The Royal Navy Cruiser-Destroyer Designs

[Tzoli]

Here I've tried to collect all the proposals and designs that were studied in the Cruiser-Destroyer Project of the Royal Navy Between 1949 and 1953
My Sources are:
British Destroyers and Frigates: The Second World War and After - Norman Friedman
W.G. John's Constructor Notebook No.15
Forum Member Hood's post here:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/cruiser-destroyer.33708/page-2#post-392793

The following 3 are from Friedman's book and shows the 3 as I call them Pre-Designs or Proposals with which the entire design process started.
Proposed by Rear Admiral Sir Ralph Alan Bevan Edwards and refined by DNC and Friedman sourced it to DNC Papers Volume 78 (National Maritime Museum (Brass Foundry)

Cruiser-Destroyer Pre-Design I - 1949 June
Dimensions: Unknown
Displacement: About 5.000tons (Likely Fully Loaded)
Engines: Unknown, but very likely 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: Unknown, around 30-30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
2x2 or 4x1 5"/70 QF Mark N1 Guns (At this time likely the longer /70 gun, the first iteration of this weapon)
Likely 2x2 40mm/56 OQF Mark X Guns (STAAG Mountings)
Likely 1x3 Limbo ASW
Likely 8x1 21" Fixed Torpedo Launchers (Single, for the Bidder Long Range Homing Torpedo)

Sensor suite:
2x LRS.1 Directors for the main guns Surface mode (From WG John's Workbook)
2x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns AA Mode (From WG John's Workbook)
2x CRBFD For the STAAGs
Likely:
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars or Type 177 Sonar

Cruiser-Destroyer Pre-Design II - 1949 Late June (Refinement of the above proposal)
Dimensions: 141,73 (wl) x 14,63m
Displacement: 4.600tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: Unknown, but very likely 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: Unknown, around 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/70 QF Mark N1 Guns (Twins considered too heavy)
2x2 40mm/56 OQF Mark X Guns (STAAG Mountings or comparable to them)
1x3 Limbo ASW
8x 21" Fixed Torpedo Launchers (Meaning 4 per side as of Friedman's description)
Ruler Anti-Torpedo Weapon

Sensor suite:
2x LRS.1 Directors for the main guns Surface mode (From WG John's Workbook)
3x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns AA Mode (From WG John's Workbook)
2x CRBFD For the STAAGs (As of Friedman's description)
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars or Type 177 Sonar

Info for this design according to Friedman was from the Notebook 767/2 of J.C. Cooper and DNC saw it barely feasible
Cruiser-Destroyer Pre-Design III - 1950 January/February
Dimensions: 141,73 (wl) x 14,63m
Displacement: 4.750tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/70 QF Mark N1 Guns
3x1 3"/50 RF Mark 22 Guns (Friedman mentions that the designers chose this weapon, yet there is no evidence in W.G. John's Workbook that this was the case)
1x3 Limbo ASW
8-16x 21" Fixed Torpedo Launchers (On the Broadside by Friedman's description so it could 8 on each side?)
"Double" Ruler Anti-Torpedo Weapon

Sensor suite:
1x LRS.1 Directors for the main guns Surface mode
2x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns AA Mode (Friedman's description states one director would had full AA and Surface capability, 2 would have full AA and limited Surface capability)
3 Directors (Likely MRS.3) for the 3" guns
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar (No mention but likely)
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 170,172 and likely 177 Sonars
Two Radar Jammers (Unknown Type)





The next designs are the actual Cruiser-Destroyer Proposals I could gather:
Friedman sources to Notebook 1030/2 and 673/2 (Whoever's those Workbooks belongs to....) and 337/15 which is W.G. John's Workbook No.15

