The F-35 No Holds Barred topic

As alteration to an old and often quoted statement : "Nobody has the intention of killing this thread !"

As long, as it is used within the limits of reasonable manners, it can go on, until the first squadrons
will fly their worn out F-35s to the desert boneyard and exchange them for ...well, who knows ? ;)
 
I think it is quiet as the Singapore Airshow means the 'Bill baiting' is on hold.
 
Ah "most expensive weapon evah". Do we even need to go to the link to know how the article reads, who it quotes, and what it's agenda is? I think not. Funny thing is, if one were to think about things logically, and try to figure out what kind of system would or should be "the most expensive weapon system ever" it would make perfect sense.
 
sferrin said:
Ah "most expensive weapon evah". Do we even need to go to the link to know how the article reads, who it quotes, and what it's agenda is? I think not. Funny thing is, if one were to think about things logically, and try to figure out what kind of system would or should be "the most expensive weapon system ever" it would make perfect sense.
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Of course they will do a cost comparison of the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corp developing three separate aircraft right? ::)

60 Minutes,pro-disarmament, pro nuclear freeze anti- B-2, B-1, ALCM, GLCM, Pershing II, Neutron Bomb, MX, SICBM, advanced nuke warheads, the RRW, the RNEP and every other weapon system many of which are now best in the world.
 
Posting a link to the 60 Minutes preview is still on topic for "The F-35 No Holds Barred" discussion. When the full video, or a transcript, is available, I will post that as well. I would have posted this to the F-35 news only topic, but I imagine there would be members here who would have objected to that.
 
Triton said:
Posting a link to the 60 Minutes preview is still on topic for "The F-35 No Holds Barred" discussion. When the full video, or a transcript, is available, I will post that as well. I would have posted this to the F-35 news only topic, but I imagine there would be members here who would have objected to that.
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Same reason I put the Goure column here as well.
 
CBS is a mainstream, big audience medium reporting on the F-35. That should be enough to attract attention.
 
Arjen said:
CBS is a mainstream, big audience medium reporting on the F-35. That should be enough to attract attention.
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Yeah, and we all know how the media likes a good opportunity to distort, exaggerate, and misrepresent if it'll get eyeballs.
 
Arjen said:
You mean they'll be quoting Loren Thompson?
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You really thing 60 Minutes in objective? Just watch how they lead and distort to a pre-determined conclusion. They are all lefty journalists who think any defense spending is a waste.
 
60 Minutes has had it's share of, shall we say dubious, reporting shows.

In December 1980, 60 Minutes reported that the small army-style "CJ" Jeep was dangerously apt to roll over--not only in emergencies but "even in routine road circumstances at relatively low speeds." A Jeep is shown crashing. "We'll get to precisely what the conditions were that made that single-car accident happen in a moment," promises Morley Safer.

The footage, it seems, is of tests run by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and was produced in collaboration with a CBS film crew. It shows Jeeps going through what appear from a distance to be standard maneuvers. Safer describes the first. "It is something called a J-turn: a fairly gentle right-hand turn that a driver might make if he was going into a parking lot." The Jeep flips over. Safer concedes that "it does not happen every time," and a good thing too, since if it did the nation's parking lots would be cluttered with overturned Jeeps spinning their wheels helplessly like so many ladybugs.


The camera then shows a second test run, "an evasive maneuver, as if the driver is trying to avoid something on the road." An unwanted object is shown obstructing a roadway, lending a you-are-there touch. "The driver would pull out of his lane to the left, go around the obstacle, then pull back to the right into his lane," explains Safer. The Jeep flips over again. Dummy occupants, outfitted in plaid shirts and farmer caps, tumble out to their doom.

Now by this point even trusting viewers might have felt a gnawing canker of doubt. Jeeps may be awkward, hard-to-control vehicles, but do they really do that? After all, skillful stunt drivers can tip over many sorts of vehicles on purpose. Chrysler/AMC, which makes the Jeep, sends out a tape in which this trick is performed on various stock cars and trucks, including a Toyota Corolla, a Ford Bronco, and a Datsun 4 x 4 pickup.
Tantalizingly, Safer seems to share or at least foresee these same doubts. He chats with two guests from the Insurance Institute. "I'm trying to think of some of the things that AMC would accuse you of doing if they were here watching these tests along with us. For example, putting the vehicle through the sort of turns and the sort of stresses that it just would never be put through in normal real-world driving on the road." The guests are reassuring, if that is the right word: yes, the test conditions "do occur in the real world," at least "in panic situations." AMC, for its part, is quoted as saying it suspects the tests of being "contrived to make the Jeep turn over." But the detail stops there.

Too bad. Viewers might have profited by knowing, for example, that testers had to put the Jeeps through 435 runs to get 8 rollovers. A single vehicle was put through 201 runs and accounted for 4 of the rollovers. Make a car skid repeatedly, Chrysler says, and you predictably degrade tire tread and other key safety margins.
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Much more at the jump
http://www.walterolson.com/articles/crashtests.html
 
CBS and 60 minutes is usually fairly objective with their reporting. You can find bad reporting with any news network.
 
We have to hold the 'objective media' to much, much highly standards then 'usually, fairly objective' they have to be 100% objective period.

I can forgive errors and mistakes becasue we are all human but not slanted misinformation for agenda driven purposes.
 
Arjen said:
You mean they'll be quoting Loren Thompson?
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So are they going to interview the people who would actually know what's going on? You know, the engineers. Or will they be interviewing a bunch of talking heads with an axe to grind? (Wheeler, Sweetman, POGO, Sprey, etc.). I'm sure you already know the answer.
 
