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TR-3 "Black Manta"

phrenzy

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Wasn't the other theory that TR was Teledyne Ryan, indicating that it was an in house design designation?

As for the recce component of CSIRS the f-117 was there some talk of a recon version of the f-117 itself (f-117r)? I can see how a common platform for stealthy deep strike and then stealthy damage assessment could make sense. Given that, I always wondered if the supposed secret companion triangular aircraft was just a slightly different f-117.

As for quartz and AARS, I thought that was aimed at very long range, very long endurance recon to track Road mobile ICBMs and other things that might move in between satellite fly overs. Much more of a strategic recon platform than a companion to a tactical strike aircraft. As mentioned before this forum has collected some of the BEST information on quartz. I can't remember exactly where but on one of the quartz/AARS threads there was a link to a fantastic in depth report by a former blue suit turned academic that briefly hinted at a high speed high speed NRO component of the program.
 

Mr London 24/7

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Quartz/AARS was a different mission, ref from paper here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,511.msg92819.html#msg92819
 

Black Dog

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phrenzy said:
As for the recce component of CSIRS the f-117 was there some talk of a recon version of the f-117 itself (f-117r)? I can see how a common platform for stealthy deep strike and then stealthy damage assessment could make sense. Given that, I always wondered if the supposed secret companion triangular aircraft was just a slightly different f-117.

Story of F-117 recon is outlined here:
http://aviationintel.com/it-could-have-been-the-rf-117-reconnaissance-nighthawk/

Just more fuel to the fire for TR-3A or similar.
 

tacitblue

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About 10 years ago Tom Clancy spoke about his sources telling him about 3 still classified operational aircraft. The gist was, two of them are manned, and one is supersonic. I can no longer find that interview.
 

Stargazer2006

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phrenzy said:
Given that, I always wondered if the supposed secret companion triangular aircraft was just a slightly different f-117.

This notion of a "slightly different F-117" also reminds me of the rumored "Artichoke" that was spotted on several occasions during the 1990s.
 

Mr London 24/7

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http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11250.msg215164.html#msg215164
 

RavenOne

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quellish said:
Mr London 24/7 said:
Talk of a 'TR-3A' or 'F-19' completely discredited all early mention of an F-117 Companion from late-Eighties/early-Nineties (and continues to do so).

However... the former boom operator who has given brief details of such an aircraft on ATS in the last year is the real deal:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/confessions-of-a-usaf-kc-135-flying-gas-station-boom-op-1578048155

(See also http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,16089.msg170370.html#msg170370)


The idea that the "TR-3" serves as a high altitude lasing platform for the F-117 is odd. Lasers don't work so well from high altitude, or through weather. The F-117 wasn't designed to hit mobile targets which might necessitate such a "buddy" platform.


Throughout the 80s the press reported that the stealth fighter was the product of the "CSIRS" program (Covert Survivable In-Weather Recce/Strike). When the F-117 was revealed to be a strike aircraft, some people wondered where the covert recce component was. This may have been where the idea of a "buddy" aircraft came from, at least in relation to the "TR-3". Now there is some certainty that there was no "CSIRS" program at all.

That also reminds me of another recent article on Foxtrot Alpha of air to air refuel of the RQ-170 Sentinel ..........

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/is-this-proof-that-the-us-air-force-can-aerially-refuel-1702048915

cheers
 

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RavenOne

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Skyblazer said:
Already mentioned and posted in another topic here, a 1993 artist's depiction of the would-be TR-3A "Black Manta":

index.php

More questions than answers, I read the similar bits in Air International 1994 September issue - the Farnborough special where they talk about the F-117A/TR-3 combo during Desert Storm.

More questions than answers

-1) The scanned two page article later on in this thread mentions the basing of the TR-3B alongside the F-117A at Holloman, under the new 49th FW post Desert Storm it be nigh on impossible to fly the TR-3B due to the other busy residents on the installation.

