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Sukhoi Su-57 / T-50 / PAK FA - flight testing and development Part II

TomcatViP

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The difference, perhaps, is that someone got from a million $ order for a few part to 5 more for an hundred. It's usually where ppl are cutting cost thinking (with no ill-intends other often than being plain stupid) that this will stay under the radar.
 
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flanker

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Who was the pilot? This is predelivery so it might be a factory pilot.
It was factory pilot. Rumor says he was one of the pilots of this incident;


Su-30MK2 test flight prior to hand over, same factory. Not much luck for that dude...
 

bobbymike

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Who was the pilot? This is predelivery so it might be a factory pilot.
It was factory pilot. Rumor says he was one of the pilots of this incident;


Su-30MK2 test flight prior to hand over, same factory. Not much luck for that dude...
Or really lucky depending on one’s perspective
 

tanino_it

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That's too bad.

But these things happen. It would have been a nice image boost for the defense industry especially now that Boeing is really in crisis.

I'm just sorry I can't see if it's true the rumor circulating in the press is that the level of finish in the two (now one) pre series models is really high and very similar to all the best, F35 first.

And make (maybe with the help of Deino, one of the top Chinese aviation experts, AKA J-20) interactive infographics comparing the three planes. :) J-20 vs Su57 (serial) and F-3

Let's wait for the second plane, maybe for April/May.
 

flateric

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Who was the pilot? This is predelivery so it might be a factory pilot.
It was factory pilot. Rumor says he was one of the pilots of this incident;


Su-30MK2 test flight prior to hand over, same factory. Not much luck for that dude...
That's easy to find names of pilots from 2012 crash and to compare them to current list of Sukhoi test pilots on official site...to find out that there are no any match.
 

flanker

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I don't think you are correct here Flateric. First a couple of links, pilots name that was flying Su-57 is Aleksei Gorshkov;


Linking him directly to Su-30MK2 incident;


And confirming it, an article from 2012 with his name;

В состав экипажа входили летчики-испытатели 485-го военного представительства Минобороны РФ: командир воздушного судна подполковник Валерий Кирилин и капитан Алексей Горшков.
Source; https://vpk.name/news/65562_nazvana_prichina_krusheniya_su-30_v_habarovskom_krae.html

They are MOD pilots, not Sukhoi firm test pilots. There isn't a direct overlap between factory test pilots and Sukhoi test pilots anyway is my guess.
 

flateric

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flanker

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excusez-moi? Do you understand a difference between military acceptance pilots and KnAAZ LIK pilots?
I don't really, and don't care to know either to be frank. :p But not sure why the tone anyway. Articles claim that the Su-57 pilot was Aleksei Gorshkov, and old article confirms Aleksei Gorshkov was on the Su-30MK2 flight, while you appear to claim it is not same guy. I couldnt personally care less what structure he is flying under, that was not point.
 

TomcatViP

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amazing how things have accelerated lately. Let's see what pretty cammo pattern they have chosen.
 

LVisingr

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Deino

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Do we know how many '01' - the first serial one - had before its crash or was this even at its maiden flight?

Sorry in case I missed it.
 

panzerfeist1

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I personally don't think there will be any SU-57 export purchases but that also depends if those countries do alot of trade with the U.S. or how effected they are from sanctions.
 

LMFS

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Do we know how many '01' - the first serial one - had before its crash or was this even at its maiden flight?

