• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Sukhoi Su-27 pre-projects, projects & prototypes

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,866
Reaction score
4,796
For what purpose?

The book you need is this:

"Su-27 Fighter: Beginning of Story" by Ildar Bedretdinov et al.

It has full details and drawings of every variant studied up to the T-10 prototype in exhaustive detail. The second volume (not out in English yet) covers the rest of the story.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
Hi,


from the book; Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker,by Yefim Gordon and Peter Davison.


The Sukhoi early T-10 configurations.
 

Attachments

  • T-10   1.JPG
    T-10 1.JPG
    36.7 KB · Views: 1,928
  • T-10   2.JPG
    T-10 2.JPG
    36.9 KB · Views: 1,859

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
From Russian magazine;

Авиация и космонавтика 2013-1
Авиация и космонавтика 2013-2
Авиация и космонавтика 2013-3
 

Attachments

  • T10-2  II.png
    T10-2 II.png
    333.2 KB · Views: 277
  • T10-2.png
    T10-2.png
    328.3 KB · Views: 275
  • T10-1  II.png
    T10-1 II.png
    282.6 KB · Views: 232
  • T-10-1.png
    T-10-1.png
    650.2 KB · Views: 750
  • T10-1   1971.png
    T10-1 1971.png
    282.6 KB · Views: 772
  • T10-1   1970.png
    T10-1 1970.png
    347.7 KB · Views: 788
  • T10   I.png
    T10 I.png
    755.1 KB · Views: 831
  • T10.png
    T10.png
    515 KB · Views: 852

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
And;
 

Attachments

  • T10-3  II.png
    T10-3 II.png
    267.9 KB · Views: 196
  • T10-3  1972.png
    T10-3 1972.png
    370.7 KB · Views: 178
  • T10-3.png
    T10-3.png
    278.7 KB · Views: 199
  • Su-27.png
    Su-27.png
    142.4 KB · Views: 237
  • T10-2  III.png
    T10-2 III.png
    203.5 KB · Views: 219

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
Also from Авиация и космонавтика 2013-4 & Авиация и космонавтика 2013-5.
 

Attachments

  • T10-7  1974.png
    T10-7 1974.png
    92.2 KB · Views: 189
  • T10-7.png
    T10-7.png
    105.1 KB · Views: 171
  • T10-5   II.png
    T10-5 II.png
    87.8 KB · Views: 152
  • T10-5.png
    T10-5.png
    92.6 KB · Views: 172
  • T10-4.png
    T10-4.png
    119 KB · Views: 207
  • T10-6   II.png
    T10-6 II.png
    283.4 KB · Views: 215
  • T10-6-2.png
    T10-6-2.png
    548.8 KB · Views: 212
  • T10-6.png
    T10-6.png
    381.6 KB · Views: 198

sferrin

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,877
Reaction score
2,155
T10-6 looks pretty interesting considering what Sukhoi supposedly thought about the North American FX entry. (That it was better than McDonnell Douglas' F-15.)
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
sferrin said:
T10-6 looks pretty interesting considering what Sukhoi supposedly thought about the North American FX entry. (That it was better than McDonnell Douglas' F-15.)

I agree with you my dear Sferrin.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
From Авиация и космонавтика 2013-6 & Авиация и космонавтика 2013-7 .
 

Attachments

  • Comparison.png
    Comparison.png
    89.4 KB · Views: 174
  • T10-9.png
    T10-9.png
    204.6 KB · Views: 172
  • T10-8.png
    T10-8.png
    197.3 KB · Views: 162
  • T10-12.png
    T10-12.png
    505.9 KB · Views: 174
  • T10-11    II.png
    T10-11 II.png
    464.6 KB · Views: 168
  • T10-11.png
    T10-11.png
    513.7 KB · Views: 158
  • T10-10.png
    T10-10.png
    463.2 KB · Views: 161

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
Also from Авиация и космонавтика 2013-9.
 

Attachments

  • e.png
    e.png
    599 KB · Views: 132
  • d.png
    d.png
    801.6 KB · Views: 146
  • c.png
    c.png
    616.3 KB · Views: 138
  • b.png
    b.png
    568.4 KB · Views: 170
  • a.png
    a.png
    747.8 KB · Views: 182

riggerrob

I really should change my personal text
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
1,355
Reaction score
773
Thanks for all the illustrations of the various studies. Amusing to watch how Sukhoi engineers struggled to keep the aft fuselage shallow between two massive engine nacelles.
 

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
373
sferrin said:
T10-6 looks pretty interesting considering what Sukhoi supposedly thought about the North American FX entry. (That it was better than McDonnell Douglas' F-15.)

