UAP explanation: US anti gravity secret project?

edwest4 said:
Once a world-changing discovery is published, scientists in countries who can exploit it will exploit it. The discovery of atomic fission propelled the development of atomic bombs. The discovery of practical antigravity could take spaceships that are weightless to orbit and on to other planets. It could also conceivably be used as a weapon. When manned powered flight became possible, machine-guns were added.
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One small problem. Such discovery is made by SCIENTISTS, not by poorly-educated inventors, tinkering in garages with jury-rigged equipment. Wright brothers were able to make practical plane because they done extensive research firs (with wind tubes, gliders, ect.), and started to build plane only when the were sure that their theory is sound. Atomic energy required massive facilities and thousands of men to tackle. Fusion energy required international-scale funding for decades, and only recently some progress toward practical solution was observed.

To put it simpl, it's utterly impossible for some "unrecognized genius" to accidentally discover something as fundamental as antigravity. Modern science simply do NOT have such big holes, that amateur working in garage could make such a monumental discovery. If there WAS such hole, its presence would be obvious by massive indirect signs, like unexplained inaccuracies in precise equipment, disrepancy between practical and theoretical results in gravity research, large-scale phenomenons in astronomy, particle physics, ect.
 
archipeppe said:
Exactly, such a scenario could be valid up to the end of XIX Century.
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Yep. By now the accumulated sum of scientific knowledge is just too cocherent for something as fundamental as direct electromagnetic-to-gravity transformation to be "easy to discover, just nobody noticed it".
 
Dilandu said:
To put it simply:

* There is no known direct connection between gravity and electromagnetic. You can't "make gravity out of electric power" directly; only through energy-to-mass conversion (and while the latter is perfectly possible, it is not efficient)

* The gravity is extremely weak force. In fact, it's the weakest of ALL known fundamental interactions. It's 10e38 times weaker than electromagnetic forces. To put it simply - the photon drive (capable at best 1 N per 300 MWt of power) is 38 orders of magnitude better than gravity drive of the same power.
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Perhaps there is some relation between the weakness of this force and the distance to which it acts, which seem to be in an inverse relationship.
archipeppe said:
Oh no! The Hunt for Zero Point all over again.....
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Hi;)
 

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Dilandu said:
There is no way it could work. I repeat; gravity is weak force. Its 38 orders of magnitude weaker than electromagnetism. And it's literally the basic of all physics around us.


Well, the most probable explanation is that it was experimental balloon, launched from submerged submarine in some kind of secret test.
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German U-Boat Radar Decoys - Aphrodite, Thetis

Radar decoys were used to fool allied radar into thinking a U-boat was present. Two decoys were deployed, the Aphrodite and Thetis.
www.uboataces.com
 
TsrJoe said:

Ning Li (physicist) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Gravitational effects on the magnetic attenuation of superconductors

It is found that when gravitational effects are taken into account, the two historical independent traditional hallmarks of ideal superconductors---perfect conductivity (\ensuremath{\sigma}) and perfect diamagnetism characterized by zero permeability (\ensuremath{\mu})---are actually related to...
journals.aps.org journals.aps.org

www.scribd.com

ANTI-GRAVITY: POWER OF THE FUTURE by G. Harry Stine. Chief, Navy Range Operations, White Sands Proving Grounds | PDF

From MECHANIX ILLUSTRATED, June 1957
www.scribd.com www.scribd.com

For further research I would ignore pulp non academic magazine articles (Fortean Times, UFO Magazine, Wiki, etc) and maybe suggest contacting the gravitational research department at Glasgow University as to current researches (or indeed any of the many universities currently studying this area of research) spoiler alert, so far none that I am aware of have publicly managed to replicate Podkletnov's published results !
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en.wikipedia.org

G. Harry Stine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
edwest4 said:
When word of the possibility of the large release of atomic energy by nuclear fission was published in the open literature, various countries began investigating this discovery. France made some progress but the German invasion ended that. Antigravity applied to aircraft would be one of a number of possible applications. If any vehicle could contain a field effect antigravity generator, assuming it could be built, then it could be weightless or almost weightless. Once switched off, it would return to its normal weight. If the assumed field effect could be projected in a beam, an object in range could be rendered weightless.
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This reminds me of Asimov's story about the billiard ball... Can you imagine that the experiment works and the evidence shoot out into space through the roof of the lab?
 
edwest4 said:
Once a world-changing discovery is published, scientists in countries who can exploit it will exploit it. The discovery of atomic fission propelled the development of atomic bombs. The discovery of practical antigravity could take spaceships that are weightless to orbit and on to other planets. It could also conceivably be used as a weapon. When manned powered flight became possible, machine-guns were added.
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There is a lot of difference between knowing that something can be done and having the means and motivation to do it, new technologies are very expensive in their early stages and development is even more so.
 
Archibald said:
Reminds me of a silly joke... one man takes a 5 kg lead ballast and attach it to his left testicle with a 80 cm cord. Then he does the same on his right testicle, except the cord is 60 cm and the lead ballast is 7 kg.