Sorry in case I missed it.
IIRC it had more than 7 hours flight and 5 landings already, sorry that I cannot find the source now.
 

helmutkohl

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Algeria is probably the first export customer for Su-57, contract for 14 aircraft (also with 14 Su-35 and 14 Su-34) was allegedly inked.

https://www.menadefense.net/non-cla...n-su-57-stealth-fighter-and-the-su-34-bomber/
I wonder why Algeria has all these big item purchases. Do they have a significant security threat? The articles say Morocco and Italy but I don't really see the 3 as being major issues. But I do believe Algeria probably has better resources to buy and support them unlike Nigeria and Myanmar below

Azerbaijan is planning to buy Su-57 in response to Armenia's acquistion of Su-30SM:

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2019/12/23/819437-azerbaidzhan-su-57

Also, in September and October, there were reports of interest in Su-57 from Myanmar and Nigeria, respectively:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...7e-stealth-fighter-another-country-asia-80571
https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/nigeria-interested-in-russian-su-57-fighters-734032.html
Russian industry wins big with Armenia and Azerbaijan!
 

galgot

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Algeria is probably the first export customer for Su-57, contract for 14 aircraft (also with 14 Su-35 and 14 Su-34) was allegedly inked.

https://www.menadefense.net/non-cla...n-su-57-stealth-fighter-and-the-su-34-bomber/
I wonder why Algeria has all these big item purchases. Do they have a significant security threat? The articles say Morocco and Italy but I don't really see the 3 as being major issues. But I do believe Algeria probably has better resources to buy and support them unlike Nigeria and Myanmar below

Azerbaijan is planning to buy Su-57 in response to Armenia's acquistion of Su-30SM:

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2019/12/23/819437-azerbaidzhan-su-57

Also, in September and October, there were reports of interest in Su-57 from Myanmar and Nigeria, respectively:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...7e-stealth-fighter-another-country-asia-80571
https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/nigeria-interested-in-russian-su-57-fighters-734032.html
Russian industry wins big with Armenia and Azerbaijan!
Corruption, Algerian generals running the country loves $$.
Fill their pockets before the country blows in their face.
Same, one needs to check Myanmar and Nigeria govs probity in term of arms procurement (or else) to wonder if they really need a 5th gen fighter (even Russian).
Anyways, I'll believe these buys when I'll see a pict of one flying in these countries colors. There was numerous reports of Su-30/35 interests or sales to different countries that were just PR BS announcements.
 
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TomcatViP

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Honestly, not taking any side, your remark fall short of anything. Buying a handful of the so said only 5th Gen fighter at their reach politically doesn't sound like a corruption story.
Shall we remember to you the Rafale (yet unpaid) saga in Sissi's Egypt snowballing in yet another conflict in lawless blood socked Lybia siding against our Italian allies but with Putin's Russia and against the UN in a conflict at our own doorstep?!

Then I agree that it sounds strange and a bit unexpected and given the country situation, we should use caution discussing this news.

Regarding the Algerian security needs they are embedded in a proxi fight with Morrocco (upgraded F-16).



EDIT:
Read also here (in french):
 
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TomcatViP

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And please if you have a remark to my say (or anyone say) don't edit your post as if you had it covered already...

Uh, isn't that a good resolution you could have for the new year?
 
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dan_inbox

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I wonder why Algeria has all these big item purchases. Do they have a significant security threat? The articles say Morocco and Italy but I don't really see the 3 as being major issues.
Algeria's military dictators are locked into a penis-measuring contest with Morocco, in the same way as Pakistan's are with India.
To them it's more important than feeding or educating their own population. Crying pity on a planetary scale really.

In both cases, their target is cornered into a milder arms race just to keep the bully at bay, even if they otherwise have no interest in attacking the other side.

Those target governments aren't perfect white angels, mind you, but they do have their priorities more sensibly geared towards education and development.
But you don't get to choose who are your neighbours...

(Says a middle Easterner)
 

pegasus

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Yuri Slusar about the Su-57

- Now to military topics. Unfortunately, the Su-57 was recently lost, will this somehow affect the program?

- When testing new technology, incidents are always possible. Su-57 is a new high-tech, sophisticated technique. Before going into operation, the machine undergoes rigorous and numerous tests. These aircraft have already flown several thousand flights. Unfortunately, even with equipment of this level, accidents sometimes occur. Of course, this is unpleasant. But the situation will be analyzed in detail, and we will use the results of the commission of inquiry to make the Su-57 an even more advanced complex.

