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Type 31 GPFF

Ron5

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Definitely not. The article seems quite clear that the procurement is proceeding, with MoD taking over a larger share of the cost (in the form of increased Government Furnished Equipment) and risk. The only thing that is dead here is the idea that the ships could be built with useful capabilities for £250m.

I believe I am correct in saying although the MoD has said they will allow a greater amount of GFM, its cost still has to be entirely met by the 250m average for 5 ships including R&D. In other words, the budget for the ships has not increased.

Aplogies, I am mistaken. A quick search of Hansard provided this MoD quote: "... I have been checking throughout the price we have, which is £250 million per ship. We made some initial adjustments to make it tie in with the way we have procured other warships in the past, so we have taken costs such as Government-furnished equipment out of that £250 million"
 

Hood

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The preferred bidder for the Type 31e has been announced this week, Babcock with the Arrowhead 140 design.
5 ships are to be built, commencing later this year and the first completing in 2023.

The industrial side of things is less certain, Harland & Wolff and Ferguson were part of the initial bid but of course are now in financial difficulties and the BBC report seems to indicate the MoD is happy to leave Babcock to sort its sub-contracting arrangements.

https://www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ ... s-49670332

https://www.babcockinternational.com/ne ... programme/
 

Hood

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I'm still not convinced of the concept, but I grudgingly admit it looks more like a proper warship than some of the earlier warmed up River-class proposals.
Still feels rather weak and tenacious, but I guess if your not expecting to come under serious attack then its fine and for 90% of the ship's life I'm sure they will be adequate for the job in hand. I'm hoping the USV component will be more cutting-edge and give this some real teeth.
 

TomS

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I see it has a CODAD. Is that better than a Doodad? And I'm looking forward to seeing how the connect one propeller to two shafts.

On a more serious note, I assume they got a package deal on the guns from BAE. Both 57mm and 40mm seems a bit redundant.

Do we know if there is at least a weight allowance for some deck-launched SSMs later?

General characteristics:

Type 31 is a general-purpose frigate with a displacement of 5700 tonnes and a length of 138.7 m (455 ft). The ship is equipped with 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 20V 8000 M71 (8.2-MW) diesel engines, 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 16V 2000 M41B (900kW) generators, a MAN Alpha VBS Mk 5 CP propeller, two shafts and a CODAD. It can reach the maximum speed of 28 knots and has an endurance of 9,000 nautical miles.

The armament of the ship comprises VLS Sea Ceptor anti-air missiles, 1x57 mm Mk 110 main gun and 2x40mm Mk 4 secondary guns. Sensors and processing systems onboard are the TACTICOS combat management system, Thales NS110 3D radar, SharpEye navigation radar, 2 Mirador Mk2 EOS and the Vigile-D ESM.

The frigate can accommodate an 80-100 crew, 1 × Wildcat or 1 × Merlin, 6 TEUs and 4 boat bays for RHIBs and USVs/UUVs. The ship is also fitted with a helicopter hangar and a flight deck.
 

Ron5

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I see it has a CODAD. Is that better than a Doodad? And I'm looking forward to seeing how the connect one propeller to two shafts.

On a more serious note, I assume they got a package deal on the guns from BAE. Both 57mm and 40mm seems a bit redundant.

Do we know if there is at least a weight allowance for some deck-launched SSMs later?

General characteristics:

Type 31 is a general-purpose frigate with a displacement of 5700 tonnes and a length of 138.7 m (455 ft). The ship is equipped with 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 20V 8000 M71 (8.2-MW) diesel engines, 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 16V 2000 M41B (900kW) generators, a MAN Alpha VBS Mk 5 CP propeller, two shafts and a CODAD. It can reach the maximum speed of 28 knots and has an endurance of 9,000 nautical miles.

The armament of the ship comprises VLS Sea Ceptor anti-air missiles, 1x57 mm Mk 110 main gun and 2x40mm Mk 4 secondary guns. Sensors and processing systems onboard are the TACTICOS combat management system, Thales NS110 3D radar, SharpEye navigation radar, 2 Mirador Mk2 EOS and the Vigile-D ESM.

The frigate can accommodate an 80-100 crew, 1 × Wildcat or 1 × Merlin, 6 TEUs and 4 boat bays for RHIBs and USVs/UUVs. The ship is also fitted with a helicopter hangar and a flight deck.

CODAD is an accepted term and you've never written a typo ? The writer of that site is not a natural English speaker yet a very well respected naval writer. Imagine that.

The guns are design for, and perform different tasks as do the Mk8 4.5" and the DS30 30mm guns on the Type 23 frigate that the Type 31 (in part) replaces.

Yes, space and weight allow for later fitting of SSM's if you really are interested, although I suspect you are just being more of a SA.
 
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TomS

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I see it has a CODAD. Is that better than a Doodad? And I'm looking forward to seeing how the connect one propeller to two shafts.

On a more serious note, I assume they got a package deal on the guns from BAE. Both 57mm and 40mm seems a bit redundant.

Do we know if there is at least a weight allowance for some deck-launched SSMs later?

General characteristics:

Type 31 is a general-purpose frigate with a displacement of 5700 tonnes and a length of 138.7 m (455 ft). The ship is equipped with 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 20V 8000 M71 (8.2-MW) diesel engines, 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 16V 2000 M41B (900kW) generators, a MAN Alpha VBS Mk 5 CP propeller, two shafts and a CODAD. It can reach the maximum speed of 28 knots and has an endurance of 9,000 nautical miles.

The armament of the ship comprises VLS Sea Ceptor anti-air missiles, 1x57 mm Mk 110 main gun and 2x40mm Mk 4 secondary guns. Sensors and processing systems onboard are the TACTICOS combat management system, Thales NS110 3D radar, SharpEye navigation radar, 2 Mirador Mk2 EOS and the Vigile-D ESM.

The frigate can accommodate an 80-100 crew, 1 × Wildcat or 1 × Merlin, 6 TEUs and 4 boat bays for RHIBs and USVs/UUVs. The ship is also fitted with a helicopter hangar and a flight deck.

You've never written a typo? Jackass

I have. And when I get called on them I can usually laugh about it.

But really, that was a pretty funny typo from a supposedly professional website.
 

Tzoli

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Maybe it is a new kind of Propeller? A Planet Gear propeller with two shafts rotating the single propeller? XD
5c0fd4bd578e6e3e11b014aeac429622.jpg
 

Ron5

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I see it has a CODAD. Is that better than a Doodad? And I'm looking forward to seeing how the connect one propeller to two shafts.

On a more serious note, I assume they got a package deal on the guns from BAE. Both 57mm and 40mm seems a bit redundant.

Do we know if there is at least a weight allowance for some deck-launched SSMs later?

General characteristics:

Type 31 is a general-purpose frigate with a displacement of 5700 tonnes and a length of 138.7 m (455 ft). The ship is equipped with 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 20V 8000 M71 (8.2-MW) diesel engines, 4 x Rolls Royce/MTU 16V 2000 M41B (900kW) generators, a MAN Alpha VBS Mk 5 CP propeller, two shafts and a CODAD. It can reach the maximum speed of 28 knots and has an endurance of 9,000 nautical miles.

The armament of the ship comprises VLS Sea Ceptor anti-air missiles, 1x57 mm Mk 110 main gun and 2x40mm Mk 4 secondary guns. Sensors and processing systems onboard are the TACTICOS combat management system, Thales NS110 3D radar, SharpEye navigation radar, 2 Mirador Mk2 EOS and the Vigile-D ESM.

The frigate can accommodate an 80-100 crew, 1 × Wildcat or 1 × Merlin, 6 TEUs and 4 boat bays for RHIBs and USVs/UUVs. The ship is also fitted with a helicopter hangar and a flight deck.

You've never written a typo? Jackass

I have. And when I get called on them I can usually laugh about it.

But really, that was a pretty funny typo from a supposedly professional website.

Guess you need to get out more. Difficult these days tho.

"supposedly" professional?? Srsly?
 

TomS

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Guess you need to get out more. Difficult these days tho.

"supposedly" professional?? Srsly?

OK, "supposedly" was unfair, I'll admit (see, that's an apology). I recognize the Naval Recognition website, but I have no idea who runs it or what their background is. There are many similar sites that seem to be basically content mills.
 

Pirate Pete

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Has there been any indication as to possible name selection for the Type 31’s?
 

Foo Fighter

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I'd like to know the capability gap between the type 26 and type 31 and how adaptable is the type 31 as far as upgrading in the future. That the types have moved some type 45's further down the line is acceptable if they are to be able to adapt the type 31's reasonably.
 

TomS

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I'd like to know the capability gap between the type 26 and type 31 and how adaptable is the type 31 as far as upgrading in the future. That the types have moved some type 45's further down the line is acceptable if they are to be able to adapt the type 31's reasonably.

Current capability seems pretty clear -- the Type 31 is basically a patrol ship with some basic self-defense capability against air and surface targets. It might have some growth margin for additional CAMM and and improved radar plus maybe some SSMs, but it's never going to be remotely comparable to the Type 26 or Type 45. In particular, it will never have much (if any) ASW capability. Some basic features like quieting and sonar have to be built in from the start, and the Type 31s simply don't have them.

The wildcard in the RN plans has to be the Type 32, which was announced but with almost zero detail as to mission or capability. It could be a T31 reworked to a higher spec or something else entirely (drone mothership has been suggested). No one really knows yet.
 

Foo Fighter

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Thanks for that, it would be nice to know what those type 32's really turn out like though.
 

starviking

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I'd like to know the capability gap between the type 26 and type 31 and how adaptable is the type 31 as far as upgrading in the future. That the types have moved some type 45's further down the line is acceptable if they are to be able to adapt the type 31's reasonably.

Current capability seems pretty clear -- the Type 31 is basically a patrol ship with some basic self-defense capability against air and surface targets. It might have some growth margin for additional CAMM and and improved radar plus maybe some SSMs, but it's never going to be remotely comparable to the Type 26 or Type 45. In particular, it will never have much (if any) ASW capability. Some basic features like quieting and sonar have to be built in from the start, and the Type 31s simply don't have them.

The wildcard in the RN plans has to be the Type 32, which was announced but with almost zero detail as to mission or capability. It could be a T31 reworked to a higher spec or something else entirely (drone mothership has been suggested). No one really knows yet.
I would hope that being based on the Iver Huitfeld class, which are within spitting distance of 7,000 tons displacement, that the growth margins would be sufficient for much improved capability. The IHs can carry up to 32 SM-2s and 48 ESSMs.
 

uk 75

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I have some sympathy with the RN. Although it needs sophisticated assets for "General War" much of the RN's peacetime duties are routine patrol work or peace support.
Using a Type 22 as West Indies Guardship for example was not necessarily a good use for a dedicated ASW platform for the North Atlantic.
The Icelandic gunboats made short work of thin skinned frigates during the Cod Wars.
 

Foo Fighter

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Agreed, the mix of abilities sort of mimicking the need for armour with the army, they need a good spread of ability and THAT will need a bigger navy. I hope we get it.
 

DWG

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I'd like to know the capability gap between the type 26 and type 31 and how adaptable is the type 31 as far as upgrading in the future. That the types have moved some type 45's further down the line is acceptable if they are to be able to adapt the type 31's reasonably.
I think the chances of any further Type 45s are essentially zero. An AAW focused Type 26 is the likeliest future AAW platform.
 

uk 75

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Thanks to my Weyers Fleets book I am able to compare the assets of major navies. Leaving aside the three top economic powers (USA, China, Japan) who can afford more or less what they feel like, the remaining navies tend to have limited numbers of Air Defence ships.
For example, France only has two comparable with T45. Norway has 4 capable AD frigates (it had five but one sank).
The trend seems to be heading to smaller future platforms, so an AD Type 26 would seem logical.
 

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