an answer), but:

I'm seeing a lot of features that imply efforts at reduced observability (including inlet design etc.) on a bespoke airframe, but this seems to be paired with an old pylon mounted buddy-refueling pod that can't be that stealthy.

So I'm left wondering: What is going on here?

Boeing MQ-25 stealth features are remains of UCLASS requirements (Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike)... before it became CBARS (Carrier-Based Aerial-Refueling System).

 

[Training_Dummy]

So I'm left wondering: What is going on here?

you’re not the only one…

 

[DJK]

Boeing MQ-25 stealth features are remains of UCLASS requirements (Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike)... before it became CBARS (Carrier-Based Aerial-Refueling System).

But if used in other future roles without the refuelling pod there could still be stealth advantages.

 

[quellish]

But if used in other future roles without the refuelling pod there could still be stealth advantages.

Other than aspects of the OML it’s not clear what low observable features were retained.

 

[Forest Green]

U.S. Navy’s First Carrier Operated Unmanned Tanker Cleared for Production​

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...rated-unmanned-tanker-cleared-for-production/

Secretary of the Navy, Hung Cao, announced on Tuesday that the MQ-25A “Stingray” unmanned air-to-air tanker would be moving to serial production, passing the point in development designated as “Milestone C” which marks a transition out of research and development towards Low Rate Initial Production and then a full rate manufacturing cycle.

 

[Sferrin]

Any truth to this?

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DaDRaA6OGv9/

I just don't see it. They've never landed one on a carrier. Nimitz is about to retire so there zero chance it has any modifications to operate the thing. At best maybe they craned a mockup onto it but what would be the point?

 

[NCQ]

Any truth to this?

https://www.instagram.com/reels/DaDRaA6OGv9/

I just don't see it. They've never landed one on a carrier. Nimitz is about to retire so there zero chance it has any modifications to operate the thing. At best maybe they craned a mockup onto it but what would be the point?

Well, that instagram link is an official government account and those photos are from DVIDS (and DVIDS has other photos and videos of it) so there's defintely an MQ-25 on the Nimitz. It doesn't look to be the same MQ-25 prototype that was used in previous deck handling exercises (at least from the livery). However, there's nothing in DVIDS with the MQ-25 flying. Given that the Nimitz isn't on a combat deployment at the moment, and is mostly just shifting homeports, perhaps they decided to spend the free time it has to get some more experience with deck handling.

 

[donnage99]

Other than aspects of the OML it’s not clear what low observable features were retained.

Navy explicitly communicated with the competing design teams that adding any stealth would not score additional point at eval. I don't think Boeing is so charitable to add additional cost to themselves for any stealth treatments on a unit to unit basis.

 

[Ozair]

I just don't see it. They've never landed one on a carrier. Nimitz is about to retire so there zero chance it has any modifications to operate the thing. At best maybe they craned a mockup onto it but what would be the point?

The point is the International Fleet Review 250 happening in New York. Not sure if that is one of the EMD ground test aircraft or Boeing's test article but it most certainly hasn't flown and landed on the Nimitz. It would have been loaded on before the Nimitz left and will be part of the review for those boarding the vessel and PR shots like you uploaded.

 

[Sferrin]

The point is the International Fleet Review 250 happening in New York. Not sure if that is one of the EMD ground test aircraft or Boeing's test article but it most certainly hasn't flown and landed on the Nimitz. It would have been loaded on before the Nimitz left and will be part of the review for those boarding the vessel and PR shots like you uploaded.

Just puzzled why they didn't say a word about it beforehand. Or since.

 

[timmyjohn]

Boeing MQ-25 stealth features are remains of UCLASS requirements (Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance and Strike)... before it became CBARS (Carrier-Based Aerial-Refueling System).

Navy explicitly communicated with the competing design teams that adding any stealth would not score additional point at eval. I don't think Boeing is so charitable to add additional cost to themselves for any stealth treatments on a unit to unit basis.

Other than aspects of the OML it’s not clear what low observable features were retained.

A few retired Naval officers with Super Hornet backgrounds were hired in the prior decade by Boeing-St Louis for various business development roles. I've been told that a couple of years ago nearly all were let go.

RADM (ret.) Gaddis in particular was given the task of bringing in follow-on development contracts related to MQ-25, such as expanded mission variants. https://breakingdefense.com/2021/08...5-can-talk-to-pilots-when-the-carrier-cannot/

CBARS did not include any LO requirements in the Capability Development Document (CDD) or in the contracted Performance Based System Specification (PBSS). The MQ-25 configuration is clearly an artifact of pre-CBARS activities.

 

[Scott Kenny]

@stealthflanker what's the RCS of the MQ-25 looking like, anyways? Assume no use of RAM, even in the inlet, and for a second run RAM only in the inlet.

 

[Hydroman]

MQ-25 seems to have basic LO shaping and it seems Boeing took cues from Tacit Blue (top inlet, chined fuselage and shaping and v-tails). The aircraft also has to be aero-efficient for good range as well. Boeing saw advantages in the Tacit Blue design. I am also waiting for the Chinese MQ-25, no photos as of yet?

 

[Sferrin]

MQ-25 seems to have basic LO shaping and it seems Boeing took cues from Tacit Blue (top inlet, chined fuselage and shaping and v-tails). The aircraft also has to be aero-efficient for good range as well. Boeing saw advantages in the Tacit Blue design. I am also waiting for the Chinese MQ-25, no photos as of yet?

Give it time.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I am also waiting for the Chinese MQ-25, no photos as of yet?

I'm not sure there's going to be one. I'm halfway expecting the Chinese to go straight to their attack drone having buddy-fueling.

 

[tico]

MQ-25 seems to have basic LO shaping and it seems Boeing took cues from Tacit Blue (top inlet, chined fuselage and shaping and v-tails). The aircraft also has to be aero-efficient for good range as well. Boeing saw advantages in the Tacit Blue design. I am also waiting for the Chinese MQ-25, no photos as of yet?

There doesn't appear to be much need for it now, though it's possible we'll see the US advance a tanker version of the B-21 down the road.

 

[quellish]

MQ-25 seems to have basic LO shaping and it seems Boeing took cues from Tacit Blue (top inlet, chined fuselage and shaping and v-tails). The aircraft also has to be aero-efficient for good range as well. Boeing saw advantages in the Tacit Blue design. I am also waiting for the Chinese MQ-25, no photos as of yet?

Originally UCLASS was to be strike and ISR. Then it pivoted to primarily ISR. Then it wa replaced with CBARS, a tanker .

Boeings design for UCLASS resulted in a company funded demonstrator, which was half complete before one of the UCLASS pivoted caused Boeing to pause the work on the demonstrator.

The Boeing CBARS entry was based on the VLO UCLASS design and work on the “T1” demonstrator resumed. This design had VLO shaping and features. CBARS did not require LO, it remains to be seen what LO features were retained form the earlier VLO version other than the outer mold line. For example, was the inlet changed/simplified?

 

[tico]

I guess aircraft designs tied to the UCLASS program might also make a comeback for Navy EW missions.

 

[timmyjohn]

There doesn't appear to be much need for it now, though it's possible we'll see the US advance a tanker version of the B-21 down the road.

Or maybe refit/refurbish B-2s for a silver bullet tanker role, once B-21 inventory permits?

 

[JetBrain]

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[Hydroman]

Or maybe refit/refurbish B-2s for a silver bullet tanker role, once B-21 inventory permits?

B-2's are going to be bombing for a long time and too expensive to convert to tankers.