Sukhoi T-75 LTS (CheckMate)

FighterJock said:
They have been trying to get India onboard the Checkmate project, if they succeed that will make India the first foreign buyer for the Checkmate and will encourage other countries that currently use Russian military aircraft to buy the type.
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India are still feeling burned by their 11 year participation in the SU-57 which they said "Does not meet its requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors."
 
WatcherZero said:
FighterJock said:
They have been trying to get India onboard the Checkmate project, if they succeed that will make India the first foreign buyer for the Checkmate and will encourage other countries that currently use Russian military aircraft to buy the type.
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India are still feeling burned by their 11 year participation in the SU-57 which they said "Does not meet its requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors."
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...which was, as far as we know, about not getting anywhere near good TOT, or even access to development.

And it sounds quite plausible: the current Indian fleet doesn't exactly show much stealth, advanced combat avionics, radars, and sensors. And likely won't until well into 2030s.
They've got only limited Rafale ToT, for more money than their whole participation in Felon program.
 
WatcherZero said:
FighterJock said:
They have been trying to get India onboard the Checkmate project, if they succeed that will make India the first foreign buyer for the Checkmate and will encourage other countries that currently use Russian military aircraft to buy the type.
Click to expand...

India are still feeling burned by their 11 year participation in the SU-57 which they said "Does not meet its requirements for stealth, combat avionics, radars and sensors."
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What participation ? They had zero input on Su-57. They where supposed to have participated in FGFA which was supposed to have been a twin seat variant. But that never got of the ground. As the hindu's didn't have the cash for it. And seeing some quite frankly retarded statements from hem..
While the Russian version of the FGFA is all-metal, ours will have wings and empennage (vertical and horizontal stabilisers) made of composite materials,” said S. Subrahmanyan, Managing Director of MiG Complex at HAL.
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It's for the better.
 
TsrJoe said:
Su.57 model from 2015 ... http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/india-and-russia-have-agreed-to-fast.html
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Su-57 is a big aircraft with large internal bays and good kinetics, shame the deal fell through as it could've been the ideal Su-30MKI replacement. I don't think the Felon has high RCS as proclaimed by the West, it may be inferior but with it's payload it's still good enough to threaten the opponent.

What I'm trying to say is, although the AMCA could have a better RCS treatment, it won't be as capable as Su-57 and thus won't be an ideal 1:1 MKI replacement.

My understanding is that it simply may have fallen victim to a clash between different cliques of Indian defence procurement. Although they claim to have demanded a better ToT, the replacement MMRCA tender won't bring anything better to the table than what the Russians brought.
 
snne said:
Su-57 is a big aircraft with large internal bays and good kinetics, shame the deal fell through as it could've been the ideal Su-30MKI replacement.
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MKI doesn't need replacement yet, their procurement run hasn't even finished yet, and their MLU hasn't even started.
It isn't even that long since they started falling out of the first league of Asian combat aircraft - and they're still within the capable group anyway.
snne said:
What I'm trying to say is, although the AMCA could have a better RCS treatment, it won't be as capable as Su-57 and thus won't be an ideal 1:1 MKI replacement.
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AMCA isn't a MKI replacement either.
 
snne said:
I don't think the Felon has high RCS as proclaimed by the West,
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There never really revelation by any "western officials" tho. The speculations so far only based on jumbled Russian news, awfully written articles somewhere which compares F-18E and F-15 and patent information which does not mention the range of frequencies the RCS being measured tho nor how that value were derived.

The best "Western view" so far from real stealth expert was in 2nd edition of "Introduction to RF Stealth" and The author only mention kind of treatments and what could Russian miss from it. He doesnt go as far as speculating values.
 
Multipurpose engine based on izd.30 for Su-75 and "flanker" family:

thanks @Flankerchan and @HEMemarian via twitter
 

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flateric said:
...
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Wow, where does that come from, if we can ask? Looks like a scanned document...

QuadroFX said:
Multipurpose engine based on izd.30 for Su-75 and "flanker" family:

thanks @Flankerchan and @HEMemarian via twitter
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Thank you, posting here the translation.

NTZ = technical reserve?
GTD = gas generator or engine?
 

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Inner wing flaps have increased outwards in size by about 33-50% towards the tail, slightly longer nose cone and funky canopy, cant see much else thats changed.
 
paralay said:
:cool:
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Would be interested to see if you centered the overlay on the wing alignment rather than maintaining nose to engine proportion. I think theres less changes to the wing shape than you would think considering the extra surface area.
 
Probably the keels are now sitting lower, the nose has become lighter, the center of mass and the main landing gear should shift back. Approximately one meter.Or, more likely, the plane has become more stable
 
paralay said:
Probably the keels are now sitting lower, the nose has become lighter, the center of mass and the main landing gear should shift back. Approximately one meter.Or, more likely, the plane has become more stable
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The whole wing is completely revised, now it's almost diamond-shaped, with a cut-out trapezoidal section along the rear edge.
 
I wonder if this relates to an attempt to increase pitch authority (through the enlarged tail h-stabs + wing flap contribution), it should have an impact on RCS and area ruling too. The transition from wing to tail is exotic, to say the least...

Probably the keels are now sitting lower, the nose has become lighter, the center of mass and the main landing gear should shift back. Approximately one meter.Or, more likely, the plane has become more stable
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Why do you think they have changed all that? Keels are atop a structure similar to the old one, probably it ends now less abruptly on the rear end. But re. engine, landing gear, nose etc., I don't see changes.
 
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I think sukhoi knows that there isn't any money right now, so they evolve the design away from an affordable 5th gen to something closer to 6th gen maybe 5.5th given how any program would start much further into the future.
 
donnage99 said:
I think sukhoi knows that there isn't any money right now, so they evolve the design away from an affordable 5th gen to something closer to 6th gen maybe 5.5th given how any program would start much further into the future.
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I don't see any generational change in the new image. Yes, it is "stealthier" - but, (1)standard reservations about eyeing RCS, and (2)it's also now something much more different from the Felon (unless we don't know something and advanced Su-57 developments will borrow from here). Airframe similarities are now largely gone, for example (stabilizers?).
But now it looks more like a change from the original concept to something that is actually flyable. The first flight is supposed to be not that far into the future now, changes are natural and expected.

The idea to build one big constructor from su-57 parts was very elegant. Sukhoi wasn't the first one to try, and apparently, the idea didn't survive its collision with reality all that well.
 
LMFS said:
Re. commonality with Su-57 and for what can be seen, they just changed the flaps...
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Not only that, look under the stabilizers and at the leading edge. Furthermore, toothing around the cockpit and so on.
 
Ainen said:
Not only that, look under the stabilizers and at the leading edge. Furthermore, toothing around the cockpit and so on.
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Sorry I don't see that, maybe you can explain... the leading edge seems the same, keels are the same from what I see, the intakes below them were already different in Su-57 and LTS. Serrated edges around the canopy seems related to the paint only. But let's keep in mind that Su-57 is also being modernized, so some things could change in both planes.

EDIT: thanks Ainen for pointing out the LERX, it is just natural but was not in the first iteration. Still not part of the wing it seems.
 
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Ainen said:
Not only that, look under the stabilizers and at the leading edge. Furthermore, toothing around the cockpit and so on.
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The auxiliary air intakes in the fin roots are now actually the same as on the Su-57 (port-side) instead of a bespoke design, so in that regard commonality has increased. Other than the new inboard flaps, the changes compared to the original concept concern parts which did not have any commonality with the Su-57 in the first place. As paralay's overlay indicates, the wing has simply been shifted aft half a foot or so, likewise the serrations round the canopy and nose are paint only (as LMFS says.)
 
LMFS said:
flateric said:
...
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Wow, where does that come from, if we can ask? Looks like a scanned document...

QuadroFX said:
Multipurpose engine based on izd.30 for Su-75 and "flanker" family:

thanks @Flankerchan and @HEMemarian via twitter
Click to expand...
Thank you, posting here the translation.

NTZ = technical reserve?
GTD = gas generator or engine?
Click to expand...
Научно-технический задел - scientific and technical groundwork
Газотурбинный двигатель - gas turbine engine
 
Regarding the revised inboard flaps, it's worth mentioning that the previous design, while very close, wasn't actually identical to the Su-57 flap either. On the Felon, the inboard edge is cut away to accommodate the stabilator leading edge (much like they are now on the new concept, in fact), whereas the Su-75 had edges parallel to the centreline. I suspect the original part would've been different enough to require new tooling anyway.

With the Su-57 style auxiliary intakes and top mounted body flap actuators, there might even be a (small) net increase in commonality.
 
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Geo said:
Double seater.
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Hmmm, there's a bit more going on than I thought. The fins appear to be canted less than they used to be on the original config, and based on that I have a hunch what may have happened.

I suspect the edge alignment in beam aspect did not give satisfactory RCS with the earlier angle (which was likely shallower than originally used on the Su-57, to provide adequate pitch control/stability). So the cant reverted back to its Su-57 value, but now they faced the challenge of recovering pitch control characteristics without decreasing commonality (which is, after all, the USP here). Result: wing shifts aft slightly, body flaps increase in size, inboard wing flaps (again: similar but not actually common with the Su-57) increase in size?
 
Interesting changes - I couldn't help but notice that with this new configuration, the ruddervators no longer stick out into the airstream in high alpha maneuvers - maybe the controls were change to be more Su-57 style that F-23 style?
Also, the cooling intakes at the bottom of the stabilizer that used to be present in the previous design (as well as the Su-57), seem to be missing now - wonder if anyone knows what equipment are they supposed to cool?
 
On the one hand, there is an auxiliary power plant that works all the time of the flight. on the other - air conditioning, probably
 
I was hoping they would stick to the previous configuration. It looks like everyone is going to make delta wings for their next gen fighters. What would you call this layout, trapezoidal delta? With lerx and twin tails?
 

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