I only care if they interview the spokesman of WAND. Womens Action for New Directions should have at least equal representation with POGO.
 
RadicalDisco said:
CBS and 60 minutes is usually fairly objective with their reporting. You can find bad reporting with any news network.
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See post above yours. As I recall they're also the ones who "broke" the story about Bradley fighting vehicles using rocket fuel for armor.
 
sferrin said:
RadicalDisco said:
CBS and 60 minutes is usually fairly objective with their reporting. You can find bad reporting with any news network.
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See post above yours. As I recall they're also the ones who "broke" the story about Bradley fighting vehicles using rocket fuel for armor.
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You can find instances of bad reporting from any news network. From my experience CBS has overall been better than most others. Better than, say, Fox or MSNBC.
 
RadicalDisco said:
sferrin said:
RadicalDisco said:
CBS and 60 minutes is usually fairly objective with their reporting. You can find bad reporting with any news network.
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See post above yours. As I recall they're also the ones who "broke" the story about Bradley fighting vehicles using rocket fuel for armor.
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You can find instances of bad reporting from any news network. From my experience CBS has overall been better than most others. Better than, say, Fox or MSNBC.
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CBS arguable tried to derail the 2004 presidential election with those phony Bush National Guard documents from 1972 or so written in a font and typeset not available until the 1990's. :eek:

That was a disgrace and discredited them in my eyes forever!
 
Why on earth did somebody insist on doing a 50 year total program cost estimate? Has this been done for any other aircraft? All it seems to do is create people shouting about the "TRILLION DOLLAR WEAPON SYSTEM!!!"

If we were doing two or three different fighter programs they'd be whining about inefficiency and unnecessary duplication of costs etc. When we do it all under one program they do the "JET THAT ATE THE PENTAGON!!!" thing.

I have my own disappointments with the F-35 program and can certainly understand some of the frustration with Lockheed Martin, but it's just the same old story with the media.
 
bobbymike said:
RadicalDisco said:
sferrin said:
RadicalDisco said:
CBS and 60 minutes is usually fairly objective with their reporting. You can find bad reporting with any news network.
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See post above yours. As I recall they're also the ones who "broke" the story about Bradley fighting vehicles using rocket fuel for armor.
Click to expand...

You can find instances of bad reporting from any news network. From my experience CBS has overall been better than most others. Better than, say, Fox or MSNBC.
Click to expand...

CBS arguable tried to derail the 2004 presidential election with those phony Bush National Guard documents from 1972 or so written in a font and typeset not available until the 1990's. :eek:

That was a disgrace and discredited them in my eyes forever!
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Okay, so which news network do you think is credible then?
 
Triton said:
I take it that sferrin, SpudmanWP, and bobbymike have chosen to reject the 60 Minutes report sight unseen.
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I take it you've chosen to swallow it hook, line, and sinker, sight unseen. Tell you what, if they have actual engineers -who work on the program- on the show I'll concede. But I'm betting it'll be chiefly talking heads far removed from the front line with an axe to grind. Want to take that bet?
 
Published on Feb 14, 2014

60 Minutes gets an inside look at what makes the $400 billion F-35 joint strike fighter the most expensive weapons system in history. Watch David Martin's report on Sunday, Feb. 16 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

http://youtu.be/FkSDRDg8y8Q
 
This is likely far more informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wSvS5Z-gsI
 
The comment 'straw man' was aimed exclusively at you. You being wilfully stupid isn't helping your case ;)
 
Arjen said:
The comment 'straw man' was aimed exclusively at you. You being wilfully stupid isn't helping your case ;)
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Your true colors are showing. (Not that they were a secret.)
 
Triton said:
I take it that sferrin, SpudmanWP, and bobbymike have chosen to reject the 60 Minutes report sight unseen.
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Not at all just pointing out to SP members NOT to consider 60 Minutes a neutral source. Among many people the TV program still is considered objective, IT IS NOT!
 
Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.
 
Arjen said:
Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.
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Did you watch the video I posted?
 
Arjen said:
Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.
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No need to interpret or guess at my motivations. 60 Minutes is not to be considered an objective media program and I wanted SP members to know that.

My 'curiosity' is irrelevant to that point.
 
sferrin said:
Arjen said:
Don't you have any curiosity at all in what 60 Minutes is going to say? The preview didn't seem to veer to the sensationalist.
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Did you watch the video I posted?
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Yes. It says nowt about the contents of 60 Minutes.
 
Published on Feb 16, 2014

David Martin speaks with Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's chief weapons buyer, about the problem-plagued F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program. What happened and is the program back on track?

http://youtu.be/yp0pCqbiMLg
 
Published on Feb 16, 2014

Lockheed Martin's chief F-35 test pilot Alan Norman takes 60 Minutes into the cockpit of an F-35 for a first-hand look.

http://youtu.be/-ye9auxJPVg
 
Triton said:
Published on Feb 16, 2014

David Martin speaks with Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's chief weapons buyer, about the problem-plagued F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program. What happened and is the program back on track?

http://youtu.be/yp0pCqbiMLg
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The interviewer seems to have color-coordinated his shirt with his hair. "We had some problems so we made some changes." *YAWN* How is this different than any other defense program? (Queue, "ZOMG most expensive evah!")
 
Having watched the actual broadcast, I'm glad that they at least didn't interview anyone from POGO or APA. It was just Lt. Gen Bogdan, Al Norman, Frank Kendall, and this USMC general.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/f-35-joint-strike-fighter-60-minutes/
 

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