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Tri-Service VTOL Transport proposals (XC-142 competition)

hesham

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Hi,

was that the Grumman Tri-Service proposal ?.
 

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Hood

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hesham, I think it is. I've seen that picture before somewhere but I'll need to do a little digging to confirm.
 

circle-5

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Bell factory model of D-2064 Tri-Service VTOL transport. Note Lockheed logo on vertical. [Tony Chong collection]
 

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Orionblamblam

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circle-5 said:
Bell factory model of D-2064 Tri-Service VTOL transport.

They kinda cheaped out on the ducts & props. I can understand that... such things would be a pain to make and fragile. But it does look kinda... off. They at least should have painted the areas between the props black or something.
 

hesham

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boxkite said:
Checking John Paul Campbell's book "Vertical Takeoff and Landing Aircraft" (MacMillan, New York, 1962) again, I believe there were the following Tri-Service competitors:

LTV-Hiller-Ryan (the later winner = XC-142)
Bell (Helicopter Company) D252
Bell (Aerosystems Company with Lockheed) D2064
Grumman (type number unknown)
North American (type number unknown - the topic of this thread)
Boeing Vertol BV (137?)


We can add;


Grummna G-242
Fairchild M-351
Boeing Model-900
Douglas Model-828/A
 

Stargazer2006

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The Vought-Hiller-Ryan project was designated VHR-447 (in the Vought numbering system).
The Boeing Vertol project was indeed the Model 137.
I cannot guarantee that M-351 refered to the whole SS-478A proposal or only some systems. What I have found under that number is a 1961 report about a "proposed low speed system investigation for Tri-Service VTOL Assault Transport".
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
And may be it was Douglas Model-828/A;

Quite possibly so. This patent drawing shows the 1961 Douglas/Doak tilt-duct project, so it's perfectly consistent with it being either the Douglas D-828 or the D-829.
Alternately, it could also be this one:
 

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Stargazer2006

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The Boeing Vertol BV-137 was one of the numerous contenders for the Tri-Service VTOL program which was won by the Vought-Hiller-Ryan XC-142A...
 

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overscan (PaulMM)

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From Mark Nankivil - Vought C-142 artwork.
 

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Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
Hi,

for the military tri-service transport competition of 1961,Bell joined
with Lockheed and submitted a tilt-wing proposal,does anyone know
this competition for USAF ?,which later led to developed the Bell
X-22 for the Navy.

The Bell/Lockheed project was the D2064. This was a tilt-duct, not tilt-wing project (Bell didn't do much tilt-wing research, that was more Boeing's specialty).

Check out the pics below (zoomed in from this topic) and you'll see the Lockheed mention is pretty clear).
 

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hesham

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Hi,


and may be that was Grumman G-242.


http://jpcolliat.free.fr/x18/x18-1.htm
 

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hesham

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hesham

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And;
 

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hesham

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hesham said:
A big surprise to all members;


I found the Tri-Service competition and its contenders,they are;


Douglas D-828 & D-829
Silkorsky
North American
Bell/Lockheed D-2064
McDonnell M-175 & M-177
Boeing-Vertol BV.137
Boeing-Wichita Model-900
Vanguard Model-30
Breguet Br.941
LTV XC-142

also we can add Bell D-252,Fairchild M-351 and Grumman G-242.


http://halfdome.arc.nasa.gov/Publications/files/AHSDuganFinal_TiltrotorThrustControl_1029_12408.pdf


The Boeing Model-900 looks familiar.
 

Orionblamblam

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I've been trying to convince the author of that paper to share the sources. However, it seems that the sources are a big pallet of reports, and he's understandably less than enthusiastic about shipping off such things to a stranger.
 

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Orionblamblam said:
I've been trying to convince the author of that paper to share the sources. However, it seems that the sources are a big pallet of reports, and he's understandably less than enthusiastic about shipping off such things to a stranger.

:)
 

hesham

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hesham said:
A big surprise to all members;


I found the Tri-Service competition and its contenders,they are;


Douglas D-828 & D-829
Silkorsky
North American
Bell/Lockheed D-2064
McDonnell M-175 & M-177
Boeing-Vertol BV.137
Boeing-Wichita Model-900
Vanguard Model-30
Breguet Br.941
LTV XC-142

also we can add Bell D-252,Fairchild M-351 and Grumman G-242.


http://halfdome.arc.nasa.gov/Publications/files/AHSDuganFinal_TiltrotorThrustControl_1029_12408.pdf


They transfer it into a NASA report;


http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20140008647.pdf
 

elmayerle

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circle-5 said:
Pictured here is the North American Aviation factory proposal model for the Tri-Service VTOL competition. Note main gear wheels, which stay exposed when retracted. Fenestron-type pitch rotor is also noteworthy.
The exposed main gear reminds me of the exposed main gear of the long-fuselage MU-2 which can do a gear-up landing with comparatively minor damage to the nose only as the exposed retracted main gear can still support it.
 

hesham

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Also from Flying Review 2/1962,


here is a more info about Bell D-2022.
 

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Triton

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Model of Ling-Temco-Vought (LTV) XC-142 manufactured by Topping found on eBay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Topping-XC-142A-V-STOL-11-wingspan-desktop-display-articulated-model-plane-SALE-/261838032954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf6c3503a
 

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Stargazer2006

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Douglas D-828 and D-829 proposals for the 1961 Tri-Service VTOL Transport competition:

Douglas proposed both a tilting, ducted fan entry and a tilting turboprop.
These two VTOL transport designs had many identical components, including the fuselage and vertical fin.
The cockpit design and layouts were the same and both throttles and collective controls were used for thrust control. Four T-64 engines drove the four, ducted fans and the aircraft was predicted to fly at 250 knots.

Source: THRUST CONTROL OF VTOL AIRCRAFT – PART DEUX (DANIEL C. DUGAN)

Amusingly, the D-828 painting shows bits of the -829's wingtip stabilizers that were not properly covered upon...
 

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Stargazer2006

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Thanks a lot for merging these topics. Now we have a very valuable resource on the subject, all in one place! :)

One final suggestion though: rename the topic as "Tri-Service VTOL Transport proposals (XC-142 competition)", as some of the designs were tilt-duct for instance, not just tilt-wing...
 

hesham

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Hi,

http://archive.aviationweek.com/image/spread/19610612/51/2
 

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hesham

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The McDonnell M-175;

http://documents.techno-science.ca/documents/CASM-Aircrafthistories-CanadairCL-84VSTOLhistory.pdf
 

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yasotay

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What a great find! Another superb program falling victim to politics.
 

hesham

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yasotay said:
What a great find! Another superb program falling victim to politics.

I think it was not failed by politics,the concept need a small development but they
didn't do it,I offer a solution to a company by my own creation design,but they
didn't listen.
 

Bill S

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In letter VC-3101 From Verticraft Corporation to the Chief, Bureau of Naval Weapons "Verticraft regrets its inability to submit a proposal on the Tri-Service VTOL as this time. The primary reason being that information was requested and received too late (10 March 1961) for the required preparation." The letter further states "Verticraft, however, feels it has a very unique vehicle in that it offers high forward speeds in a true VTOL aircraft, ..." Source NARA
 

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Bill S

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Another interesting partnership. Piasecki Aircraft elected to join efforts with Bell-Lockheed groups VTOL proposal providing their ducted propeller and fan systems technical background. (Piasecki Letter No N-382 dated 3 April 1961)
 

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robunos

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Naah, Dude . . . the crew just lean from side to side, like Kirk and Co. on the bridge of the Enterprise . . .

cheers,
Robin.
 

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