Very interesting to hear sferrin!
Could you be so kind as to refer me where I can find/read Sukhoi's comment/analysis re the NAA 'FX' design?
As a fan of the Fairchild-Republic FX design submission, I would liked to have gotten his opinion/take on this design!

Regards
Pioneer
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,866
Reaction score
4,796
There is a brief mention in Oleg Samolovich's memoirs "Next To Sukhoi" (only published in Russian) where he says that, apparently, when McDonnell-Douglas 199 won the F-X contest over "Northrop" (I assume he meant "North American") Sukhoi was heartened as it meant they had a chance to beat the US, implying they felt the other design was better, and it was certainly more simllar to the early Su-27.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
PaulMM (Overscan) said:
There is a brief mention in Oleg Samolovich's memoirs "Next To Sukhoi" (only published in Russian) where he says that, apparently, when McDonnell-Douglas 199 won the F-X contest over "Northrop" (I assume he meant "North American") Sukhoi was heartened as it meant they had a chance to beat the US, implying they felt the other design was better, and it was certainly more simllar to the early Su-27.

Nice Info my dear Paul.
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
hesham said:
In my files,

there is a version to Su-27 at the end of the 1980s,had a vectored thrust nozzle,does
anyone hear about it before ?.

Here is the Aircraft which I meant.

Су-27.История истребителя (1999)
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    206.7 KB · Views: 932
  • 2.png
    2.png
    924.6 KB · Views: 905
  • 3.png
    3.png
    522 KB · Views: 356

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
From the same source;

Су-27.История истребителя (1999)
 

Attachments

  • 6.png
    6.png
    900.5 KB · Views: 137
  • 5.png
    5.png
    764.8 KB · Views: 139
  • 4.png
    4.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 149
  • 3.png
    3.png
    871.4 KB · Views: 173
  • 2.png
    2.png
    887 KB · Views: 169
  • 1.png
    1.png
    659.5 KB · Views: 163

flateric

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9,152
Reaction score
1,295
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13938.0.html
 

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
27,785
Reaction score
4,941
flateric said:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13938.0.html

Thank you my dear Flateric,but no one answered me at first.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,385
What is this? Alternative Su-34 design or Fake?
 

Attachments

  • 34_60.jpg
    34_60.jpg
    214.9 KB · Views: 1,565

paralay

ACCESS: Confidential
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
160
Reaction score
86
Истребитель Су-27. Рождение легенды ч.2
 

Attachments

  • 34.jpg
    34.jpg
    664.8 KB · Views: 1,537

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,385
Carrier version Su-27?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5702.0;attach=61971;image
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5702.0;attach=61973;image

http://www.paralay.com/su33.html
 

Attachments

  • 343.jpg
    343.jpg
    120.4 KB · Views: 462
  • 342.jpg
    342.jpg
    118.8 KB · Views: 1,170
  • 341.jpg
    341.jpg
    120.9 KB · Views: 1,190
  • 340.jpg
    340.jpg
    116.5 KB · Views: 1,226

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,478
Reaction score
992

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,866
Reaction score
4,796
EYe2m7EXgAAtD8k


This is the mockup. It says so in the caption :)
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,385

Attachments

  • T10-1(1970).jpg
    T10-1(1970).jpg
    60.4 KB · Views: 78
  • T10-1(1971).jpg
    T10-1(1971).jpg
    207 KB · Views: 75
  • T10-1(1972).jpg
    T10-1(1972).jpg
    79.7 KB · Views: 72
  • T10-2(1971).jpg
    T10-2(1971).jpg
    133.9 KB · Views: 68
  • T10-3 (1971).jpg
    T10-3 (1971).jpg
    84.7 KB · Views: 66
  • T10-3 (1972).jpg
    T10-3 (1972).jpg
    96.4 KB · Views: 65
  • T10-3 INSIDE(1973).jpg
    T10-3 INSIDE(1973).jpg
    138.5 KB · Views: 66
  • T10-4.jpg
    T10-4.jpg
    95.2 KB · Views: 68
  • T10-5 INSIDE.jpg
    T10-5 INSIDE.jpg
    114.9 KB · Views: 67
  • T10-5.jpg
    T10-5.jpg
    61.7 KB · Views: 73
  • T10-6-1.jpg
    T10-6-1.jpg
    59.2 KB · Views: 73
  • T10-6-2.jpg
    T10-6-2.jpg
    64.8 KB · Views: 72
  • T10-6-2.jpg
    T10-6-2.jpg
    64.8 KB · Views: 66
  • T-10-7 (1973).jpg
    T-10-7 (1973).jpg
    65.5 KB · Views: 64
  • T10-7(1974).jpg
    T10-7(1974).jpg
    62.2 KB · Views: 66

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,385
Hi!
 

Attachments

  • T-10-8 and T-9  .jpg
    T-10-8 and T-9  .jpg
    76.3 KB · Views: 65
  • T-10-10.jpg
    T-10-10.jpg
    75.1 KB · Views: 64
  • T-10-11.jpg
    T-10-11.jpg
    76.2 KB · Views: 66
  • T-10-12(1974).jpg
    T-10-12(1974).jpg
    132.8 KB · Views: 79
  • T-10 1.jpg
    T-10 1.jpg
    122.3 KB · Views: 92
  • T-10 2.jpg
    T-10 2.jpg
    130.3 KB · Views: 105

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,385
Hi!
I think that T-10/1 and T-10-1 are different.
It's difficult to add name T-10/1, T-10/2 to the picture file.
 

Attachments

  • T-10-1, T10-3 and T10-2 wind tunnel test model.jpg
    T-10-1, T10-3 and T10-2 wind tunnel test model.jpg
    131.6 KB · Views: 66
  • T10-1 and T10-2 wind tunnel test model.jpg
    T10-1 and T10-2 wind tunnel test model.jpg
    98.4 KB · Views: 63
  • T-10-1 wind tunnel test model.jpg
    T-10-1 wind tunnel test model.jpg
    97.1 KB · Views: 58
  • 14-1.jpg
    14-1.jpg
    112.4 KB · Views: 79

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,385
Hi! I want to ask these questions.
 

Attachments

  • 7.jpg
    7.jpg
    143 KB · Views: 104

SatinWings

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Jun 12, 2019
Messages
9
Reaction score
26
Hi! I want to ask these questions.
If I had to guess, it seems to be some sort of internal missile stowage (two per side) and two twin-barreled aircraft canons (GSh-23?).
The missile appears to be on some sort of pop-out mount, and their profile and planform views seem to match whatever is on the wings in that drawing. Though I don't know what sort of missile would be that small at that time (compare with the relative sizes of R-60 on the 10/8 design and its gun), unless they were either very short ranged or dumbfire.
Dumbfire might support the idea that the angle callout on the gun wasn't to describe some sort of maintenance but angling for attacking bombers. However this doesn't quite fit well with me, seeing as the aircraft, at least as built, doesn't seem like something made to go after high-flying US bombers. The guns may be angle to reduce the necessary lead, and the missiles may also be some sort of device for very close-in engagements. The section which folds out from the underside may be there to easy loading of ammunition and servicing of the gun.
But it's easy to see the problems with this: firing a gun at a significant angle against the wind usually results in large dispersion and might even cause tumbling (not to mention may not be necessary given the already quite notable angles of attack this aircraft is known to achieve). A dedicated internal, telescoping mount for a single weapon system adds a lot of weight for something that could probably just be chucked onto an underwing pylon (or better yet, just replace them with a larger missile that could engage at greater ranges and carry a larger, more lethal warhead). This is probably why we only see this on a single design, before the others revert back to a single offset cannon and wing- or body-mounted missiles.
 

Cannonfodder43

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
30
Reaction score
61
Hi! I want to ask these questions.
It might be the PPU-27 moving gun installation.
PPU-27 - moving gun installation in the same layout volume as the VPU-687, with the gun being steerable through +5 ° in the horizontal plane and 0-15° in the vertical plane, upwards from the axis of the aircraft, with an ammunition load of 150 cartridges.

DEVELOPMENT OF SU
Part of the tests between the VPU-687 – built-in fixed gun installation or a flexible mount based on theoretical studies that showed great benefits to such a system in dogfights.

In the end aerodynamic concerns and the lack of space for suitable servo motors had the idea shelved.
 

Nagavkina

ACCESS: Restricted
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Messages
6
Reaction score
3
Hi everyone! Any help?
For what purpose?

The book you need is this:

"Su-27 Fighter: Beginning of Story" by Ildar Bedretdinov et al.

It has full details and drawings of every variant studied up to the T-10 prototype in exhaustive detail. The second volume (not out in English yet) covers the rest of the story.
There is an English version of 'Su-27 Fighter... '

by designers and constructors of the aircraft. It is possible to buy and it is cheaper thant the Gordon's book and has more details!
 

overscan (PaulMM)

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
12,866
Reaction score
4,796
Like I said the first volume was released in English. It isn''t easy to get hold of though. I only have a copy thanks to @flateric :)
 

Similar threads

Top