MOSCOW, May 26 - RIA Novosti. The Sukhoi company is developing the first in Russia fifth-generation lightweight multi-role fighter with one engine, a source in the aircraft industry told RIA Novosti.

"When creating the aircraft, it is planned to widely use the groundwork accumulated within the framework of the creation of the Su-57 , including the newest product 30 engine, radio-absorbing coatings, avionics, and a complex of weapons," he said.

Until now, all Russian-made fighters, including the most modern Su-57, have been equipped with two engines.
According to the source, the new aircraft should have a take-off weight of no more than 18 tons, its maximum speed will exceed Mach two, and the thrust-to-weight ratio (the ratio of engine mass and thrust) will be at least one. At the same time, it will differ in reduced radar signature, super-maneuverability and shortened take-off due to the deflected thrust vector of the engine.

"The layout of the fighter will have one under-fuselage multi-mode air intake, as it is implemented on many modern single-engine aircraft," the source added.
He specified that at the stage of creating an experimental vehicle, the Al-31FN engine of series 3 and 4, already tested on foreign fighters, can be used.


reposted from https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...ght-fighter-projects.33577/page-4#post-459542
 
18 tonnes and T/W at least 1. So either this ones(as usual for ads) are given for different scenarios or that rules out Izd. 30. Or Izd.30 is more interesting than was anticipated...
 
Isn't it's one of the first cases, when infromation and images advanced project of modern Russian fighter has "leaked' from official sources?
And photos comes directly from the "top secret" testing facility.
Thise spies are everyware! :cool:
 
From the images I'm thinking it has the 117 in it. Now izd 30 supposedly produces thrust of somewhere between 35 to 38 thousand pounds in reheat. I'm thinking this will eventually carry the izd 30 engine.
 
18 tonnes is likely MTOW not A/A takeoff weight. T/W won't be 1:1 at MTOW.

18 tonnes is F-16 / MiG-29 class.
I assume this is NTOW, even F-16 has a higher MTOW and this aircraft is bigger and with a much more powerful engine. Less than 10 t empty is difficult for a 5G fighter, at least if it has some weapon bays. And it seems to have quite a long fuselage so that may be the case.
 
This prototype will likely have an Al-31F or AL-41F1 engine, for an export focused private venture. Thrust is unlikely to be above 14000kg. Unless you think Izd. 30 is going to be available for export?
 
Maybe they are seeing/identifying what they want to see? It will be interesting to see it finally unveiled without all covers... The gear etc looks a lot more operational than I would guess those on a wooden/glass fiber mock-up would be as others have mentioned... Exciting times in aviation!

It's pretty common with mock-ups to use a set of gear from an existing aircraft. They can be real gear, but attached to a mockup.
 
This prototype will likely have an Al-31F or AL-41F1 engine, for an export focused private venture. Thrust is unlikely to be above 14000kg. Unless you think Izd. 30 is going to be available for export?
With the thrust of the izd. 117S and a empty weight of 10 t it would still be quite ok (same TWR as F-35). But this is a new plane, maybe around 2030 when it can be sold it is ok to export the izd. 30 or at least some monkey version of it. The lack of powerful engines is forcing many nations to create 5G fighters that are twin engine, so Russia has definitely a serious ace up their sleeve with this plane if they provide their more advanced engines, be it izd. 117 (15 tf) or izd. 30.
 
I guess we'll find out soon, but I think you'd want a more mature engine for a single engine design at least for prototype and pre-series.
 
Surely a ventral intake would deny any chance of a ventral bay and therefore reliance on external weapons for the strike role?

I'm still slightly sceptical about the sales potential. Its feeling like a crowded market in some respects (many Western or local rivals) and an empty market (desire but no cash) in others. For those who are US allies there is still the F-16/F-21 as a capable 4.5gen fighter with probably all the bells and whistles most lower tier nations would want. The Gripen is lighter but hasn't done terribly well lately, ironically Rafale seems to have mopped some of the market up with reduced price airframes, which perhaps indicates some nations have ambitions (but not the purse) for larger stuff.
In the Far East the KF-21 seems to be the one to beat and probably the closest competitor to CheckMate, especially if Indonesia does see this through to completion - they would have been a perfect potential buyer for CheckMate. Will Malaysia tip back to Russian or US aircraft?
Looking at recent MiG and Sukhoi sales and even the lower end market (Yak-130) most sales have been to poorer nations who realistically haven't got much cash and the list for CheckMate would roughly be: Belarus, Algeria, Myanmar, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Syria, Serbia, Vietnam (plus maybe places like Peru and Argentina).
Not many of these would be able to afford Su-57 (or indeed most new-build Western fighters even if they could politically get their hands on one) but even MiG and Sukhoi deals have been subsidised. I reckon they might get a production run of 200 aircraft at best based on exports alone and assuming UAC stops selling MiG-29/35 variants.
I would be very surprised if the Russian AF doesn't buy any (assuming its prejudice against single-engine designs has waned in recent years).
 