The pilot is alive, no one was hurt - this is important. Now, tests are underway with the engine of the second stage, according to which there is a separate program. Let me remind you that the aircraft will be able to use a large number of new weapons, some of which have already been created, and some are still being developed. Under the new features, new test challenges will continue.

https://ria.ru/20191230/1562952182.html
 

pegasus

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Let's get back to our main ward, T-50. And here, unfortunately, there is not much good. The whole year passed under the sign of two directions - the delivery of the first production vehicles to the troops and export potential. Let's start with the export. In April, it was announced the approval of all documents authorizing the export of Su-57. Then began the search for customers. Who has not been declared here: India, Turkey, Algeria, the UAE and many others. However, to date, the issue of foreign orders for the Su-57 is still open. Maybe it's for the best.

Regarding the supply of serial cars, everything was also interesting. Constantly sounded more and more contract dates and delivery dates. Summer events, about which are a little lower, put everything in its place.

Yes, they almost forgot. The engine of the second stage "Product 30". Suspicious silence prevailed on this subject. In addition, during the year on spotter photographs, the T-50-2LL aircraft most often appeared with two full-time AL-41F-1 engines (Item 117), suggesting regular improvements to the new engine. And only in the fall, the board was again seen with the installed “product 30”, and in early December there was a message that the flying laboratory completed a total of 16 flights with a new engine.

Well, and, in fact, the main events.

On May 14, 2019, V.V. Putin visited the GLIC in Akhtubinsk. During the arrival of his IL-96 was accompanied by six T-50. On the ground, the president was shown the prototype S-70 (but did not show everyone else what we hoped for), and during a press conference, Putin announced an upcoming contract for 76 Su-57 aircraft until 2028.

Escort of Boron No. 1 by six T-50
At the end of May, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko visited KnAAZ, where he was shown the assembly of the first production Su-57. These frames were shown by the Zvezda TV channel.

The most significant event occurred during the Army-2019 forum, where, finally, a contract was signed for the supply of 76 Su-57 fighters until 2028. Moreover, the delivery of the first cars was expected this year.
Another interesting event happened in August. A Su-57 demonstration was announced at the static exposition of the MAKS-2019 air show. And you didn’t lie! Indeed, a certain Su-57E with an intriguing number 057 on board flaunted on the static of the air show. But we all know that the T-50-7 is a static testing machine, and it is too early for any export samples to appear, so we quickly recognized the freshly painted T-50-KNS board in the presented sample.


In November, during the next visit to KnAAZ by Deputy Minister of Defense Alexei Krivoruchko, the assembly process of the first serial Su-57 with serial number 51001 was again shown. This time the Zvezda TV channel showed the new car entirely and from different angles.


In the fall, another interesting event occurred, which only the initiates knew about until December)) It concerned the second stage of the T-50 weapon test in Syria. Unfortunately, no photos were revealed, no photos, no details. Only a dry statement from the Ministry of Defense: flew, fulfilled everything, returned. Well, at least something.

The funny news came on December 13th. The plans of the Air Force Academy. NOT. Zhukovsky and Yu. A. Gagarin in Voronezh announced the receipt in 2020 of one of the prototypes of the T-50 as a training tool.

And, finally, an event that greatly overshadowed the upcoming holidays and forced us to revise the final report. We knew that at the end of the year the ceremonial adoption of the first production Su-57 was being prepared. They knew that in connection with this a leadership of various levels and the press were sent to Komsomolsk-on-Amur. But the cards went differently. On December 24, 2019, during the acceptance tests, the first production Su-57 was lost. The pilot catapulted, alive and well. According to reports, he fought until the last for the car. We will not comment on rumors and gossip regarding the causes of what happened, there can be any reason, and too little time has passed for clear conclusions. The only good news is that the sad account of the loss of the Su-57 was opened without casualties.
https://vk.com/@pakfa-itogi-2019-goda
 

icyplanetnhc

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Subscription required. AvWeek's article on the rather lethargic test pace of the izd. 30 engine, as well as comments from government officials that the first stage AL-41F1 would be delivered until the "mid-2020s". It's not clear what the difficulties are, but the author seems to suggest problems with materials. Either way, 16 flights in 2 years seem very sluggish.
 
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FighterJock

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Subscription required. AvWeek's article on the rather lethargic test pace of the izd. 30 engine, as well as comments from government officials that the first stage AL-41F1 would be delivered until the "mid-2020s". It's not clear what the difficulties are, but the author seems to suggest problems with materials. Either way, 16 flights in 2 years seem very sluggish.
I am surprised that the AL-41F engine was not designed and built at the same time as the Su-57 prototypes were, thus removing all the problems that the engine designers have now.
 

Grey Havoc

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I am surprised that the AL-41F engine was not designed and built at the same time as the Su-57 prototypes were, thus removing all the problems that the engine designers have now.

Someone's idea of 'efficient resource management', I'd dare say.
 

GARGEAN

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I am surprised that the AL-41F engine was not designed and built at the same time as the Su-57 prototypes were, thus removing all the problems that the engine designers have now.
WDYM? Confused AL-41F1 with Izd. 30?
 

GARGEAN

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Sorry about that GARGEAN, I got confused with the two engines. :oops:
Happens)
As for engine development - it was concluded for quite some years before first flight, but never was a pressing matter (despite some people believing that T-50 is "underpowered" without it), so it was quite a slow pace.
 

stealthflanker

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Plus we're still have no idea yet on the weight figure of Su-57. Thus hard to say whether the design is "underpowered".
 

GARGEAN

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We know that it is at worst comparable but most probably lighter than Su-35 but have more powerful engines. Plus quite positive reviews from test pilots in regards of dynamic characteristics.
 

LMFS

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Plus we're still have no idea yet on the weight figure of Su-57. Thus hard to say whether the design is "underpowered".
Very true. In fact, and taking the most commonly quoted values for the thrust and weight (15 tf, 18,500 kg) with current engines, Su-57's TWR would be better than that of the F-22. So the "underpowered" argument seems baseless at best, propaganda at worst. What should be pointed out regarding the PAK-FA engines but is normally not, is that the fundamental limitation of the AL-31F family is that, being a relatively high-bypass engine, it would be challenged to offer the kind of dry thrust needed for supercruising, considering its original interpretation of cruise speed >1.5M. So the izd. 30 is IMHO not only a newer, higher powered engine, but, more importantly, an engine with a different layout that allows to address the supercruise issue, be it lower bypass ratio or a two-streams VCE or other solution I am not aware of. That would suit the long developmental times involved and the fact of using a risk mitigation measure like izd. 117 to compensate for increased technical risks in the program.

We know that it is at worst comparable but most probably lighter than Su-35 but have more powerful engines. Plus quite positive reviews from test pilots in regards of dynamic characteristics.
Yes, Bogdan reported remarkable acceleration, being himself a Su-35 test pilot that should indicate a noticeable improvement compared to that plane. Some portion of this improvement should come from the engines (would 15 tf vs. 14.5 in the 117S be enough to notice?), maybe some difference from weight contributes too, but I doubt it would be very major. Drag improvement between both designs may be one of the main reasons.
 

FighterJock

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What I would like to know is how much of the Su-57 is made up of composite materials, over the Su -35?
 

FighterJock

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Those pics might give rough idea.
Thanks GARGEAN, so judging on the amount of composite materials used on the Su-57, then it must be lighter in weight terms than the Su-35. So that means that overall it will not be under powered without the Izd.30 engine.
 

GARGEAN

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It's not just not underpowered, it's better powered than by far most jets around. But memes like to stick around)
 
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