Sweden SAAB Future Combat Air System (FCAS)

flateric

flateric

ACCESS: USAP
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
1 April 2006
Messages
12,285
Reaction score
15,112
https://twitter.com/GripenNews/status/1014787393612926977
 

Attachments

  • DhU_pgwX4AAbVK9.jpg
    DhU_pgwX4AAbVK9.jpg
    351.3 KB · Views: 890
  • DhU-NuOXkAAOR2L.jpg
    DhU-NuOXkAAOR2L.jpg
    128.4 KB · Views: 436
  • DhU-MzeXkAA7Toq.jpg
    DhU-MzeXkAA7Toq.jpg
    516.1 KB · Views: 423
  • DhU-LrUXkAArq7X.jpg
    DhU-LrUXkAArq7X.jpg
    398.6 KB · Views: 421
  • DhU-KlqW0AI5LnW.jpg
    DhU-KlqW0AI5LnW.jpg
    402.9 KB · Views: 408
  • DhU_s4rXUAAeFRi.jpg
    DhU_s4rXUAAeFRi.jpg
    549.3 KB · Views: 388
  • DhU_rzGXkAAfaHk.jpg
    DhU_rzGXkAAfaHk.jpg
    664 KB · Views: 467
  • DhU_qmWW0AA6uH7.jpg
    DhU_qmWW0AA6uH7.jpg
    501.3 KB · Views: 584

Attachments

  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_01.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_01.jpg
    23.7 KB · Views: 478
  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_02.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_02.jpg
    60.6 KB · Views: 420
  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_03.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_03.jpg
    154.9 KB · Views: 383
  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_04.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_04.jpg
    105.4 KB · Views: 351
  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_05.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_05.jpg
    383.6 KB · Views: 369
  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_08.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_08.jpg
    59.5 KB · Views: 382
  • ICAS2022_0570_paper_11.jpg
    ICAS2022_0570_paper_11.jpg
    324.2 KB · Views: 374
TWZ opinion on SAABs loyal wingman study...

"...Extrapolating that, and as we have discussed repeatedly before, one could argue that 4th generation fighters like Gripen could benefit from advanced loyal wingmen drones even more than 5th or 6th generation types. Pairing the two together would breathe entirely new life into the 4th generation fighter and would give them a stealthy, penetrating capability via their loyal wingmen drones, as well as greatly expanded tactical flexibility, increased awareness, and drastically enhanced survivability. One may also be able to argue that with high-end, largely autonomous uncrewed wingmen, more advanced crewed fighters may not be needed for the vast majority of missions.
In other words, SAAB could pair its Gripen E/F with something like the drone seen in the test to give Gripen vastly enhanced capabilities at a lower cost as compared to buying highly advanced, stealthy, manned fighters and training pilots constantly to fly them..."

https://www.twz.com/air/this-is-saabs-concept-for-a-supersonic-stealthy-loyal-wingman-drone
 
I wonder if Swedish requirements could coincide with ROKAF requirements for the 2030s, and if they could actually do something together. Both have expertise designing and producing 4.5th gen fighters, have domestic industrial bases, have cooperated in defence before, have negotiated for joint development of KF-X in the past (and Sweden assisted subsystem development), both are very much developed economies but lacks critical mass/gross economic size to finance next gen fighter development alone but still wants 5+ gen fighter for the near future. Also, both are directly facing its adversary at it's vicinity (for Sweden it's Russian forces in the Baltic/Kaliningrad/St. Petersburg and defence of Finland as NATO ally, whereas for ROK it's DPRK directly above it and Chinese forces just across the Yellow Sea. Very similar operational environments, especially the distance, if you ask me). Korea's also developing the engine for the next gen fighter so that could be very attractive prospect for Sweden as well.

I think Sweden delaying future fighter related decisions to 2030s could actually turn out to something beneficial for both countries. Be it a joint programme based on KF-X block III or a clean sheet KF-XX/whatever they would call it in Sweden, or just a joint development of individual subsystems and adjuncts, I think both countries could work it out. Most importantly, I think it's important to note that all countries capable of developing their own fighter jet are already up to something be it GCAP, NGF, KAAN or AMCA.