Light-Fighter.gif
Here is what I thought it would like, I updated the side drawing this morning after seeing the pictures. I really would like to know the intake layout, the front pictures posted in paralay look confusing. So far it looks neat to me!
 
Does it have tailplanes ? Or does it have all moving tail fins like the F-117 and J-20.
 
No, only vertical, so it might be a diamond delta with canted vertical tails.
 
I guess we'll find out soon, but I think you'd want a more mature engine for a single engine design at least for prototype and pre-series.
The good thing with the way Russians are acting is that AL-41F-1 is size compatible with AL-41F-1S, AL-31F and izd. 30. And the thre stream version of the izd. 30 will also be size compatible. So they can test now with maybe the 117 or 117S, which are fully mature, and switch to the izd. 30 for later test phases when the engine has already be cleared for serial production. Looks pretty low risk to me.

Hood said:
Surely a ventral intake would deny any chance of a ventral bay and therefore reliance on external weapons for the strike role?
I don't think so. Actually the plane has a long fuselage and that can be a strong hint to ventral bays placed in front of the engine. Side bays are also ok for A2G ordnance, with a special release mechanism, like in the X-32

I'm still slightly sceptical about the sales potential.
Let's be honest, the biggest threat to market potential is Western pressure. As discussed above, no one is selling a 5G single engine plane which is economical and with no massive strings attached to it. And it is difficult to change that, esentially because there is no readily available engine for it. The F119 is very specific, increasingly outdated and restricted to the F-22, the F135 is very big and will not be sold for anyone to develop a competitor to the F-35. So other nations developing 5G rely on advanced versions of the F414 or RD33 and have to use a twin engine layout. US may be forced to offer the F-35 to an increasing number of nations, maybe. In any case, the gap is there for Sukhoi to exploit it, but of course their design needs to live up to the expectations in terms of performance, range and payload to be a succesful multirole fighter that can constitute the backbone of an airforce and not only a cheap "lo" complement for heavy ones. That is not exactly easy for a "light" fighter, so we still need more information to know to what extent they can succeed. The layout of the weapon bays is going to be critical for that.
 
Last edited:
I guess we'll find out soon, but I think you'd want a more mature engine for a single engine design at least for prototype and pre-series.
The good thing with the way Russians are acting is that AL-41F-1 is size compatible with AL-41F-1S, AL-31F and izd. 30. And the thre stream version of the izd. 30 will also be size compatible. So they can test now with maybe the 117 or 117S, which are fully mature, and switch to the izd. 30 for later test phases when the engine has already be cleared for serial production. Looks pretty low risk to me.
I can see a Russian version adopting Izdeliye 30 engines eventually, after the Su-57.
 
Agree with that kaiserbill. The landing gear looks pretty real.

So did the landing gear on MiG's private venture Skat UCAV (compare to contemporary nEuron mock-ups...), and we all know where that went. I actually believe its development really had progressed quite far short of flightworthy hardware, but the point is that without a customer this project too could fail.

The engine question is certainly interesting, the wild card being a bespoke design (expensive, but think PW1120). Claimed MTOW seems rather light to use the Izd.30, yet it is clearly single-engine and Izd.117 will be getting decidedly long in the tooth by the time it enters service.
 
Trident, whilst I agree, the landing gear is only one indicator.
There are a couple of other indicators in the photo's that lead me to believe it is no simple lightweight fibre glass mockup.

But as always, I may be wrong.
 
Looking at recent MiG and Sukhoi sales and even the lower end market (Yak-130) most sales have been to poorer nations who realistically haven't got much cash...

You can blame CAATSA for part of that, otherwise there would be Su-35s flying in Egypt (might still happen, a dozen have actually been built!) and Indonesia as we speak. Both of which are customers high-profile enough to be courted by Western OEMs as well.

