Ukrainian Patriot SAM operational/technical discussions

[TomS]

Google lens has a semi-useful translate feature.

Row 1 is length
Row 2 is width
Row 3 is height
Row 4 is weight

The first column of numbers is for the missile, the second is for the canister.

 

[Flyaway]

Raytheon has announced it will deliver five more Patriot systems to Ukraine by the end of 2024.

Conflict In Ukraine Spurs New Demand For Patriot Systems (Updated)

Raytheon aims to increase production of Patriot to 12 systems annually in to try to meet demand, with Ukraine becoming a major customer.

www.thedrive.com

 

[NMaude]

Raytheon has announced it will deliver five more Patriot systems to Ukraine by the end of 2024.

Conflict In Ukraine Spurs New Demand For Patriot Systems (Updated)

Raytheon aims to increase production of Patriot to 12 systems annually in to try to meet demand, with Ukraine becoming a major customer.

www.thedrive.com

That will definitely be causing some serious heartburn in the Kremlin as the current two Patriot batteries in Ukraine have proved to be effective against Russian missiles including the now obviously overhyped AS-24 Killjoy ALBM.

 

[Forest Green]

5 more batteries?

 

[BBCRF]

Raytheon has announced it will deliver five more Patriot systems to Ukraine by the end of 2024.

Conflict In Ukraine Spurs New Demand For Patriot Systems (Updated)

Raytheon aims to increase production of Patriot to 12 systems annually in to try to meet demand, with Ukraine becoming a major customer.

www.thedrive.com

That will definitely be causing some serious heartburn in the Kremlin as the current two Patriot batteries in Ukraine have proved to be effective against Russian missiles including the now obviously overhyped AS-24 Killjoy ALBM.

probably you meant to write inefficiency

 

[NMaude]

That will definitely be causing some serious heartburn in the Kremlin as the current two Patriot batteries in Ukraine have proved to be effective against Russian missiles including the now obviously overhyped AS-24 Killjoy ALBM.

probably you meant to write inefficiency

No, I meant effective as in a number of supposedly impossible to intercept AS-24s have been shotdown before reaching their targets..

 

[BBCRF]

Это определенно вызовет серьезную изжогу в Кремле, поскольку две нынешние батареи «Пэтриот» в Украине доказали свою эффективность против российских ракет, в том числе явно разрекламированной БРПЛ AS-24 Killjoy.

наверное вы хотели написать неэффективность

Нет, я имел в виду эффективные, так как в ряде якобы неперехватываемых АС-24 были сбиты, не долетев до цели.

Нет никаких доказательств того, что он был сбит

 

[NMaude]

As I don't speak Russian I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Cordy]

That will definitely be causing some serious heartburn in the Kremlin as the current two Patriot batteries in Ukraine have proved to be effective against Russian missiles including the now obviously overhyped AS-24 Killjoy ALBM.

probably you meant to write inefficiency

No, I meant effective as in a number of supposedly impossible to intercept AS-24s have been shotdown before reaching their targets..

Would assume for the Russians emphasizes the priority to develop equivalent of HARM anti-radiation missile to take out the Patriot radars, a tweet surfaced a few days ago which appears to show a Russian Lancet UAV taking out the IRIS-T SLM Hensoldt TRML-4D radar, if true a major success for the Russians as the first IRIS-T SLM reported to have been very effective in taking out Russian cruise missiles.

 

[jeffb]

That will definitely be causing some serious heartburn in the Kremlin as the current two Patriot batteries in Ukraine have proved to be effective against Russian missiles including the now obviously overhyped AS-24 Killjoy ALBM.

probably you meant to write inefficiency

No, I meant effective as in a number of supposedly impossible to intercept AS-24s have been shotdown before reaching their targets..

*Cough* There isn't actually evidence of that. Or at least, there's as much evidence for that as there is evidence of AS-24 Killjoys (Kinzhals) destroying Patriot batteries.

 

[LightningFan1959]

As I don't speak Russian I have no idea what you are saying.

They’re saying “There is no evidence that it was shot down”

 

[sferrin]

That will definitely be causing some serious heartburn in the Kremlin as the current two Patriot batteries in Ukraine have proved to be effective against Russian missiles including the now obviously overhyped AS-24 Killjoy ALBM.

probably you meant to write inefficiency

No, I meant effective as in a number of supposedly impossible to intercept AS-24s have been shotdown before reaching their targets..

*Cough* There isn't actually evidence of that. Or at least, there's as much evidence for that as there is evidence of AS-24 Killjoys (Kinzhals) destroying Patriot batteries.

Yes, but no. There are photos of shot down Kinzhal missiles. Have yet to see any blown up Patriot batteries. Perhaps you could share?

 

[Forest Green]

I'm sure satellite pictures of the destroyed Patriot batteries would have surfaced by now if it had happened.

 

[sferrin]

I'm sure satellite pictures of the destroyed Patriot batteries would have surfaced by now if it had happened.

I was being facetious. Many pictures of Kinzhal fragments have been posted here.

 

[Forest Green]

I was being facetious. Many pictures of Kinzhal fragments have been posted here.

Indeed. My personnel take is that there is evidence of shot-down Kinzhals, there is none of destroyed Patriot batteries or launchers and attacks on Kyiv seem to have subsided, with other cities now in the firing line instead. There has to be a reason for that.

 

[jeffb]

I'm sure satellite pictures of the destroyed Patriot batteries would have surfaced by now if it had happened.

I was being facetious. Many pictures of Kinzhal fragments have been posted here.

Well, Kinzhal or Iskander fragments.

 

[sferrin]

I'm sure satellite pictures of the destroyed Patriot batteries would have surfaced by now if it had happened.

I was being facetious. Many pictures of Kinzhal fragments have been posted here.

Well, Kinzhal or Iskander fragments.

Most, if not all, sources indicate Kinzhal.

 

[lancer21]

Apart from the alleged pictures of the Kinzhal shown by Klitschko (which is not even clear if it was a Kinzhal at all), i haven't seen one other iota of evidence showing any of the other 6 or 9 or 169 Kinzhal claimed shot down by the Kiev regime.

As to the Patriot destruction or not, this could be easily proven one way or the other by satellite imagery, but since the western commercial satellite companies work overtime to support the Kiev regime, i haven't seen anything from the claimed location of the Patriots, except a very blurry image some time back where you can't really see much. But the smallest attack inside Russia, and you have pristine images in hours, or images from Iran or DPRK etc.

Not sure if there are any commercial chinese or russian satellite services that could have taken pictures of the site? This is a genuine question. I suspect RuMOD must have clear images of the site, whether they will be bothered show anything or not we'll see. Though as the attack happened at night, not sure if the Kiev regime and no doubt US "advisors" would have had time to clear the site by morning, i imagine the russians must have some kind of satellite to take IR or radar or whatever images at night?

As it is, this whole Patriot destruction hoo-ha now and the stubborn denial from the american posters (even the Pentagon admitted "damage", probably as a face saving exercise) remind me of the F-117s shoot down back in the 1999, it's the same "impossibru!, "it was pure luck!", "it was the french!" etc. etc., and the years long derision of the claim for the second one damaged, which turned out true after all. And i would bet money that something happened to the B-2 as well, probably damaged.

Obviously it's not the place to discuss the F-117/B-2 claims here, but just to show the propaganda and hype around those\, just like with the Patriot today.
Personally, i bet sooner or later we will find that indeed, part or all of that Patriot battery have been destroyed that night. And i think there were claims of additional ones hit/destroyed? Just like with the much hyped Leopards, the US technology is not invincible despite the constant propaganda.

 

[sferrin]

Apart from the alleged pictures of the Kinzhal shown by Klitschko (which is not even clear if it was a Kinzhal at all), i haven't seen one other iota of evidence showing any of the other 6 or 9 or 169 Kinzhal claimed shot down by the Kiev regime.

As to the Patriot destruction or not, this could be easily proven one way or the other by satellite imagery, but since the western commercial satellite companies work overtime to support the Kiev regime, i haven't seen anything from the claimed location of the Patriots, except a very blurry image some time back where you can't really see much. But the smallest attack inside Russia, and you have pristine images in hours, or images from Iran or DPRK etc.

Not sure if there are any commercial chinese or russian satellite services that could have taken pictures of the site? This is a genuine question. I suspect RuMOD must have clear images of the site, whether they will be bothered show anything or not we'll see. Though as the attack happened at night, not sure if the Kiev regime and no doubt US "advisors" would have had time to clear the site by morning, i imagine the russians must have some kind of satellite to take IR or radar or whatever images at night?

As it is, this whole Patriot destruction hoo-ha now and the stubborn denial from the american posters (even the Pentagon admitted "damage", probably as a face saving exercise) remind me of the F-117s shoot down back in the 1999, it's the same "impossibru!, "it was pure luck!", "it was the french!" etc. etc., and the years long derision of the claim for the second one damaged, which turned out true after all. And i would bet money that something happened to the B-2 as well, probably damaged.

Obviously it's not the place to discuss the F-117/B-2 claims here, but just to show the propaganda and hype around those\, just like with the Patriot today.
Personally, i bet sooner or later we will find that indeed, part or all of that Patriot battery have been destroyed that night. And i think there were claims of additional ones hit/destroyed? Just like with the much hyped Leopards, the US technology is not invincible despite the constant propaganda.

 

[lancer21]

As I don't speak Russian I have no idea what you are saying.

Obviously the man is using a translate service to post (see his previous posts in english), and on this occassion something was lost, probably not intentional. Perhaps you could use a translate service as well? It's not too hard. I do it all the time with russian and other languages i don't speak.

 

[Arjen]

I expect anybody who replies in a thread to check their reply. I consider this a simple courtesy to the forum's visitors. No checking - a gross discourtesy.

 

[lancer21]

View attachment 701574

What an insightful and well argumented reply from a supposed senior member of SPF.

 

[indicisivedivide]

Apart from the alleged pictures of the Kinzhal shown by Klitschko (which is not even clear if it was a Kinzhal at all), i haven't seen one other iota of evidence showing any of the other 6 or 9 or 169 Kinzhal claimed shot down by the Kiev regime.

As to the Patriot destruction or not, this could be easily proven one way or the other by satellite imagery, but since the western commercial satellite companies work overtime to support the Kiev regime, i haven't seen anything from the claimed location of the Patriots, except a very blurry image some time back where you can't really see much. But the smallest attack inside Russia, and you have pristine images in hours, or images from Iran or DPRK etc.

Not sure if there are any commercial chinese or russian satellite services that could have taken pictures of the site? This is a genuine question. I suspect RuMOD must have clear images of the site, whether they will be bothered show anything or not we'll see. Though as the attack happened at night, not sure if the Kiev regime and no doubt US "advisors" would have had time to clear the site by morning, i imagine the russians must have some kind of satellite to take IR or radar or whatever images at night?

As it is, this whole Patriot destruction hoo-ha now and the stubborn denial from the american posters (even the Pentagon admitted "damage", probably as a face saving exercise) remind me of the F-117s shoot down back in the 1999, it's the same "impossibru!, "it was pure luck!", "it was the french!" etc. etc., and the years long derision of the claim for the second one damaged, which turned out true after all. And i would bet money that something happened to the B-2 as well, probably damaged.

Obviously it's not the place to discuss the F-117/B-2 claims here, but just to show the propaganda and hype around those\, just like with the Patriot today.
Personally, i bet sooner or later we will find that indeed, part or all of that Patriot battery have been destroyed that night. And i think there were claims of additional ones hit/destroyed? Just like with the much hyped Leopards, the US technology is not invincible despite the constant propaganda.

Considering that Russia claims to send less than 6 missiles. Destroying a battery is out of question. A launcher may have been damaged but destroying a battery will definitely require more missile than they claim to send.

 

[indicisivedivide]

Apart from the alleged pictures of the Kinzhal shown by Klitschko (which is not even clear if it was a Kinzhal at all), i haven't seen one other iota of evidence showing any of the other 6 or 9 or 169 Kinzhal claimed shot down by the Kiev regime.

As to the Patriot destruction or not, this could be easily proven one way or the other by satellite imagery, but since the western commercial satellite companies work overtime to support the Kiev regime, i haven't seen anything from the claimed location of the Patriots, except a very blurry image some time back where you can't really see much. But the smallest attack inside Russia, and you have pristine images in hours, or images from Iran or DPRK etc.

Not sure if there are any commercial chinese or russian satellite services that could have taken pictures of the site? This is a genuine question. I suspect RuMOD must have clear images of the site, whether they will be bothered show anything or not we'll see. Though as the attack happened at night, not sure if the Kiev regime and no doubt US "advisors" would have had time to clear the site by morning, i imagine the russians must have some kind of satellite to take IR or radar or whatever images at night?

As it is, this whole Patriot destruction hoo-ha now and the stubborn denial from the american posters (even the Pentagon admitted "damage", probably as a face saving exercise) remind me of the F-117s shoot down back in the 1999, it's the same "impossibru!, "it was pure luck!", "it was the french!" etc. etc., and the years long derision of the claim for the second one damaged, which turned out true after all. And i would bet money that something happened to the B-2 as well, probably damaged.

Obviously it's not the place to discuss the F-117/B-2 claims here, but just to show the propaganda and hype around those\, just like with the Patriot today.
Personally, i bet sooner or later we will find that indeed, part or all of that Patriot battery have been destroyed that night. And i think there were claims of additional ones hit/destroyed? Just like with the much hyped Leopards, the US technology is not invincible despite the constant propaganda.

Russia first needs to have a high resolution satellite.

 

[Forest Green]

Apart from the alleged pictures of the Kinzhal shown by Klitschko (which is not even clear if it was a Kinzhal at all), i haven't seen one other iota of evidence showing any of the other 6 or 9 or 169 Kinzhal claimed shot down by the Kiev regime.

Well you should check out the Kinzhal thread. And yes, the thing with Klitschko was definitely a Kinzhal warhead, nothing else it could be. Kremlin's alternative suggestions failed miserably.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/system-9-a-7660-kinzhal-9-s-7760-missile-article-292-as-24-killjoy.40307/page-2#post-597105

https://twitter.com/x/status/1658348438247882752

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656289377129988096

What an insightful and well argumented reply from a supposed senior member of SPF.

His response is because it's already been done to death. And it's frankly trolling to even bring it up again and suggest that it never happened.

 

[sferrin]

View attachment 701574

What an insightful and well argumented reply from a supposed senior member of SPF.

I gave it all the analysis it warranted.

 

[Dreamfighter]

I expect anybody who replies in a thread to check their reply. I consider this a simple courtesy to the forum's visitors. No checking - a gross discourtesy.

For the past 15 years I just assumed I´m a member of an English language forum, but I can´t find confirmation about it (the language) in the forum-rules.... Aside from an occasional joke, don´t tell me we´re allowed to write/post on this forum contributions in any language we want?!

 

[paralay]

Well you should check out the Kinzhal thread. And yes, the thing with Klitschko was definitely a Kinzhal warhead, nothing else it could be. Kremlin's alternative suggestions failed miserably.

Where do you think this "penetrating warhead" is located in the missile?

 

[sferrin]

Well you should check out the Kinzhal thread. And yes, the thing with Klitschko was definitely a Kinzhal warhead, nothing else it could be. Kremlin's alternative suggestions failed miserably.

Where do you think this "penetrating warhead" is located in the missile?

Why does it matter?

 

[Forest Green]

Where do you think this "penetrating warhead" is located in the missile?

They probably fit it at the Kyiv bus stop with a hole in it as standard right?

 

[Firefinder]

Needs to be pointed out the the Kinzhal does have similar terminal proformance as the Iskander.

Like thanks to how both works and simple aerodynamics and complex interception calcs...

If the Patriot can shot down Iskanders, then the Kinzhal will suffer the same fate.

That is being stopped.

 

[NMaude]

Needs to be pointed out the the Kinzhal does have similar terminal proformance as the Iskander.

Like thanks to how both works and simple aerodynamics and complex interception calcs...

With both the SS-26 Stone and its' ALBM derivative the AS-24 Killjoy performing these manoeuvres they lose energy and hence speed making them easier to intercept.

 

[paralay]

The Dagger missel is a two-stage, first stage MiG-31K, with a range of 2000 km. Iskander - one stage and a range of 500 km. These misseles cannot have the same speed

 

[NMaude]

Not surprising as the SS-26 Stone is launched from the ground while the AS-24 Killjoy is launched from about 40,000Ft no doubt at supersonic speed.

 

[jeffb]

Needs to be pointed out the the Kinzhal does have similar terminal proformance as the Iskander.

Like thanks to how both works and simple aerodynamics and complex interception calcs...

With both the SS-26 Stone and its' ALBM derivative the AS-24 Killjoy performing these manoeuvres they lose energy and hence speed making them easier to intercept.

Why? Why does the Iskander have the same terminal performance as the Kinzhal?

A Kinzhal is traveling at above M10 (12250kph/3400ms) when it begins any terminal maneuvering, Iskander is moving at M6 (7350kph/2000ms). If the Kinzhal can carry the separating warhead that may have it's own motor, the warhead may be traveling in excess of the weapon's (Kinzhal's or Iskander's) cruise speed at impact.

 

[Forest Green]

Kiev clowns take you for idiots. They dismantled the Betab-500 bomb, punched it and put on a show

Aside from the empircal evidence that Russia's strikes on Kyiv and Odessa last night hit nothing, there is the matter of these pictures.

 

[Forest Green]

 

[sferrin]

The Dagger missel is a two-stage, first stage MiG-31K, with a range of 2000 km. Iskander - one stage and a range of 500 km. These misseles cannot have the same speed

At the end of their flight they certainly could. There's this thing called, "drag".

 

[paralay]

Aside from the empircal evidence that Russia's strikes on Kyiv and Odessa last night hit nothing, there is the matter of these pictures.

What do we see in these photos?
Obviously, this is a "penetrating warhead". What are such warheads used for? To defeat buried command posts. For example located at a depth of 120 meters underground. And now ask yourself the question: what kind of warhead will be fired at the SAM?

 

[sferrin]

Aside from the empircal evidence that Russia's strikes on Kyiv and Odessa last night hit nothing, there is the matter of these pictures.

What do we see in these photos?
Obviously, this is a "penetrating warhead". What are such warheads used for? To defeat buried command posts. For example located at a depth of 120 meters underground. And now ask yourself the question: what kind of warhead will be fired at the SAM?

Who said it was fired at the Patriot site? (And given the desperation coming out of Russia I wouldn't be surprised to see a washing machine mounted on the front of Kinzhal. )