Typhoon/Akula SSBN design

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Hobbes

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I just watched a video on the Typhoon-class subs:


At 5:12, this shows a photo of the sub under construction:
Typhoon.jpg

This shows the two main pressure hulls, and the holes for the missile tubes between them. I'd always assumed the missile tubes would be inside the pressure hulls, and I had a mental image of the two pressure hulls filling the entire space in the hull.
Does that mean the silos would fill with water when the sub was submerged, or was each silo a pressure vessel?
 
Hobbes said:
I just watched a video on the Typhoon-class subs:


At 5:12, this shows a photo of the sub under construction:
View attachment 705637

This shows the two main pressure hulls, and the holes for the missile tubes between them. I'd always assumed the missile tubes would be inside the pressure hulls, and I had a mental image of the two pressure hulls filling the entire space in the hull.
Does that mean the silos would fill with water when the sub was submerged, or was each silo a pressure vessel?
Click to expand...
Each missile tube was a pressure vessel. You certainly don't want water in the tube while the missile is still in there, a recipe for corrosion.

This Is also true of more conventional SSBNs, just that the "internal" tubes have to resist pressure the other direction when the tube fills with water at sea pressure after the missile is launched.
 
Yeah, the Delta class(es) are some of the least attractive subs out there...
 
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The Delta I with its double kink in the casing looked pretty cool though.
 
Good lesson in why you shouldnt change the length of your missiles after you start building your subs.
 
publiusr said:
That’s why I laughed at the recent Doctor Who episode “Cold War” that had a sub firing too deep.

The model wasn’t bad
https://flic.kr/p/hMNP1E
View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/paulodykes/11020083906


The Typhoon at least didn’t look like Quasimodo. :)
Click to expand...
How deep? They could (apparently) be fired from some depth. The missile had a built in cavitator to create a bubble for it as it ascended through the water:


"At the moment of launch, the ARSS powder gas generator was turned on, creating a gas cavity, with the help of which the reduction of gas-dynamic loads on the rocket in the underwater section was ensured. The first stage engine was switched on at the moment the rocket exited the mine. After leaving the water with the engine of the first stage running, the ARSS was removed from the rocket with the help of the appropriate engines and taken aside. With the help of ARSS, when the solid propellant rocket engine of the first stage was not launched, the emergency missile was withdrawn away from the submarine."

Apparently it could be launched through polar ice as well:

"2. Solid propellant rocket motor for leading away from the trajectory of the head fairing - PSU-S65. Type - multi-block multi-sectional all-round combustion.
Mass of solid propellant rocket motor - 41 kg
Operating time - less than 0.6 sec

3. Solid propellant rocket motor of ice breaking system, solid propellant rocket launcher of missile turn system. Engines of the multi-shot "tandem" type of all-round combustion with ballistic powder. For example, 3L-91.30.19 and 3L-91.1.10.29.
Fuel type - ballistic solid propellant
Mass of the engine of the ice breaking system - 29 kg (estimated)"

Д-19 / Р-39 / 3М-65 - SS-N-20 STURGEON | MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.)

Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум
militaryrussia.ru militaryrussia.ru
 
Pretty much all submarine launched ballistic missiles after the second generation have a built in cavitator and launch from a depth of up to 50m under the keel, first generation they had to manually set them up on deck!
 
WatcherZero said:
Pretty much all submarine launched ballistic missiles after the second generation have a built in cavitator and launch from a depth of up to 50m under the keel, first generation they had to manually set them up on deck!
Click to expand...

USN apparently started at Generation 2 then.
 
TomS said:
My point was that no US SLBM has been intended or required to be set up on deck.
Click to expand...
While true, the Regulus missiles did require deck setup.

Which did not go over well with WW2 veteran submarine captains used to air attacks and being submerged in 60 seconds. So I'm assuming it was the WW2 veterans (like Rickover) who insisted on submerged launch.

And Regulus were the immediate predecessor for strategic deterrence at sea.
 
