Type 052DL (stretched variant of Type 052D destroyer)

How fast is PLAN iterating ship designs?

What is up with America in comparison? It is not like the US sends less money.
 
Things like LCS and trying to design destroyers that could replace cruisers (and failing miserably, not surprisingly) have taken their toll, not to mention incompetence and corruption in general.
 
shin_getter said:
How fast is PLAN iterating ship designs?

What is up with America in comparison? It is not like the US sends less money.
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From the articles, this isn't a new ship design. It's essentially to the 052D what the Flight IIA was to the Burkes. And in general a hull stretch is pretty easy to iterate.

China has also been helped, with their destroyer designs, by reusing the same hull with different sensor, armament, and propulsion fits since the Type 051B. Their only clean-sheet new designs have been the Type 055 destroyer and Type 054 frigate.

So "What is up with America" is that we've been futzing around mostly with clean-sheet designs, which naturally take longer to develop than the more iterative process the PLAN has been conducting. Not to mention that Chinese development times are a hell of a lot less transparent than American to us Anglosphere commentators.
 
shin_getter said:
How fast is PLAN iterating ship designs?

What is up with America in comparison? It is not like the US sends less money.
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Just the DDG-51 class alone features 4 "Flights," if you want to get even more granular you can see double-digit major variants of the class without even breaking a sweat.
 
Bhurki said:
stealthflanker said:
I like their VLS. It's what UKSK supposed to be but for some reason unable to deliver.
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Explain ?!
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The UKSK Were supposed to be a really Universal VLS for both cruise missiles and SAM's. But as we see the current UKSK doesnt seem to live up that philosophy (e.g the one used for Kalibr is different with one used for Redut).
 
Moose said:
Just the DDG-51 class alone features 4 "Flights," if you want to get even more granular you can see double-digit major variants of the class without even breaking a sweat.
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same with the US SSN.
 
Comparing the 055 and the 052D, the second picture is a 052D that is being equipped.
This is the most recent new batch of 052D, and it is unclear whether this is the last batch.
 

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SUPER=BUG said:
Comparing the 055 and the 052D, the second picture is a 052D that is being equipped.
This is the most recent new batch of 052D, and it is unclear whether this is the last batch.
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Would China offer the 052D for export eventually? Given that they're slowly moving forward, away from the class. It may be a decent choice for aligned or even non-aligned countries seeking a powerful and modern surface combatant
 
EmoBirb said:
Would China offer the 052D for export eventually? Given that they're slowly moving forward, away from the class. It may be a decent choice for aligned or even non-aligned countries seeking a powerful and modern surface combatant
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Type 052DE has been offered for export for years already.
 
In fact, the problem has always been that those who want to buy it don't have the money, and those who have the money are not allowed by politics. Countries like Pakistan would only order some higher-spec export versions of the 054A, while countries like Cambodia use the 056C and have absolutely no need for the 052D. Who would have enough funds to buy a 052D fleet? Most likely, they will buy some custom versions of the 054A in the future. Very few other countries in the world need ships like the 052D.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
Is it possible that this is the last batch of Type 052D?
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It is possible, yes. China is approaching 50 modern destroyers and is slated to have around sixty destroyers total after the end of the current construction batches, which is right around what it needs for the apparent force structure. More to the point, the 052Ds are the end point of a run of iterative design dating back to the 1990s; to be frank, the 052DLs are in a similar position to the IIA Burkes, being an old hull heavily packed full of stuff and very much reaching their limits as a design.

I would not be surprised if the PLAN wants to end their production and move onto a clean-sheet design, whether that's all Type 055s or something else.
 
From a demand perspective, China currently doesn't have destroyers with mid-range missile defense interception capability, so I think there might be new ships.

I'm just making a little joke here; maybe this ship will show up before the H-20's first flight.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
From a demand perspective, China currently doesn't have destroyers with mid-range missile defense interception capability, so I think there might be new ships.

I'm just making a little joke here; maybe this ship will show up before the H-20's first flight.
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Well, to take the joke seriously, I would think the Chinese would just backfit mid-range air defense into their existing ships - that's one of the big advantages of VLS, you just need a new missile and some integration work.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
From a demand perspective, China currently doesn't have destroyers with mid-range missile defense interception capability, so I think there might be new ships.

I'm just making a little joke here; maybe this ship will show up before the H-20's first flight.
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Allegedly already under construction at JN, it's possible to be similar to the Zumwalt hulled CG(X) but smaller at 14000t and with much modern subsystems/weaponry. As for 052D, we had rumors from a reasonably credible poster that there were no further orders for this 5 year plan as of right now hence the total number built is likely 42 or 43.
 
Tomboy said:
Allegedly already under construction at JN, it's possible to be similar to the Zumwalt hulled CG(X) but smaller at 14000t and with much modern subsystems/weaponry. As for 052D, we had rumors from a reasonably credible poster that there were no further orders for this 5 year plan as of right now hence the total number built is likely 42 or 43.
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Really? Then this kind of ship might appear by the end of this year, and we'll know by then.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
From a demand perspective, China currently doesn't have destroyers with mid-range missile defense interception capability, so I think there might be new ships.

I'm just making a little joke here; maybe this ship will show up before the H-20's first flight.
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Mid-range or mid-course?

If the former, our understanding is that HQ-9C is in fact usable from UVLS ships(052, 055).
If the latter, then 055 is possibly that ship.
 
Ainen said:
Mid-range or mid-course?

If the former, our understanding is that HQ-9C is in fact usable from UVLS ships(052, 055).
If the latter, then 055 is possibly that ship.
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My fault, actually what I should say is mid-course.

Actually, I'm still pretty skeptical about whether the 055 can do this. At least, the 14 ships that have been launched so far probably don't have this capability.
 
Nx4eu said:
Not quad packable. It's at most dual packable. IIRC HHQ-9C is >500mm in maximum diameter
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From last week's podcast we can either conclude HHQ-9C with booster is quadpackable or HHQ-9C without booster is somehow comparable in performance to PAC 3MSE while being quadpackable.
 
SUPER=BUG said:
Actually, I'm still pretty skeptical about whether the 055 can do this. At least, the 14 ships that have been launched so far probably don't have this capability.
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Burkes can, and not even late ones.
Midcourse isn't that much of a capability requirement for a modern destroyer.

More so for a weapon and space S/A picture.
 

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