... and the list for CheckMate would roughly be: Belarus, Algeria, Myanmar, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Syria, Serbia, Vietnam (plus maybe places like Peru and Argentina).

Iran and India (& Egypt, again). I know India has ambitions to build their own aircraft in this class, but a look at the LCA project is instructive. So there are a handful of potential customers with decent long-term economic prospects on the list (this is a 2030s contender, after all).
 
Last edited:
The reasoning on the bays in the presence of a ventral intake & single duct could be quite different, we seem to be projecting F-35 rationale onto this aircraft which may be inaccurate. For one, it is debatable whether the F-35 even got this right (i.e. reflects the true needs of potential customers), secondly Checkmate may be deliberately aimed at a different mission. Not everyone has a desire to penetrate a dense IADS with 2x2000lb PGMs and change, perhaps a purely defensive bias with only 4 AAMs internally (for LO against advanced attackers such as the F-35) will suffice.
 
The part that concerns me is that the sharp corners kind of make it look like dummy panelling - it looks like there would be air intake above the chine, which seems weird, and not necessarily what you'd want.

Unlike the F-22 and F-35, the Su-57 retains proper LERXs in addition to the chined forward fuselage, so that could account for the edge under the tarp.
 
Well, on the desk model there does seem to be a LERX joining the chine in the same place as the leading edge of the intake:

Untitled.png

That the crease in the tarp extends above the chine could simply be due to the fabric being pulled taught over the upper nose/windscreen by the outboard apex of the LERX.
 
That the crease in the tarp extends above the chine could simply be due to the fabric being pulled taught over the upper nose/windscreen by the outboard apex of the LERX.
Exactly
I only do engineering so have snipped the sales bit out...

I was thinking about this. A ventral intake could have a decent amount of up-sweep for signature reduction as well as packaging reasons. Potentially this allows for ventral bays aft of the upsweep intake section.

Side intakes need side sweep and a bifurcated joint to bring them together in front of the engine face. This could give room for side bays, but these bays may end up being overall shorter after packaging in everything else.

Potentially, a ventral intake might allow both ventral (AG or Large weapons/pods) and lateral (AAM) closed bays if the fuselage is sized to suit.
Very well put sir... my understanding of that in the attached picture.

The reasoning on the bays in the presence of a ventral intake & single duct could be quite different, we seem to be projecting F-35 rationale onto this aircraft which may be inaccurate. For one, it is debatable whether the F-35 even got this right (i.e. reflects the true needs of potential customers), secondly Checkmate may be deliberately aimed at a different mission. Not everyone has a desire to penetrate a dense IADS with 2x2000lb PGMs and change, perhaps a purely defensive bias with only 4 AAMs internally (for LO against advanced attackers such as the F-35) will suffice.
If you analize that in depth, the requirement demanding side intakes in the F-35 is the STOVL, not the bays. And it was that that forced the bays to the sides of an increasingly big engine, affecting the cross sectional area and wave drag of the plane. A fighter without STOVL requirements and designed to be a high performance supersonic platform needs to be different.

BTW, that last picture above shows a rather big plane indeed. The tails seem to be mounted on thick booms, maybe there are quick bays of Su-57 style too?
 

Attachments

  • LMFS_175.png
    LMFS_175.png
    85.7 KB · Views: 200
According to rumours, it is a full-operational prototype and it is already made its first flight. Can be BS of course.
That just seems ridiculous, PAK-FA was less under the covers than this (if it flew).
 
Trident, whilst I agree, the landing gear is only one indicator.
There are a couple of other indicators in the photo's that lead me to believe it is no simple lightweight fibre glass mockup.

But as always, I may be wrong.
Some man from Zhukovsky says:

It is a mock-up, I saw how it was assembled, lol. There is a balloon so that only the canopy opens.

 
The Landing gear, looks very real to me, the doors, not so much, still interesting to see.

Their appearance is pretty typical for composite doors, compare with the Su-57 or YF-23. If you were thinking of the J-20 (which looks very different with lots of stiffeners), in this case they seem to be high-speed machined - or possibly 3D printed - aluminium.

Returning to the question of intake configuration: if we assume the landing gear is closely representative of the finalized design, the complete absence of a mud guard argues the nose gear is behind the intake aperture. As that would place bifurcated cheek intakes uncharacteristically far forward, this would appear to favour a ventral position...
 
There must be some weight associated with it, looking on the main tire contact to the ground, real or a mockup?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom