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Trommsdorff Projects WW2

moin1900

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Hi everybody

15cm Trommsdorff ramjet-shell
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?p=9961

D-6000 ramjet missile

Trommsdorff anti aircraft rocket
www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%200649.html

Maybe someone knows some more projects ?
I have heard Trommsdorff developed things for the V-2/A-4 ?

Many greetings
 

Grzesio

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Well, Trommsdorff developed a number of designs in a number of classes. These included series E of gun fired experimental shells, A with rocket boosters, B fired from special mortars, C fired from long range guns, D intercontinental missiles and F for flak guns.
Probably the C3 shell for the 28 cm K 5 (E) railway gun is the best known example.
But one thing is strange in the linked article for me... It says...
Dr. Wolf Trommsdorff, home after many years in Soviet hands, recounted the ramjet development which he had undertaken for the Army at Kummersdorff (the mysterious "Trommsdorff shells").
I have read a Russian book quite recently, stating that after the war Trommsdorff was a chief designer of a Soviet design office led by Mr Sudakov, which had to design a 283 mm ramjet shell, but these works were cancelled after Trommsdorff was killed in an air crash in 1946, as well as due to technological difficulties.

Regards

Grzesio

PS The Trommsdorff shell from the first link is apparently the E4, a 28 kg heavy projectile reaching 1460 m/s.
 

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moin1900

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Hi everybody

To Grzesio
Sorry for my late reply. Thanks for the very good information !
I would like to know more about the D and F series ?
Do you know more about them ?
Any drawings or pictures ?

Thanks a lot and Many greetings
 

Grzesio

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I have sadly nothing more on the F series, but I've seen cross sectional drawings of the D6000 (plus basic data) some time ago, as well as a missile of the A series. I just have to find it. :)
The D6000 was to be a pilotless aircraft with tubular fuselage, air intake (with Oswatitsch axial diffuser - just like the C3) in the nose, swept wings and a T-shaped fin.

Kind regards

Grzesio
 

Justo Miranda

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Trommsdorff missiles here...
 

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Firefly 2

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These are amazing designs, never heard of anything like it. I suppose that the C3 and other canon fired shells were spin stabilized, but was there a version for the smoothbore, dart projectile firing version of the K5?
 

Justo Miranda

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E1
88 mm fired from an 88 mm antiaircraft gun
Gun muzzle speed Mach 2.5
Test with compressed powder propellant in 1939
With liquid propellant (Mach 3) in 1942


E2
105 mm


E3
122 mm


E4
150 mm
Test in 1945
Fuel carbon disulphide
Net thrust 400 kp
Weight 28 kg
Gun muzzle speed 3385 km/h
Max speed Mach 4.5
Length 0.635 m.


C3
280 mm
Thrust 2000kp
Weight 170 kg
Gun muzzle speed 4400km/h
Max Speed Mach 5.5
Range 350 km
Length 1.35 m


D6000
Launched from carrier aircraft at 14.000m. and 720 km/h
Max speed Mach 4.0 at 24.000m
Range 5000 km
No dimensions available.
 

GTX

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Is it just me, or does the D6000 look a bit like the ancestor to the Myasishchev Buran intercontinental cruise missile?

Regards,

Greg
 

Grzesio

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D6000
Launched from carrier aircraft at 14.000m. and 720 km/h
Max speed Mach 4.0 at 24.000m
Range 5000 km
No dimensions available.
I also encountered information about launching from an aircraft at 8000 m, as well as from a rocket catapult. The D6000 had to be just over 10 meters long.

Regards

Grzesio

PS This topic mobilized me to build some long planned Trommsdorff 3D models at last. :)
Below is the illustration of the vast size of the A4 missile, shown by Justo above.
 

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Firefly 2

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Justo Miranda said:
C3
280 mm
Thrust 2000kp
Weight 170 kg
Gun muzzle speed 4400km/h
Max Speed Mach 5.5
Range 350 km
Length 1.35 m

That is some serious range, it's hard to imagine any kind of accuracy with the figures though. Remember the Paris Gun. It did have a stupendous range, but had so little accuracy and it wasn't able to put much steel on target, which reduced it military value to pure propaganda.
 

Meteorit

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Thanks to moin1900 for bringing up the D6000, and Justo and Grzesio for posting pics: I had not heard of this project before. Strangely I haven't seen it mentioned in connection with the US Navaho or Soviet Burya/Buran intercontinental cruise missiles even though it could well be considered as their predecessor, while the winged A-9/A-10 and Sänger's hypersonic bomber are often presented as their "forefathers".
 

fightingirish

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In the latest German Bookazine "Fliegerrevue X"is an article about the Trommsdorff D-6000 ramjet cruise missile.
Link: http://www.fliegerrevuex.aero/mach-35-interkontinentalflugkoerper-der-luftwaffe-1944/
 

hesham

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Trommsdorff Missile Projects

Hi,

http://www.fliegerrevuex.aero/mach-35-interkontinentalflugkoerper-der-luftwaffe-1944/
 

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athpilot

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Re: German Air Force 1944 Mach 3.5 intercontinental missile

...ahh, the well known D-6000. Btw: The D series was probably the most interesting of all Trommsdorff projects. Does anybody know more about the other D´s?
 

hesham

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Re: German Air Force 1944 Mach 3.5 intercontinental missile

athpilot said:
...ahh, the well known D-6000. Btw: The D series was probably the most interesting of all Trommsdorff projects. Does anybody know more about the other D´s?

Thank you Athpilot,

but also we can ask if there was a manned Projects ?.
 

hesham

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Re: Trommsdorff Missile Projects

Hi,

the first time to know,the D6000 was a competitor to A-10 ?.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.military/ARjkTFFNCxc
 

Dilandu

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Re: Trommsdorff Missile Projects

I'm very suspicious about the allegations that "Burya" missile was influenced by supposed German project... Works on "Byrua" intercontinental cruise missile started only in mid-1950s, long after all German engineers returned home from USSR.

Frankly, it seems suspiciously like some attempt to "retrospectively invent" a "German origin" for advanced Soviet project by linking it with long-forgotten German missile.
 
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