The APKWS is now capable of shooting down drones

Dilandu said:
It's still quite useful & cheap addition; basically as long as target required less than 8 AGR-20, it's more mass-efficient than a "proper" AAM.
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And IIRC the total AGR-20 is less than 125k, it's cheaper to fire 8x AGR-20s as more or less any modern cruise missile than the target missile costs!
 
Scott Kenny said:
And IIRC the total AGR-20 is less than 125k, it's cheaper to fire 8x AGR-20s as more or less any modern cruise missile than the target missile costs!
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It's about $20k for the basic version and $40k with IIR. If you mounted 1 or 2 on drones and started downing Ka-52s that would be real expensive for the other guy.
 
Forest Green said:
It's about $20k for the basic version and $40k with IIR. If you mounted 1 or 2 on drones and started downing Ka-52s that would be real expensive for the other guy.
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Even at $40K it's still significantly cheaper than a Sidewinder, as for a Hokum B, yeah, blowing one of those out of the sky would be highly cost effective.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
www.navalnews.com

BAE Systems Unveils New APKWS Precision Guided Rocket At Sea Air Space 2025 - Naval News

The new dual-mode APKWS guidance kit will allow for faster fire rates and a pseudo fire-and-forget capability for counter-UAS
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

Newest APKWS model based on FALCO. Dual-mode SAL/IIR with better IR sensor better suited for C-UAS (and probably other things, too)
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www.twz.com

Infrared Seeker For APKWS Guided 70mm Rockets Unveiled

Adding infrared guidance to APKWS II rockets allows for multiple targets to be engaged more rapidly, especially in the air-to-air role.
www.twz.com www.twz.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902332718215577795
View: https://x.com/CENTCOM/status/1902332718215577795
 
Josh_TN said:
APKWS is not intended for high performance cruise missiles; those are sufficiently expensive and sophisticated enough to warrant a real SAM.
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What do you mean by "high performance cruise missiles"? They all fly in a straight line at a subsonic speed.
 
Wotan said:
What do you mean by "high performance cruise missiles"? They all fly in a straight line at a subsonic speed.
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There’s a big difference in speed between a moped UAV and a turbofan missile. APKWS is likely not very capable against the latter except in a well timed head on engagement or a very close rear one.
 
Josh_TN said:
There’s a big difference in speed between a moped UAV and a turbofan missile. APKWS is likely not very capable against the latter except in a well timed head on engagement or a very close rear one.
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Fighter pilots are used to achieving a very close rear engagement.
 
GTX said:
Errr..:

  • Air-sol moyenne portée (ASMP)
  • BrahMos
  • Novator Kalibr
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Kalibr is subsonic (0.8 Mach speed) and only makes a supersonic sprint just before hitting the target, in some antiship variants.
www.newsweek.com

Russia's Kalibr missile vs. US Tomahawk: Which comes out on top?

Find out which long-range cruise missile comes out on top for range, speed, accuracy and performance.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

On the other side, supersonic ramjet powered cruise missiles are anyway too fast to be intercepted by fighters (which at low altitude can fly with around max. 1.2 Mach) so the use of a guided apkws rocket is anyway not posible.

So, if a fighter has the speed to intercept the cruise missile it can down it. If the cruise missile is too fast, then the APKWS rocket cannot be bringed in close enough range.
 
Wotan said:
Kalibr is subsonic (0.8 Mach speed) and only makes a supersonic sprint just before hitting the target, in some antiship variants.
www.newsweek.com

Russia's Kalibr missile vs. US Tomahawk: Which comes out on top?

Find out which long-range cruise missile comes out on top for range, speed, accuracy and performance.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

On the other side, supersonic ramjet powered cruise missiles are anyway too fast to be intercepted by fighters (which at low altitude can fly with around max. 1.2 Mach) so the use of a guided apkws rocket is anyway not posible.
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Regardless, my point was still to correct your ascertain that "all [cruise missiles] fly in a straight line at a subsonic speed"
 
I know that for ground-launch the APKWS uses a four-round box-type launcher but what about a single-tube MANPADS-style launcher? Especially if it included a laser-designator and an eject-motor so the user doesn't have to wear protective anti powder-burn gear?
 
Josh_TN said:
Hardly optimal for multiple targets though.
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Depends on how widely spread they are.

If they're under ~100m apart laterally and not close to the CM targets, then APKWS will do the job.



NMaude said:
I know that for ground-launch the APKWS uses a four-round box-type launcher but what about a single-tube MANPADS-style launcher? Especially if it included a laser-designator and an eject-motor so the user doesn't have to wear protective anti powder-burn gear?
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I dunno, you'd have to redesign the whole system to work around an eject motor.
 
GTX said:
Regardless, my point was still to correct your ascertain that "all [cruise missiles] fly in a straight line at a subsonic speed"
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Well, cruise missiles used in real conflicts up to and including the Ukraine one functioning this way.

The real combat use of supersonic cruise missiles in any significant number is yet to be seen. I presume that costs and penalties associated with the sustained supersonic speed will keep these missiles more of a specialty weapon than the norm also in the near future.
 
Wotan said:
Well, cruise missiles used in real conflicts up to and including the Ukraine one functioning this way.

The real combat use of supersonic cruise missiles in any significant number is yet to be seen. I presume that costs and penalties associated with the sustained supersonic speed will keep these missiles more of a specialty weapon than the norm also in the near future.
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…and APKWS is a bad fit for most of them. Engaging a machine 0.8 target is going to require the fighter to achieve a very favorable engagement geometry. But that is not what this system is designed to engage - a high subsonic speed cruise missile is worth a sidewinder or end of life AIM-120. The slow sahed drone types can rather easily be engaged by this system, and those can be as inexpensive as the low $10,000s.
 
Josh_TN said:
…and APKWS is a bad fit for most of them. Engaging a machine 0.8 target is going to require the fighter to achieve a very favorable engagement geometry.
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Compare it with the gun, not with sidewinders. WVR takes full rail.

APKWS, even now, provide wastly better pK, engagement range and safety. It allows jet to close as many engagement loops as fuel will get you.

if APKWS gets proper ir/laser seeker instead of interferometers, it's a fully capable SRAAM at this point, easily providing all aspect engagement.
 
A newly surfaced image reveals a U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle equipped with a substantial arsenal of laser-guided rockets. The jet carries at least three seven-shot 70mm rocket pods under its left wing, potentially totaling 42 rockets when mirrored on the right wing. This configuration allows for a significant number of engagements against aerial threats like drones and cruise missiles.

The Air Force has already demonstrated the effectiveness of the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II (APKWS II) on F-16s in air-to-air combat, and integrating it into the F-15E is a natural progression. The APKWS II system consists of a laser-guidance module added to standard 70mm rockets, making them highly precise. The aircraft tested at Eglin Air Force Base carried additional equipment, including an AIM-120 AMRAAM and targeting pods.

The move to equip F-15Es with APKWS II rockets aims to enhance the jet’s magazine depth and engagement versatility. In combat, this system has proven effective against drones and even subsonic cruise missiles. Compared to traditional air-to-air missiles, APKWS II rockets are significantly cheaper, costing around $15,000 to $20,000 per unit compared to AIM-120 missiles priced at over $1 million each.

The Air Force has yet to confirm when the F-15E will operationally deploy APKWS II rockets, but the technology has already demonstrated its effectiveness in air combat scenarios, including countering drone threats in the Middle East. Further developments, including a dual-mode infrared and laser guidance system, could make these rockets even more capable in future engagements.
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Source:
www.twz.com

F-15E Spotted Packing Big Laser-Guided Rocket Arsenal Ideal For Drone Hunting

An F-15E could carry up to 42 Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System rockets, which are now combat-proven anti-air weapons against drones.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
NMaude said:
I know that for ground-launch the APKWS uses a four-round box-type launcher but what about a single-tube MANPADS-style launcher? Especially if it included a laser-designator and an eject-motor so the user doesn't have to wear protective anti powder-burn gear?
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The soviet S-5 57 mm and S-8 80 mm rockets have been seen to be used shoulder fired from improvised rocket launchers.

The 57 mm improvised rocket launcher was called Shaitan (Satan) by the chechens, they salvaged the rockets from downed russian helicopters.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/rj87yl/chechen_shaitan_rocket_launcher_1430x513
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/rj87yl/chechen_shaitan_rocket_launcher_1430x513/


https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/1ilribl/a_chechen_fighter_with_an_improvised_rocket
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/1ilribl/a_chechen_fighter_with_an_improvised_rocket/

An improvised shield Panzerschreck style seems to be sufficient to protect the rocketeer.


The S8 80 mm rocket on the other side seems to generate too much recoil to be safely used. Maybe a tripod would do the trick.
armourersbench.com

Improvised Rocket Launcher – The Armourers Bench

Posts about Improvised Rocket Launcher written by TAB
armourersbench.com armourersbench.com
 
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How to print your own replica of the APKWS, from Sandboxx:


Learn how to make your own full-scale 3D printed replica of America’s newest (and smallest) air-to-air missile, the AGR-20 FALCO, also known as the infrared-guided Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II — which is America’s low-cost, high volume answer to the low-cost kamikaze drones that are becoming increasingly common on today’s battlefield.
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So, one of the Stinger Replacement competitor missiles is using a solid fuel ramjet.

Why am I mentioning this in the APKWS thread?

Because if you can fit a solid fuel ramjet into the Stinger form factor, a 70mm diameter weapon, you can fit a solid fuel ramjet into Hydra rockets. And giving APKWS a solid fuel ramjet would do amazing things to their capabilities.
 
Well it looks like the USAF is adopting the APKWS with a vengeance:


Have you ever seen a fighter jet carrying FIFTY air-to-air missiles? Well, now you have because the U.S. Air Force and BAE Systems are straight up bringing Ace Combat to life thanks to the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System II and America’s favorite Mach 2 ground-pounder, the F-15E Strike Eagle.
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The mind boggles at the idea of an F-15E flying around on anti-drone patrol carry 42 AGR-20A APKWS missiles in addition to its standard AA load out of four AIM-120s and four AIM-9Xs.
 
NMaude said:
The mind boggles at the idea of an F-15E flying around on anti-drone patrol carry 42 AGR-20A APKWS missiles in addition to its standard AA load out of four AIM-120s and four AIM-9Xs.
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And that's honestly probably only limited by how draggy those rocket pods are. I believe that weight wise, you could hang a pair of 19-shot pods on the upper forward CFT pylons (+38 rockets, 80 total), or if the big pods conflict spacewise carry a pair of 7-shot pods (+14 rockets, 56 total).

Macross Missile Massacres here we come!
 
t.me

Cyberspec News

Not everything went to the Middle East. In Odessa, an engine from a Hydra 70 missile, which is equipped with an APKWS kit for shooting down geraniums, flew into a house. Recently, Zelensky complained that the US changed its mind and redirected these kits to the Middle East instead of Ukraine.
t.me t.me
 
Scott Kenny said:
And that's honestly probably only limited by how draggy those rocket pods are. I believe that weight wise, you could hang a pair of 19-shot pods on the upper forward CFT pylons (+38 rockets, 80 total), or if the big pods conflict spacewise carry a pair of 7-shot pods (+14 rockets, 56 total).

Macross Missile Massacres here we come!
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Let`s be realistic. More than two pods with 19 missiles each is overkill. No fighter aircraft will be able to use them all during a tipical drone interception mission. Not enough targets. It will just add drag and shorten patrol time.
 
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Wotan said:
Let`s be realistic. More than two pods with 19 missiles each is overkill. No fighter aircraft will be able to use them all during a tipical drone interception mission. Not enough targets. It will just add drag and shorten patrol time.
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Depends on how typical you think the Jordan River Turkey Shoot is. The F-15s flying CAP for that event used up all 8 missiles and all gun ammo.
 

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