Which cord will break first ?

The vocal cord(s) !

(I'll get my coat).
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Reality surpasses fantasy, in some rural areas of my country there are contests where people do that... with a ham. It's a simple matter of mechanical strength.:)
 
Justo Miranda said:
That border is becoming quite permeable, I respect your opinion, but in these issues where we all sail blindly, having an open mind to strange ideas can be useful.
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In this case, for me, lending much credence to it crosses the line between maintaining an open mind and gullibility.
 
Justo Miranda said:
Reality surpasses fantasy, in some rural areas of my country there are contests where people do that... with a ham. It's a simple matter of mechanical strength.:)
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WTF did I just red ?

are-you-serious-excuse-me.gif
 
Arjen said:
In this case, for me, lending much credence to it crosses the line between maintaining an open mind and gullibility.
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Two cavemen observe a mammoth struck by lightning: one of them invokes the power of the gods and the other realizes that roast meat chews better.:)
 
Dilandu said:
It's called "inverse square law", you know...
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What I was trying to express is that it is strange that such a weak force should have an effect on objects at enormous distances. Perhaps that anomaly is the key to understanding gravity. It was recently discovered that elephants communicate over long distances using very low-frequency sounds that humans cannot detect without using instruments. Can this analogy explain why our instruments are not yet sophisticated enough to detect the full spectrum of gravitational waves and their effects on matter?
 
Justo Miranda said:
What I was trying to express is that it is strange that such a weak force should have an effect on objects at enormous distances. Perhaps that anomaly is the key to understanding gravity. It was recently discovered that elephants communicate over long distances using very low-frequency sounds that humans cannot detect without using instruments. Can this analogy explain why our instruments are not yet sophisticated enough to detect the full spectrum of gravitational waves and their effects on matter?
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Gravity is best described as an angular momentum force. The largest body in the solar system, the Sun, keeps planets in their orbits by gravitational attraction.
 
Dilandu said:
To put it simpl, it's utterly impossible for some "unrecognized genius" to accidentally discover something as fundamental as antigravity.
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Indeed. It *used* to be the case that lone tinkerers discovered fundamental truths about how the universe worked. But the rules that control the universe are somewhat limited in number, and all the easy ones have been found. People had to dig deeper and deeper.

It's somewhat akin to fossil fuels. The industrial revolution was made possible because coal and oil were available on the surface or so close to it that humans could hack them out of the ground with pickaxes. But if we had to start over today, coal and oil would have been as difficult for early 19th century tech to acquire as low Earth orbit.

The Amazing Discoveries produced by the like of Galileo and Newton are now the sort of things we see demonstrated by lazy kids at science fairs. We're not seeing *advanced* kids demonstrating gravity waves or Higgs bosons.
 
edwest4 said:
Gravity is best described as an angular momentum force. The largest body in the solar system, the Sun, keeps planets in their orbits by gravitational attraction.
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There must be something else that escapes the comprehension of our scientists.
 
Orionblamblam said:
Indeed. It *used* to be the case that lone tinkerers discovered fundamental truths about how the universe worked. But the rules that control the universe are somewhat limited in number, and all the easy ones have been found. People had to dig deeper and deeper.

It's somewhat akin to fossil fuels. The industrial revolution was made possible because coal and oil were available on the surface or so close to it that humans could hack them out of the ground with pickaxes. But if we had to start over today, coal and oil would have been as difficult for early 19th century tech to acquire as low Earth orbit.

The Amazing Discoveries produced by the like of Galileo and Newton are now the sort of things we see demonstrated by lazy kids at science fairs. We're not seeing *advanced* kids demonstrating gravity waves or Higgs bosons.
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In the nineteenth century, people died from a wound on their fingers, not knowing that there was a fungus called penicillium that would have saved their lives. In the 20th century, Rommel's tanks ran out of gasoline while rolling over a lake of oil. In the 21st century, environmentalists anger farmers by trying to ban the use of fertilizers, while scientists are unable to replicate something as common as photosynthesis. The solution is always close, the hard part is to see it.
 
Justo Miranda said:
What I was trying to express is that it is strange that such a weak force should have an effect on objects at enormous distances. Perhaps that anomaly is the key to understanding gravity. It was recently discovered that elephants communicate over long distances using very low-frequency sounds that humans cannot detect without using instruments. Can this analogy explain why our instruments are not yet sophisticated enough to detect the full spectrum of gravitational waves and their effects on matter?
Click to expand...
The gravity isn't exactly a "force". It's a bend of time & space that mass produced around it. That's why it can't be blocked or screened (like electromagnetic forces could).

The only reason why such a weak INTERACTION is able to affect objects, is because astronomical objects are utterly humongously huge.
 
Justo Miranda said:
That's true, but gravity also affects hydrogen atoms, forming new stars when a cloud of interstellar gas is hit by gravitational waves generated by a supernova.
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May I ask, why are you quoting my message, answer with my message copy, and then quote my text in your message? I'm sincerely puzzled.
 
Justo Miranda said:
That's true, but gravity also affects hydrogen atoms, forming new stars when a cloud of interstellar gas is hit by gravitational waves generated by a supernova.
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Look at atoms. What keeps protons and electrons apart? Scientists have identified what they call a "weak force" and a "strong force."
 
Justo Miranda said:

The Billiard Ball - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Just read this short story. Thank you for pointing me to it!
For me, this is not a tale about science, but rather about dark passions of protagonists and their preciously hidden hate to each other. Even the story' teller doesn't free of of such feeling.
On the matters, closer to topic' theme, I was impressed, how Asimov managed to connect gravitation with the idea of unlimited power source - contrary to mush evident and common idea of attraction-repulsion between bodies.
 
Silencer1 said:
Just read this short story. Thank you for pointing me to it!
For me, this is not a tale about science, but rather about dark passions of protagonists and their preciously hidden hate to each other. Even the story' teller doesn't free of of such feeling.
On the matters, closer to topic' theme, I was impressed, how Asimov managed to connect gravitation with the idea of unlimited power source - contrary to mush evident and common idea of attraction-repulsion between bodies.
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In my opinion, which I have not been able to express here due to strange interference in my messages, Asimov's story expresses my doubts about what we may find when our scientists begin to understand gravity.
 
Regarding gravity and its potential manipulation, there's a possible joker in the pack.
'Teleparallel Gravity'.
IIRC, Einstein toyed with it, but lacked the math to do it justice. Recently, things have moved on. There are now several formulations, sadly incomplete and contradictory, with no winner and no apparent way to falsify them or craft functional hardware...

Also, the math is best described as 'WTFFFF ???'

As I understand it, based on a 'New Scientist' article several years ago, 'Teleparallel Gravity' says our familiar Electromagnetism twists space/time one way, gravity another. They are close kin.

But, how to craft the equivalent of Faraday's coils, then get from those to equivalent of Hertz' tuned circuits is currently unknown.

Upside, breakthrough may not require CERN or DARPA. Your archetypal 'garage' inventor could do it. Perhaps.
Down-side, may take a serendipitous decade, a century or, like practical application of the aeolipile AKA 'Hero Turbine', millennia...
 
Dilandu said:
Yes, with a practical range of a few meters at best. Tesla simply did not understood electrodynamic (his views on the matter were hopelessly XIX century), and - ever optimisitc - persuaded himself that he could magically make his coil to work on any distances.
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Point of Order!

Nik Tesla was demonstrating wireless transmission of electrical power across several miles. Enough power to light up an old school Edison light bulb, as long as it was touching the ground.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Nik Tesla was demonstrating wireless transmission of electrical power across several miles. Enough power to light up an old school Edison light bulb, as long as it was touching the ground.
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And while that's neato and all, I can't help but wonder about unforeseen consequences of sending that much raw power out into the environment. I can imagine plumbers having to wear full body copper chain mail to keep from being electrocuted, weird lightning effects during storms, even lighting out of a clear blue sky.
 
Orionblamblam said:
And while that's neato and all, I can't help but wonder about unforeseen consequences of sending that much raw power out into the environment. I can imagine plumbers having to wear full body copper chain mail to keep from being electrocuted, weird lightning effects during storms, even lighting out of a clear blue sky.
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Oh puleeeeez. Have you read a single book about what Tesla did?
 
Scott Kenny said:
Nik Tesla was demonstrating wireless transmission of electrical power across several miles. Enough power to light up an old school Edison light bulb, as long as it was touching the ground.
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Yeah, spending enough energy to run an ocean liner (exaggeration, but still). Recall that I said "practical range"? Well, building a highly inefficient radio transmitter which pump extravagant amount of power into environment just to light a light bulb is NOT practical.
 
edwest4 said:
Oh puleeeeez. Have you read a single book about what Tesla did?
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He did a lot; he claimed a lot more than he did, and he bragged about A LOT more than he claimed. He was a genius, but unfortunately close to "mad" type; he was absolutely sure that he is always right, and if he didn't understood something, then it must be false, and all scientists who claim it to be true (like Maxvell electrodynamics) must be lying because of some global conspiracy against him.

P.S. Found a good quote to describe Tesla's life:

* Anything Nikola Tesla did in the first third of his career was genius.
* Anything he did in the middle third is exaggerated and lied about and is completely untrustworthy.
* Anything he did in the last third was a descent into madness and must be ignored.

(c)
 
The Truth Is The Military Has Been Researching “Anti-Gravity” For Nearly 70 Years

"While the discussion continues over whether any such technologies are feasible, the truth is that the theoretical concepts behind them are anything but new. In fact, the U.S. military and the federal government have been formally researching these radical concepts since the 1950s, and according to our own research, those efforts have continued on to this very day."

See:

www.twz.com

The Truth Is The Military Has Been Researching "Anti-Gravity" For Nearly 70 Years

It sounds like science fiction, but the military began working to overcome and harness gravity in the 1950s. From what we can tell, it never stopped.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 

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