Cruiser-Destroyer Design I - Baseline Design I - 1950 March (By Friedman's description)
Dimensions: 132,28 (pp) x 137,16 (wl) x 15,25 x 4,57m (Previously 14,32m wide) (From WG John Workbook)
Displacement: 4.709tons (Fully Loaded) (From WG John Workbook)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns All on the main deck one between the engine rooms (As of Friedman)
2x1 3"/50 RF Mark 22 Guns (Friedman mentions this, yet there is no evidence in W.G. John's Workbook, the other workbooks might mentions it)
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 21" Torpedo Launchers (Trainable Quad Launchers) (From WG John Workbook)(Friedman Describes that the ship is too wide for trainable and stated DTASW described 4 tubes on each broadside for a total of 8 tubes)
Ruler Anti-Torpedo Weapon

Sensor suite:
3x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns
Either 2x Directors (Likely MRS.3) for the 3" guns or they would had their own GUNAR
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar
Type 932 Splash-spotting Radar
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 160,170,175,176,177 Sonars


Cruiser-Destroyer Design II - Baseline Design II - 1950 March (By Friedman's description)
Dimensions: 132,28 (pp) x 137,16 (wl) x 15,25 x 4,57m (Previously 14,32m wide) (From WG John Workbook)
Displacement: 4.764tons (Fully Loaded) (From WG John Workbook)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns two on the main deck one is superfiring likely forward (As of Friedman)
2x1 3"/50 RF Mark 22 Guns (Friedman mentions this, yet there is no evidence in W.G. John's Workbook, the other workbooks might mentions it)
1x3 Limbo ASW
8x2 21" Fixed Torpedo Launchers (Friedman Describes that 4 sets of twins forward and aft to maintain a 8 torpedo broadside so 4 twins per side and four corner arrangement)
Ruler Anti-Torpedo Weapon

Sensor suite:
3x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns
Either 2x Directors (Likely MRS.3) for the 3" guns or they would had their own GUNAR
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar
Type 932 Splash-spotting Radar
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
2x Type 984 3D Air-Search Radars
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 160,170,175,176,177 Sonars


Cruiser-Destroyer Design III - Baseline Design III - 1950 March (By Friedman's description)
Dimensions: 132,28 (pp) x 137,16 (wl) x 15,25 x 4,57m (Previously 14,32m wide) (From WG John Workbook)
Displacement: 4.768tons (Fully Loaded) (From WG John Workbook)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns in super and super-super firign position forward (As of Friedman)
3x1 3"/50 RF Mark 22 Guns (Friedman mentions that a 3rd one was put on the centreline, arrangement unknwon either superfirign forward or put aft on a the main deck or 1st deck)
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 Trainable or 8x2 Fixed 21" Torpedo Launchers (Friedman does not state the Torpedo armament of this proposal)
Ruler Anti-Torpedo Weapon

Sensor suite:
3x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns
Either 3x Directors (Likely MRS.3) for the 3" guns or they would had their own GUNAR
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar
Type 932 Splash-spotting Radar
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
2x Type 984 3D Air-Search Radars
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 160,170,175,176,177 Sonars






The next design is from W.G John's Workbook data table (Posted Above)
Cruiser-Destroyer Design IV - 1950 November
Dimensions: Unknown, Likely 141,73 (wl) x 14,63m
Displacement: Unknown Around 4.800tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns
2x6 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 in Sextuple Mark 12 Mounting (Forum User A Tentative Fleet Plan's remark)
Maybe 1x3 Limbo ASW
Either 12x1 Fixed Tubes (6 tubes for each beam) or 1 set of 8 tubes? (Difficult to read the handwriting)
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4" or 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing (Later Friedman describes a stripped down mounting so likely a simple open mounting on a pivot)

Sensor suite:
3x MRS.3 Directors for the main guns
2x MRS (Unknown type maybe MRS.1 or MRS.2 or CRBFD) for the 40mm Guns
Type 984 3D Air-Search Radar
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Likely but not stated:
Type 277Q Surface-Search Radar
Type 932 Splash-spotting Radar
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 160,170,175,176,177 Sonars