- Holloman for one always has a large Luftwaffe training unit then on F-4F PHantoms now Tornados plus the army's flight detachment back then of C-12, Bell OH-58C and Bell UH-1H supporting the White Sands Missile Range next door, plus a tactical fighter training unit with T-38.

- The move to Holloman meant the 117 would be operating in daylight...so if thats the case then should not the Black Manta be doing the same??


2) What happened when the 117 was officially retired back a few years ago (we do not count the ones been seen still flying around on test eval back in their old haunts in the sunny Nevada oasis) Did that mean the Black Manta was also retired as well?


3) Why has not the TR-3 been made public at least been acknowledged?

cheers
 

hesham

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Hi,

a two men from Iraq saw this aircraft as in the picture,and they swear by God,the wonderful thing
they didn't know each other,first one saw it in 1997,and second in 2003,of course it was over Iraq
and that happened in the night ?.
 

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FighterJock

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hesham said:
Hi,

a two men from Iraq saw this aircraft as in the picture,and they swear by God,the wonderful thing
they didn't know each other,first one saw it in 1997,and second in 2003,of course it was over Iraq
and that happened in the night ?.

If the TR-3 Black Manta was operational in 1997 and in service in Iraq in 2003, why don't the USAF de-classify it by now?
 

Foo Fighter

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Perhaps because it is still in service, and they hate the idea that anything should be known until at least fifty years after it goes out of service, or it is a hoax and never existed in the first place. You know, having worked in Saudi Arabia and visited various desert locations, it has stopped surprising me what the the indigenous population will drink, snort or inhale. It would certainly explain the bright lights etc.
 

sublight is back

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FighterJock said:
hesham said:
Hi,

a two men from Iraq saw this aircraft as in the picture,and they swear by God,the wonderful thing
they didn't know each other,first one saw it in 1997,and second in 2003,of course it was over Iraq
and that happened in the night ?.

If the TR-3 Black Manta was operational in 1997 and in service in Iraq in 2003, why don't the USAF de-classify it by now?

I don't think any of the services are in a hurry to declassify anything. If Orionblamblam had not come across "quiet bird", nobody would have seen it to this day.
But realistically, based on the pictures coming out of the SDASM archives, TR-3 "black manta" was most likely a teledyne-ryan drone that got urban legended way out of proportion. And if the Navy made a bigger badder classified version, we would likely never see it because they are even worse than the Air Force in declassifying material.
 

hesham

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FighterJock said:
If the TR-3 Black Manta was operational in 1997 and in service in Iraq in 2003, why don't the USAF de-classify it by now?

Good question,

this high technology must be in secret for several years,and the last man in Kirkuk (2003),saw it about one minute
and it disappeared in just two second,that means it had a hypersonic speed.
 

sublight is back

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hesham said:
FighterJock said:
If the TR-3 Black Manta was operational in 1997 and in service in Iraq in 2003, why don't the USAF de-classify it by now?

Good question,

this high technology must be in secret for several years,and the last man in Kirkuk (2003),saw it about one minute
and it disappeared in just two second,that means it had a hypersonic speed.

I want to meet this man. Apparently he can see bullets.
 

hesham

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sublight is back said:
I want to meet this man. Apparently he can see bullets.

How is that ?,I only read his comment on Internet with his explanation and description to the
aircraft exactly as in the picture which I displayed it.
 

sferrin

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sublight is back said:
I want to meet this man. Apparently he can see bullets.

Why would you think that? I can look up and watch the ISS fly over and it's far faster than bullets.
 

sublight is back

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sferrin said:
sublight is back said:
I want to meet this man. Apparently he can see bullets.

Why would you think that? I can look up and watch the ISS fly over and it's far faster than bullets.

Seriously? The ISS far larger by an order of magnitude, its well lit by the sun, and even at its 17k+ mph speed, it takes more than a minute to cross the arc of the sky. If he saw something that small, at hypersonic speeds, that disappeared in "two seconds", then surely the man can see bullets....
 

sublight is back

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hesham said:
Hi,

a two men from Iraq saw this aircraft as in the picture,and they swear by God,the wonderful thing
they didn't know each other,first one saw it in 1997,and second in 2003,of course it was over Iraq
and that happened in the night ?.

Hesham, can you quote the full accounts or link to the full accounts of this aircraft sighting?
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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I may be missing something but 'TR-3' was explained long ago as a mishearing of 'Tier 3' UAV program. It never existed. Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a secret delta wing aircraft/RPV, but if it exists, it isn't called "TR-3".
 

sublight is back

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Change the thread title to "unknown black delta wing platforms"?

I think its more likely pumped up legend from teledyne ryan black delta RPV's than "tier 3".
 

hesham

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PaulMM (Overscan) said:
I may be missing something but 'TR-3' was explained long ago as a mishearing of 'Tier 3' UAV program. It never existed. Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a secret delta wing aircraft/RPV, but if it exists, it isn't called "TR-3".

That's solving the problem,I agree with my dear Paul,

and for the member Sublight,as I remembered he didn't photo it,and in the night and if you in the middle
of any town,two second is enough to disappeared,I mean between buildings and not at full arc of the sky,
but as he claimed,it had a very high speed never seen like it before,clearly he knew something about
Aviation,exactly where on Internet,hard to find.
 

Foo Fighter

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As far as I know the last time the buddy system with laser designators was used was Op Granby where the Buccaneers did designator duty for Tornado's.
 

JAZZ

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date relates to my discovery, not when the render was first used.
 

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flateric

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this is an early ATB speculation from media
 

flateric

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...an early speculation from forum member Erik Simonsen, apparently with a punch from other forum member Sweetman and Badrocke concept
I bet Airfix Vulcan kit was used as basis
 

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archipeppe

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...an early speculation from forum member Erik Simonsen, apparently with a punch from other forum member Sweetman and Badrocke concept
I bet Airfix Vulcan kit was used as basis

For sure the wing design is essentially the same.
 

RavenOne

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dug out my late 90s F-117 collection (t shirt from RAF Mildenhall Air Fete from the 117 Unit).

Anyhow like to draw your attention to extract from my first book ..Airpowe Special published in1995.

The author mentions some unmanned vehicle tested few times then broken up and buried deep in the desert when explaining the myths of the TR-3.

67E038AE-65C2-4AB2-8631-2D8938F7160C.jpeg EEEC7503-F363-4BA9-8D62-0B5B045B4875.jpeg View attachment 643847 17189B22-74E8-4669-A547-44AE63F822DE.jpeg
 

quellish

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Hood

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This sounds like the usual embellished tales, why would you go to all the effort of breaking up a crashed airframe and then drag it out into the middle of nowhere to bury it?
You could say its a way to maintain super top secrecy, on the other hand its a convenient lack of evidence to prove it existed in the first place and if it was so secret how does the author know about its fate?
 

Fluff

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If I needed to dispose of a traditional airframe, a bit of petrol and then call the local scrap man.

if its carbon fibre etc, blow it up/machine gun it until its not recognisable, and again call the local scrap man.
 

SOC

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Didn't they break up and bury the HAVE BLUE airframes? I wonder if the author is referring to SENIOR PROM.
 

Vahe Demirjian

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Didn't they break up and bury the HAVE BLUE airframes? I wonder if the author is referring to SENIOR PROM.
The HAVE BLUE airframes were destroyed during flight testing; the second HAVE BLUE airframe was buried at the Nellis Air Force Base Complex. The Senior Prom was a Lockheed program for a technology demonstrator for a stealthy cruise missile. Testing of the Senior Prom began during Carter's presidency and was completed during Ronald Reagan's second year in office. However, the author refers to a single unmanned airframe, and because six Senior Prom test vehicles were built and flown, I think the author may have been referring to an undisclosed subscale tech demonstrator for the cancelled Quartz program to develop an SR-71 replacement.
 
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