TomS said:
My point was that no US SLBM has been intended or required to be set up on deck.
Click to expand...

US first naval nuclear deterrent the SSM-N-8 Regulus wasnt ballistic as it was derived from the V1 rather than the V2 but did require to be set up on deck as did its planned successor the SSM-N-9 Regulus II.
Gato class USS Tunny and Balao class USS Barbero were modified to carry them while USS Grayback and USS Growler of the Grayback class were the US first purpose built nuclear missile subs, they were followed by the USS Halibut, the first nuclear powered nuclear weapon carrying US sub.

They were the US first generation and were followed by a 2nd generation of Polaris submarines which fired at a depth of 15m and were gradually improved to the point they could fire at 40m.

There was also the torpedo launched UUM-44 sub-surface to sub-surface nuclear missile preceding Polaris, as it had no method to reach the surface when fired other than its single rocket propulsion stage its range was inversely proportional to the depth it had been launched from.
 
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Scott Kenny said:
So I'm assuming it was the WW2 veterans (like Rickover)
Click to expand...

Two interesting factoids about Rickover:

a) he was out of subs by 1933 and spent WW2 mostly shoreside

b) he was actually cut out of development of the first SSBN classes (and definitely out of Polaris itself).

But yes, it's likely that WW2 and Regulus were both influences on Polaris. There were preliminary designs of surface-launched SLBMs but they were never very well liked.

WatcherZero said:
US first naval nuclear deterrent the SSM-N-8 Regulus wasnt ballistic
Click to expand...

Yes, I am well aware of the history of Regulus. I was responding to your comments about sub-launched ballistic missiles NOT sub-launched strategic missiles in general. Regurgitating a potted history of Regulus doesn't change that.
 
TomS said:
Two interesting factoids about Rickover:

a) he was out of subs by 1933 and spent WW2 mostly shoreside

b) he was actually cut out of development of the first SSBN classes (and definitely out of Polaris itself).

But yes, it's likely that WW2 and Regulus were both influences on Polaris. There were preliminary designs of surface-launched SLBMs but they were never very well liked.
Click to expand...
Did not know that, though with the early SSBNs basically being various SSN classes cut in half and fitted with a missile compartment, Rickover's influence was still felt (as the head of the AEC, I believe Rickover would have been briefed in on the warheads, but not the missile).

Probably should have used Beach and Lockwood as examples instead.
 
Rickover also interviewed every single officer that would serve on a nuclear submarine until his retirement, having final approval as well as his team doing pre-Rickover screening interviews, he certainly shaped the service in his image.
 
WatcherZero said:
Rickover also interviewed every single officer that would serve on a nuclear submarine until his retirement, having final approval as well as his team doing pre-Rickover screening interviews, he certainly shaped the service in his image.
Click to expand...
That's specifically the Prospective Nuclear Engineering Officer interview, which takes place after an officer has been to their first command and gets their Dolphins. It's not as soon as they finish Nuclear Power school or Prototype, they'll spend a couple years at sea learning how things really work before having to stand in front of The Man.

He also failed Jimmy Carter (yes, the future President) his first time up. What was Carter's failure? He seasoned his food before tasting it, making an assumption about the taste of the food without confirming it first. Yes, really.

Every Director of Naval Reactors since then has continued the personal interview process, including a not-particularly-well-known point of being "the Junior Officer who has to tell The Admiral that The Admiral is wrong about something." Failing to do so is grounds for failing the interview.
 
He interviewed 14,000 college students fresh from college before they entered the Nuclear Power School. Not sure how many existing navy personnel with Dolphins he interviewed but reported it was 1,000 in the first year alone.
 
What all that has to do with Typhoon class?
 
Jane's Intelligence Review had more success in 1991 when they spotted a Typhoon in dry dock and actually figured out the stern arrangements. It was bye-bye to the beaver tail that had been so common in previous Western interpretations of the design.
 

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