Following is the 1952 March Proposal from W.G John's Workbook:
Cruiser-Destroyer Design V - 1952 March
Dimensions: Unknown
Displacement: Unknown
Engines: Unknown, Likely 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: Unknown, Likely 30,5knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns
2x2 3"/70 QF Mark N1 Guns (WG John only states two 3" twin mountings, but the weight allocated for them of 80+12tons implies the twin 3"/70 mounting, which weighted 37tons)
1x3 Limbo ASW
Likely 2x4 21" Torpedo Launchers (Weight allocation shows 53tons for them)
Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon (Unknown number and type, 12tons were allocated for it)
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing (as written above, very likely a simple open mounting on a pivot)

Sensor suite:
Likely
5x MRS.3 Directors for the 5" and 3" guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Likely but not stated:
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars




The next 6 proposals are again from W.G. John's Workbook noted as designs A trough F (A-D have the same hull, E and F were longer) and here the new 5"/54 QF Mark N2 gun was introduced:

Cruiser-Destroyer Design VI - 1952 April - Design A
Dimensions: 132,59 (wl) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.770tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 34knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 (W.G John does not mention any light AA, Friedman mentions two twin L70 guns for the August design so this would likely apply here as well)
Other weapons not stated but likely:
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 or 12-16x1 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
Likely
3x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars

Cruiser-Destroyer Design VII - 1952 April - Design B
Dimensions: 132,59 (wl) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.776tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 34knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
3x1 5"/56 QF Mark N2 Guns
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 (W.G John does not mention any light AA, Friedman mentions two twin L70 guns for the August design so this would likely apply here as well)
Other weapons not stated but likely:
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 or 12-16x1 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
Likely
3x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars

Cruiser-Destroyer Design VIII - 1952 April - Design C
Dimensions: 132,59 (wl) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.780tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 34knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
2x2 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 (W.G John does not mention any light AA, Friedman mentions two twin L70 guns for the August design so this would likely apply here as well)
Other weapons not stated but likely:
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 or 12-16x1 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
Likely
2x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars

Cruiser-Destroyer Design IX - 1952 April - Design D
Dimensions: 132,59 (wl) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.800tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 34knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
2x2 5"/56 QF Mark N2 Guns
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 (W.G John does not mention any light AA, Friedman mentions two twin L70 guns for the August design so this would likely apply here as well)
Other weapons not stated but likely:
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 or 12-16x1 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
Likely
2x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars

Cruiser-Destroyer Design X - 1952 April - Design E
Dimensions: 137,16 (wl) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.940tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 34knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
3x2 5"/62 QF Mark N1 Guns
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 (W.G John does not mention any light AA, Friedman mentions two twin L70 guns for the August design so this would likely apply here as well)
Other weapons not stated but likely:
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 or 12-16x1 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
Likely
3x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars

Cruiser-Destroyer Design XI - 1952 April - Design F
Dimensions: 137,16 (wl) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.940tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp Yarrow YE.47A Steam Turbines, 2 shafts
Speed: 34knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
3x2 5"/54 QF Mark N2 Guns
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48 (W.G John does not mention any light AA, Friedman mentions two twin L70 guns for the August design so this would likely apply here as well)
Other weapons not stated but likely:
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 or 12-16x1 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
Likely
3x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 992 Target Indication/Surface Search Radar
Type 170,172 Sonars




Next is the 1952 August Proposal:

Cruiser-Destroyer Design XII - 1952 August
Dimensions: 132,59 (wl) x 137,16 (oa) x 15,24m
Displacement: 4.750tons Reduced from 4.770tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp
Either YEAD - Yarrow-English Electric Advanced Design, Y101 or Y102 Steam Turbines, or Gas Turbines 2 shafts
Speed: 33,75knots (63km/h)
Armaments:
2x2 5"/62 QF Mark N1 or 5"/54 QF Mark N2 Guns (Not stated which 5" gun in W.G John's Workbook)
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 4,5" Gun for Starshell firing

Sensor suite:
2x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
Type 162,170,174 Sonars
Not stated but Likely:
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar














Not likely a new design just a dedicated page for the above design dated 1953 January:



And the last Proposal, Design Study 25 from 1953 April:
Cruiser-Destroyer Design XIII - Design Study 25 - 1953 April
Dimensions: Unknown
Displacement: 4.750tons (Fully Loaded)
Engines: 60.000shp
Either YEAD - Yarrow-English Electric Advanced Design, Y101 or Y102 Steam Turbines, or Gas Turbines 2 shafts
Speed: 30knots (56km/h)
Armaments:
2x2 5"/62 QF Mark N1 or 5"/54 QF Mark N2 Guns (Not stated which 5" gun)
2x2 40mm/70 Bofors m/48
1x3 Limbo ASW
2x4 21" Torpedo Tubes
4x3 Camrose Anti-Torpedo Weapon
1x1 5" Rocket Flare Launcher

Sensor suite:
2x MRS.3 Directors for the 5"guns
2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns
1x YE Beacon
Type 974 Surface-Search Radar
Type 982 and 983 Fighter Direction Radars
Type 960 Air-Search Radar
Type 162,170,174 Sonars

 

[JFC Fuller]

2x SRS.1 (Modified CRBFD?) for the 40mm Guns

This is a typo/miss-read for SGS.1, Small-ship Gunnery System 1. Peter Marland's Warship 2014 article has a picture of, what looks like a mock-up, of it showing a two-man mounting with a radar. Friedman gives it a weight of 6 tons.

The twin 5" twin mounting on the August 1952 study is almost certainly the 5"/54 N2. The studies from April of 1952 look like they supported the decision to abandon the N1 gun (because it was impossible to get three single N1 mounts on a ship within the displacement limit for the cruiser-destroyer). The go-ahead for the N2 was given in July 1952.

The 5"/70 N1 prototypes got relatively far before cancellation, proof barrels were built, major forgings delivered and steel cartridge cases produced. I have found no evidence that the N2 got to the hardware stage.

 

[Tzoli]

This is a typo/miss-read for SGS.1, Small-ship Gunnery System 1. Peter Marland's Warship 2014 article has a picture of, what looks like a mock-up, of it showing a two-man mounting with a radar. Friedman gives it a weight of 6 tons.

Weren't there an SRS System too when the LRS/MRS designation introduced?

AS for the Warship article, this one?

 

[JFC Fuller]

Weren't there an SRS System too when the LRS/MRS designation introduced?

As for the Warship article, this one?

Yes, the top image is SGS.1. I am not aware of SRS having ever been used, there was a CRS.1 though. The RN used, albeit not with any consistency, Close Range, Medium Range and Long Range to describe radar and gun systems from the late-war to the mid-1950s. For instance, CRBF was obviously Close Range Blind Fire, DACR was Direct Acting Close Range (Direct Acting meant contact, rather than proximity, fuzing) and I have seen CR/MR (Close Range/Medium Range) used for the 3"/70. However, to confuse matters, the 5 inch project should have had LR somewhere in it's terminology but was instead referred to as MCDP (Medium Calibre Dual Purpose) which was a generic term sometimes applied to other weapons, real (e.g. the 4.5" Mk.6) and hypothetical (e.g. in very early staff requirements).

Similarly, 'Small Ships' was a term that used to describe frigates and sloops and was applied to various radar, director and other systems all the way through to the late 1950s, e.g. the SSAW, Small Ship Air Warning radar that became Type 965.

 

[XRNWEO]

CRS1 morphed into MRS1 and MRS2. A prototype director shell was build by Barr & Stroud, but, despite a lot of digging, I haven't found a drawing or illustration of what it would look like. There are fragmentary records at TNA Kew, and it was slated to have a larger version of the 262 radar. I believe it died well before the Cruiser Destroyer design process. DACR was a gun mounting with no organic fire control. If fielded, it would have used a cut down MRS3. Regards - Peter Marland