Though I wonder if Sweden would try to stick to a light-weight single engined design for 5+ gen fighters like the FS2020. This might be the biggest disagreement if there is to be any serious talks.
 
Maro.Kyo said:
I wonder if Swedish requirements could coincide with ROKAF requirements for the 2030s, and if they could actually do something together.
Click to expand...
That would certainly be my recommendation to the two of them.

Though IIRC the follow on to the KF21 is supposed to be more like F-15 sized and capabilities.

But IIRC Korea is working on an F414-sized 5th gen engine, equivalent to F119 or F135 in supercruise etc.


Maro.Kyo said:
Though I wonder if Sweden would try to stick to a light-weight single engined design for 5+ gen fighters like the FS2020. This might be the biggest disagreement if there is to be any serious talks.
Click to expand...
That's probably going to be a big issue.

What they should publicly aim for is operating costs of about half that of an F-35, however large an aircraft that ends up being. (bigger than a Gripen by at least 25% in gross weight terms, IMO)
 
Why not the F-15EX is officially the Eagle II plus it looks like a sequel to the Draken anyway
 
Saab is pressing forward for FCAS*:

“Never been better Situation”

Peter Nilsson, head of Advanced programs, speaks.

- There has never been a better situation with a trained workforce. We notice that when we talk to others in the industry. They aim to get to where we are, he tells DN.
[...]
A decision on a new combat aircraft system will probably come around 2030, something that Saab believes is too late.
Click to expand...

https://marcusoscarsson.se/saab-det-har-vill-vi-bygga-till-sveriges-forsvar/
f9396aec-57ed-4748-bf21-661eb8a69228.jpeg


In Swedish, but you might want to use an online translator

Image sourced from here

*Sweden only - Not related to the Franco-German-Spanish one.
 
I find it interesting that Saab/Sweden has technically been involved in every European/semi-European next gen combat aircraft project (GCAP-Kaan-FCAS) but has committed to none for varied reasons.

They gotta get their act together, whether that means joining others in their efforts or developing something along the lines of a light fighter alone, à la a stealth Gripen.

Untitled.png

Though I do find their wingman efforts to be commendable and like the design that they're working on.

https://www.twz.com/air/this-is-saabs-concept-for-a-supersonic-stealthy-loyal-wingman-drone
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I honestly love and admire how feisty Sweden continues to punch *way* above their weight class when it comes to all matters of defense. And I write that as someone whose home town Aschaffenburg in the middle of Germany was under Swedish occupation during the Thirty Years' War...
 
snne said:
I find it interesting that Saab/Sweden has technically been involved in every European/semi-European next gen combat aircraft project (GCAP-Kaan-FCAS) but has committed to none for varied reasons.

They gotta get their act together, whether that means joining others in their efforts or developing something along the lines of a light fighter alone, à la a stealth Gripen.
Click to expand...
A Stealth Gripen is called an F35. That's kinda the minimum bay size for a "light fighter": 2x BVRAAMs and 8x SDBs (or 2x ASMs).
 
Scott Kenny said:
A Stealth Gripen is called an F35. That's kinda the minimum bay size for a "light fighter": 2x BVRAAMs and 8x SDBs (or 2x ASMs).
Click to expand...
Well it would be probaly a bit lighter and more optemised. Maybe something like the light fighter from VTOLicious give or take what the engine is.
 
kqcke for you said:
Well it would be probaly a bit lighter and more optemised. Maybe something like the light fighter from VTOLicious give or take what the engine is.
Click to expand...
Maybe VTOLicious design could work, though I'd want a bay large enough to carry both a 2000lb/ASM and 2x BVRAAMs. His existing design isn't quite big enough to do that, needs to widen the bay by 8-10" to make that work.

But seriously, the minimum bay volume for a "light fighter" in the Gripen class is roughly what the F35 has. 2x ASMs and 2x BVRAAMs, or up to 6x BVRAAMs.
 
Scott Kenny said:
But seriously, the minimum bay volume for a "light fighter" in the Gripen class is roughly what the F35 has. 2x ASMs and 2x BVRAAMs, or up to 6x BVRAAMs.
Click to expand...
Up until recently even the J-20 didn't have space for 6xBVRAAMs in its main bays, this is still very unconventional for most LO aircraft and the odd shaped internal space that was reserved for fiting a JDAM inside the F-35 was also very useful for increasing the AA load of the plane.

main-qimg-50f30c4c8e2b6b6a03907face5f62cc0
 

Attachments

  • 1114979738_0_0_1024_768_1920x0_80_0_0_32228debeadd5a9e6586a39ef529dcec.jpg
    1114979738_0_0_1024_768_1920x0_80_0_0_32228debeadd5a9e6586a39ef529dcec.jpg
    203.2 KB · Views: 273
Last edited:
snne said:
Up until recently even the J-20 didn't have space for 6xBVRAAMs in its main bays, this is still very unconventional for most LO aircraft and the odd shaped internal space that was reserved for fiting a JDAM inside the F-35 was also very useful for increasing the AA load of the plane.

main-qimg-50f30c4c8e2b6b6a03907face5f62cc0
Click to expand...
Uhm, F-22 has 2x WVRAAM and 6x BVRAAM, all internal. I have no clue why the J20 wasn't built to equal that.

But fine, about the minimum anyone will accept for a light fighter is 4x BVRAAM.

However, your bays also need to be big enough to hold a 2000lb class bomb or ASM to be useful on the multirole side. Which results in enough space to hold 2x BVRAAMs on the normal rails and 2x more in each ASM volume. That's 4x AMRAAM in the case of VTOLicious' concept (as expanded). Edit: or 2x BVRAAM and 1x ASM for VTOLicious' concept.
 
Last edited:
So maybe the jet and UCAV are the same platform but have a different front.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
kqcke for you said:
So maybe the jet and UCAV are the same platform but have a different front.
Click to expand...
Looks like it, but it's a bit weird, because a Ucav tends to be smaller and with a smaller engine, a jet fighter on the other hand is bigger, with a bigger engine, better electronic suit, bigger weapons bays etc...
 
pedrospe said:
Looks like it, but it's a bit weird, because a Ucav tends to be smaller and with a smaller engine, a jet fighter on the other hand is bigger, with a bigger engine, better electronic suit, bigger weapons bays etc...
Click to expand...
Yeah but Loyal Wingmans like the Airbus design are already as big and in some parts even larger than a gripen. So if there size wont be mutch off from an gripen it could become possible.
 
October 14th 2025: Sweden contracts Saab to build a flying demonstrator for the Future Combat System

The 2.6 billion Swedish krona ($272 million) contract, announced by the Försvarets Materielverk (FMV) defense material administration Oct. 14 covers work on the demonstrator aircraft and initial flights in 2027. The aircraft will be used to test and validate technologies being proposed for a future platform, but FMV does not say whether the aircraft will be crewed or uncrewed. In addition to the demonstrator work, the contract will also fund concept studies and further technology development through to Q3 2026.
[...]
Fredrik Edström, head of the aerospace equipment business area at FMV. “Given the long development cycles in the combat aviation field, it is important that we already build knowledge, test technology, and prepare future paths,” he added.
Click to expand...

https://aviationweek.com/defense/ai...ds-future-combat-aircraft-development-studies
It´s a long time that Saab effort with GKN could be tracked. Glad they made it more real today.
 
14 October 2025: Saab has received an order from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) regarding continued conceptual studies for future fighter systems.
The order value amounts to approximately SEK 2.6 billion.
The contract period is 2025-2027.
The order is an extension and expansion of the original contract signed in March 2024.

https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press...-for-continued-future-fighter-concept-studies
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom