Unknown German propulsion system in 1944 using mercury injection

novum

novum

It takes all kinds to make a world.
Joined
24 March 2024
Messages
33
Reaction score
33
Sketches from German underground factories near Linz and Roslau

Hi there,

during my 20 year long research on secret Luftwaffe developments in 1944/45 I came across the following sketch of a turbine:

TURBINE_01.png

Interestingly in CIOS black list item no. 5 on the Coanda effect, a similar looking turbine is being described by Henri Coanda:

COANDA_01.png

Did some of the researchers in this forum ever came across this kind of turbine?

Kind regards,
Manuel
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Came across" where? In which document?

"sketches from German underground factories near Linz and Roslau" - does this apply to both drawings?

Without the most basic details of where the sketch is from, hard to comment. Smells like Wonderwaffen trolling.
 
Last edited:
I had never read anything about mercury turbines, but it is not a very abundant metal and they could only have made some prototypes. Mercury has a bad reputation in terms of credibility, it is always associated with medieval experiments by alchemists.
 
Pretty good for taking the temperature - but is it perhaps the Freddy variety, though?
 
Last edited:
Red Mercury. How Nineties. Not heard it mentioned for a long time. Probably on a shelf at the Ministry of Supply.

I always wondered if it was an MoS name for something energetic like flamethrower fuel rather than a descriptive name.

Ho hum.

Chris
 
CJGibson said:
Red Mercury. How Nineties. Not heard it mentioned for a long time. Probably on a shelf at the Ministry of Supply.

I always wondered if it was an MoS name for something energetic like flamethrower fuel rather than a descriptive name.

Ho hum.

Chris
Click to expand...
Hello Chris, a fairly good overview of the bogus mythical substance pseudohistory can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mercury.
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
"Came across" where? In which document?

"sketches from German underground factories near Linz and Roslau" - does this apply to both drawings?

Without the most basic details of where the sketch is from, hard to comment. Smells like Wonderwaffen trolling.
Click to expand...
That drawing is a sketch from Viktor Schauberger around 1944. There are some similarities which are interesting. With regard to the Roslau drawing, in the CIOS report the following is mentioned:

Coanda_Description.png
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:
Not a promising start.
Click to expand...
Hi Paul,

thats the wikipedia view. I tend to say, yes one definitely has to take into account the possibility that Schauberger was a pseudoscientist. However, if you look at for instance German war diaries of Wehrkreis XVIII, you can see that the Rüstungskommandos gave the invention of Schauberger a certain weight, considering even the Sonderstufe:

VS_01.png

Even the Counter Intelligence Corps were quite interested in Schauberger after the war:

VS_02.png

If there is something to Schaubergers inventions, I can not say. However, strangely he had deep insight into top secret projects of the Nazis during WWII, by certain statements he made in the thousands of letters he wrote.

Best,
Manuel
 
Scott Kenny said:
Why on earth would they be using mercury injection?
Click to expand...
I suppose, they tried to somehow implement the concept of mercury vapor turbine (which were used on some poweplants since 1930s) on aircraft. The scheme is very unclear, but I got an impression that mercury was supposed to be used not in open cycle, but as coolant/heat exchanger.
 
Dilandu said:
I suppose, they tried to somehow implement the concept of mercury vapor turbine (which were used on some poweplants since 1930s) on aircraft. The scheme is very unclear, but I got an impression that mercury was supposed to be used not in open cycle, but as coolant/heat exchanger.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Do you have some references?
 
novum said:
However, if you look at for instance German war diaries of Wehrkreis XVIII, you can see that the Rüstungskommandos gave the invention of Schauberger a certain weight, considering even the Sonderstufe:
Click to expand...
The Nazis were an amazing mix of "desperate" and "anti-science" and "charlatans," and that made them susceptible to pseudo scientific hucksters. Before the war the Nazis blew excessive sums on ridiculous nonsense about Atlantis and World Ice and Hollow Earth and related gibberish; during the war, especially when they started losing, they bought into all manned of loopy nonsense that could be sold as "wunderwaffe."

Even the CIA, nowhere near as anti-science or desperate as the Nazis, threw substantial sums at "remote viewing" and whatnot. The fact that such things were looked at does not substantiate that such things actually had a practical value. Just look at the trillions of dollars thrown down the toilet for programs that we *know* only make things worse.
 
novum said:
Thanks a lot for the reference. Btw. OrionBlamBlam, you know that the basic concept for project Orion was also invented by the Engel group in Pibrans, don't you?

Best,
Manuel
Click to expand...

Bullshit. It was invented by Ullam, Teller, Ted Taylor and Freeman Dyson (and Lew Allen) from 1955 onwards. Long after criminal stupid nazis were crushed in 1945.
 
Archibald said:
Bullshit. It was invented by Ullam, Teller, Ted Taylor and Freeman Dyson (and Lew Allen) from 1955 onwards. Long after criminal stupid nazis were crushed in 1945.
Click to expand...
Well, it did not take much brain effort by Ullam et. al to proceed from the DERA detonation rocket principle (1944) to the one used in project Orion. See my other post on "Top secret DERA rocket designed by the Engel group at VA Pibrans".
Just read a little into "Engineering the space age - a rocket scientist remembers" by V. Brulle, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF, Retired and see how often the word "German" is used in his book ;)
 
novum said:
Well, it did not take much brain effort by Ullam et. al to proceed from the DERA detonation rocket principle (1944) to the one used in project Orion. See my other post on "Top secret DERA rocket designed by the Engel group at VA Pibrans".
Just read a little into "Engineering the space age - a rocket scientist remembers" by V. Brulle, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF, Retired and see how often the word "German" is used in his book ;)
Click to expand...
Sigh. This basic concept existed in various forms since XIX century. Before Tsiolkovsky, the physics of rocket flight was poorly understood, and most inventors assumed that space craft would be moved by series of explosions (pulses) behind some kind of "force reflector", rather than a constant burning in nozzle.
 
Dilandu said:
Sigh. This basic concept existed in various forms since XIX century. Before Tsiolkovsky, the physics of rocket flight was poorly understood, and most inventors assumed that space craft would be moved by series of explosions (pulses) behind some kind of "force reflector", rather than a constant burning in nozzle.
Click to expand...
Right, you got me there. You are talking about that other German inventor, called Hermann Ganswindt. However, I think that the one designed at Pibrans, was a much more workable solution than the one designed by Ganswindt.
 
Dilandu said:
I suppose, they tried to somehow implement the concept of mercury vapor turbine (which were used on some poweplants since 1930s) on aircraft. The scheme is very unclear, but I got an impression that mercury was supposed to be used not in open cycle, but as coolant/heat exchanger.
Click to expand...
Ah, as a recuperator or regenerator. I could see that. Take some heat out of the exhaust before it hits the turbines, and put it into the air out of the compressor before the combustion chambers.
 
Several sources have claimed that Viktor Schauberger personally built flying saucers. Modern research has shown that this cannot be verified.

However, Viktor’s intention was to develop a totally new method of propulsion. In the 1940s he experimented with rotating waviform shape discs. These devices were designed for practical purposes such as heating or cooling houses (the “Klimator”) or for propulsion. In planes and submarines, his engines were designed to create a “biological vacuum” in front, which should suck the vehicle forward.

The first device was manufactured at Viktor’s own expense by the Kertl Company in Vienna in 1940 and was subsequently further developed.

The device was tested in a hangar. A small high speed electric motor was used to set the machine in motion. Despite the compact size of the device, about 60 cm in diameter, it generated such a powerful levitional force that when it was first switched on (without Viktor’s permission and in his absence) it sheared off the six ¼ in. diameter high tensile steel anchor bolts and shot upwards to smash against the roof of the hangar.

From this incident, the legend has grown that Viktor Schauberger successfully developed flying saucers, big enough to carry pilots. But as far as we know, Viktor only experimented with small discs, less than 1 Meter in diameter, as mentioned.
Click to expand...

FAQs - PKS

pks.or.at pks.or.at
 
Here's an excerpt from IMPLOSION by Viktor Schauberger

None of this occurs with flying discs which are propelled by diamagnetism, i.e., etheric forces. It goes without saying that Flying Saucers encounter no heat barrier since they generate a negative pressure and diamagnetism, Their metal or glass air frames are no more heated than the shell of an implosion engine. On the contrary, they cool to their specific zone of anomaly. It would be impossible to imagine more perfect air vehicles. They have no sound barrier, no heat barrier, and they require no costly propellant because they generate their own motive power, that is diamagnetism. THE UNIVERSAL SOURCE OF ENERGY An abundance of this energy, Diamagnetism, is available throughout the universe. Therefore, such a diamagnetic aircraft could travel around the earth not once, but two or three times at any given altitude without having to refuel. Actually, it could travel in outer space for years, or as long as the crew did not have to replenish its food supplies. The following observations may serve as proof that the Fly- ing Saucers are diamagnetically propelled. As already mentioned in our chapter on diamagnetism, copper is a diamagnetic metal. When the UFO's fly at a relatively low rate of speed, they are surrounded by a light greenish hue. The spectral line, of burning copper has been observed to fall within this specific green. Furthermore, air samples taken from the atmosphere in the regions where, beginning in 1947, the UFOs have been frequently observed, have shown high concentrations of copper particles in very fine dispersion. On the other hand, air samples taken before the appearance of the Flying Saucers, show a complete absence of copper. Of course, none of the observations made so far regarding the UFO's speed, performance, take-off characteristics, and various light effects can be brought in line with the familiar laws of physics. This, however, is no proof that unknown types of air vehicles can not exist. After all, the mechanism of implosion and the nature of diamagnetism are ignored in modern physics and remain to be investigated and formally clarified.
Click to expand...
As well as crackpot ideas about dimagnetism as a method of propulsion, he was also very interested in vortices in water. What makes this sketch a drawing of a jet engine in your mind, as opposed to to some kind of water vortex device? What is the context of the drawing?
 
Last edited:
Viktor Schauberger (30 June 1885 – 25 September 1958)
was an Austrian forest caretaker, naturalist, philosopher, inventor and pseudoscientist.
He made before 1933 several good inventions in hydraulics.
After 1933 he became focus of members of NSDAP,
He talked with Hitler personally for investments in his new technology - Hitler consider him a fraudster.
But other like Julius Streicher help him to get contracts with industry,
Like Messerschmitt, Siemens and Junkers were his apparatus failed mostly spectacular,
This let to confiscation of his work by GESTAPO on order of Wehrmacht and got almost executed !
Was not the fact he was penpal with Heinrich Himmler…
Himmler gave him job at KZ Mauthausen to work further on his inventions.
Like turn seawater into gasoline.
In 1945 the US army found him and protected him for Russians, who looking for everything on Nazi High tech.
But forbid any further research into his Repulsine engine.
Until his dead he work as Inventor in Austria focusing on pluming and hydraulic.
 
I don’t knows what Henri Coanda was told
But to put mercury in jet engine make no sense what so ever
It made things worse due to Mercury corrosion of Aluminium on the Aircraft…
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What is strange, is the fact that Coanda mentions that the mercury was used to act as a series of pistons and so to increase its efficiency .. what does that mean?
 
overscan (PaulMM) said:

FAQs - PKS

pks.or.at pks.or.at
Click to expand...
I think the basic idea of using vortex power to separate energy for later use is not far fetched. Look for instance at the Hilsch-Ranque pipe and the physical explanation of it nowerdays. Its not even in our day well understood. Thus the question if there was something to his machines is still a mystery. Unfortunately Schauberger was also very much involved in esotheric nonsense as were so many Nazis at that time of which I clearly separate myself.
 
novum said:
What is strange, is the fact that Coanda mentions that the mercury was used to act as a series of pistons and so to increase its efficiency .. what does that mean?
Click to expand...
If they're dumping mercury out the tailpipe, all I can think of is using the significant expansion of mercury as it heats up to increase compression between chunks of air.

Which is beyond stupid, even for blunderwaffe weapons. Mercury vapor, plus burning fuels. How much ethyl or methyl mercury would you create? Planning on poisoning your entire ground crew? And everyone you're flying over?
 
Scott Kenny said:
If they're dumping mercury out the tailpipe, all I can think of is using the significant expansion of mercury as it heats up to increase compression between chunks of air.

Which is beyond stupid, even for blunderwaffe weapons. Mercury vapor, plus burning fuels. How much ethyl or methyl mercury would you create? Planning on poisoning your entire ground crew? And everyone you're flying over?
Click to expand...
Yeah, but wouldn't that be to much into one direction for a piston?
 
novum said:
Yeah, but wouldn't that be to much into one direction for a piston?
Click to expand...
It's a jet engine, the air only flows one direction through it.

So any mercury getting injected through there also gets to only go one direction, even while it's expanding and probably slowing down the air flow into the combustion chambers.
 
Scott Kenny said:
If they're dumping mercury out the tailpipe, all I can think of is using the significant expansion of mercury as it heats up to increase compression between chunks of air.

Which is beyond stupid, even for blunderwaffe weapons. Mercury vapor, plus burning fuels. How much ethyl or methyl mercury would you create? Planning on poisoning your entire ground crew? And everyone you're flying over?
Click to expand...
Reminds me of the Project Pluto SLAM that, among its other "features", would have crop-dusted anything in its flight path with radiation... XD
 
ArmchairSamurai said:
Reminds me of the Project Pluto SLAM that, among its other "features", would have crop-dusted anything in its flight path with radiation... XD
Click to expand...
That was at least considered an advantage for that particular mission. Or at least an additional weapon to employ, since the SLAM was less a cruise missile than an unmanned bomber dropping some large number of nukes!
 
Scott Kenny said:
That was at least considered an advantage for that particular mission. Or at least an additional weapon to employ, since the SLAM was less a cruise missile than an unmanned bomber dropping some large number of nukes!
Click to expand...
What a time to be alive haha
 
Mercury has been used in switches, barometer clocks (Cox's timepiece)

I'd prefer it and all fissile material be on the Moon--and it's dust in our concrete.

Now, it can be converted into gold--which can be made liquid.

Might there be a radioactive environment where liquid mercury heats up to liquid gold without ever hitting a solid state and turning into "corium?"

Use of quicksilver as a working fluid doesn't have to be all madness.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom