stealth blimp

[sublight]

Where are the stealth blimp threads?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_Blimp

 

[cluttonfred]

They're there, but they are very difficult to detect. ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[sublight]

I did a search for "blimp" and didn't see much. With so many sightings over the years, I would have thought there to be a lively discussion of it here....

 

[flateric]

Mole means that they are 'there' flying over waist areas of CONUS, blimps still were not at the SPF
what we have is a couple or two Lockheed patents, that could be a clue that they were in someone's mind

 

[sublight]

SPF?

 

[flateric]

secret projects forum

 

[sublight]

So, I am not going to claim "conspiracy" but its odd that it isn't being discussed here. Its just downright amazing that something so incredibly huge has managed to elude a good photograph even when people have seen it in the daylight. Some residents of Stephehville estimated this thing was a mile long. It probably wasn't, but its got to be at least as big as the sears tower or some other mammoth buildings.

 

[LowObservable]

How can they tell? The Sears Tower is nowhere near Stephensville.

Seriously, no conspiracy here. Just not a lot of the kind of evidence that the forum deals in.

 

[sublight]

This is the "Secret projects" forum isn't it? So wouldn't it be plausible that since its a classified program there is going to be little evidence of its existence? If you want to do long term on station surveillance, nothing beats the endurance of an LTA vehicle (aka BLIMP). If you want to go over 100k feet, you need a LOT of lift. You need 10x the lift at 70k feet than you do at sea level. So it seems logical that some sort of long endurance high altitude surveillance platform would be ridiculously huge, if not INSANELY huge.

 

[sublight]

Exhibit a:
https://www.afresearch.org/skins/rims/q_mod_be0e99f3-fc56-4ccb-8dfe-670c0822a153/q_act_downloadpaper/q_obj_fb18b894-05e3-4369-b1a7-409abfc63dd3/display.aspx?rs=enginespage

;D

 

[Orionblamblam]

With so many sightings over the years....

Most of the "sightings" are unverified hearsay, little to no better than Aurora and UFO sightings.

The reason why there's little discussion of blimps, stealth or otherwise, here is because there has been relatively very little design work done on LTAs in the past sixty years. And a "Stealth" blimp would, by its very nature, be classified. And while some peopel here may have access to classified info, the chances of them spilling the beans here, and gettign their asses in legal trouble for doing so, are few.

Personally I would ahve loved to have seen the DARPA Walrus go ahead. But it didn't. So, there ya go.

 

[sublight]

I'm not asking anybody to go to jail. I was just hoping to raise awareness around here so more people could keep their eyes peeled....
And as to the "hearsay", if you read the links off of the wiki page, you'll find a lot of witnesses are policeman and pilots, as well as the former Arizona governor himself....

 

[Orionblamblam]

you'll find a lot of witnesses are policeman and pilots, as well as the former Arizona governor himself....

Same sort of people report UFO's of all kinds. Just because you're in a respectable career doesn't mean you won't see something that you won't understand. And that's just not enough to gain respectability for the *vehicle*.

 

[quellish]

I'm not asking anybody to go to jail. I was just hoping to raise awareness around here so more people could keep their eyes peeled....
And as to the "hearsay", if you read the links off of the wiki page, you'll find a lot of witnesses are policeman and pilots, as well as the former Arizona governor himself....

Eyewitness accounts are not very useful, period.

As for a "stealth blimp".... I can't say I can see what it would be useful for, or wether it would be a problem worth solving. A gas envelope is not an easy thing to hide to IR, and whatever sensor you were carrying would be difficult to make LO. Most of the military blimp programs I have seen have put a large radar in the envelope, which is not VLO at all.

Historically, the Navy has had the most interest in blimps. I really could not tell you what they might want one for now, or even 20 years ago.

 

[sublight]

As for a "stealth blimp".... I can't say I can see what it would be useful for, or whether it would be a problem worth solving.

Read the pdf linked above from the Air force. They really want one. Maybe the current one belongs to the NRO?

 

[sublight]

Same sort of people report UFO's of all kinds. Just because you're in a respectable career doesn't mean you won't see something that you won't understand. And that's just not enough to gain respectability for the *vehicle*.

HOWEVER, if you have lots of people, at different times, at different locations all saying they saw something triangular and extremely huge, then you have a statistical anomaly that differs vastly from the average "flying saucer/ufo" report. Couple this with Lockheed martins 1980's proposal for a "stealth blimp" and the possibility of this platform being currently operational goes up exponentially.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Your PDF is a degree thesis by an individual air force captain. It doesn't mention stealth. It is about analysing the possibility of using high altitude airships as cheap alternatives to satellites. Several of the programs mentioned in it are cancelled already e.g. HAA

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/haa.htm

 

[Michel Van]

HOWEVER, if you have lots of people, at different times, at different locations all saying they saw something triangular and extremely huge

that i saw in sky of Belgium back in 1989 and 1990

it fly very slow and silend true sky.
a blimp in shape of wing would explane alot
But, if this a U.S. Top secret craft, why do a "Airshow" over Belgium. ?

 

[sublight]

that i saw in sky of Belgium back in 1989 and 1990

it fly very slow and silent true sky.
a blimp in shape of wing would explain a lot
But, if this a U.S. Top secret craft, why do a "Airshow" over Belgium. ?

I can only guess that having a defense budget of more than all the other nations combined, we're bound to have multiple extremely exotic craft operated by a multitude of agencies.
Additionally, I believe the American "ufo nut" phenomenon certainly helps an incredible amount in keeping programs classified. Imagine if you built something weird that flies, put lights on it, painted it black, then flew it at night where more than a few people saw it.
Those people would report it. The reports would end up in some file cabinet somewhere and nobody would ever launch a serious investigation. Black programs literally have a "free pass" because of this phenomenon. However, once 10 megapixel high dynamic range sensors end up in all mobile phones as well as cheap thermal sensors, the party will be coming to a close....

 

[sublight]

Your PDF is a degree thesis by an individual air force captain. It doesn't mention stealth. It is about analyzing the possibility of using high altitude airships as cheap alternatives to satellites. Several of the programs mentioned in it are canceled already e.g. HAA

Yet they just announced this one: http://www.latimes.com/la-na-spyblimp13-2009mar13,0,848237.story

I interpret the air force captains thesis as being based on some "other agency" platform he had first hand working knowledge of during his duties and not something he dreamt up all by himself. He sure does have a lot of interesting info for a guy who doesn't have an extensive research background.

 

[Orionblamblam]

HOWEVER, if you have lots of people, at different times, at different locations all saying they saw something triangular and extremely huge...

ERRRRR. Sorry, bad logic. Judging size of unknown objects hanging up in the sky, with *no* scale references, is essentially imposisble for the average person. Remember the "triangle" over, IIRC, Phoenix that turned out to be a bunch of flares.

Couple this with Lockheed martins 1980's proposal for a "stealth blimp" and the possibility of this platform being currently operational goes up exponentially.

Perhaps. Goes up from 0.001% probability to perhaps 0.01%. Woo.



[/quote]

 

[sublight]

ERRRRR. Sorry, bad logic. Judging size of unknown objects hanging up in the sky, with *no* scale references, is essentially imposisble for the average person. Remember the "triangle" over, IIRC, Phoenix that turned out to be a bunch of flares.

Perhaps. Goes up from 0.001% probability to perhaps 0.01%. Woo.

If you take the time to read a significant amount of the sources, you will see a majority of the people that saw "it" in Arizona remarked that a HUGE triangular shaped object blotted out the stars overhead as it passed by. The governor was a former air force pilot and said the same thing: http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/11/09/simington.ufocommentary/index.html

"Lights of varying descriptions were seen by thousands of people between 19:30 and 22:30 MST, in a space of about 300 miles, from the Nevada line, through Phoenix, to the edge of Tucson."
Must have been pretty awesome long burning flares with wings to travel clear across an entire state....

 

[Orionblamblam]

If you take the time to read a significant amount of the sources, you will see a majority of the people that saw "it" in Arizona remarked that a HUGE triangular shaped object blotted out the stars overhead as it passed by.

If it's the same one, the one I'm thinking of was replicated with an actual experiment. Some researchers took the video tape of the event showing the lights winking out in sequence, went to the location where it was filmed (someones back deck, IIRC), and examined the skyline. At night, when the video was shot, you coudl see the lights of the city below and the lights of the UFO above; then they started to wink out. The sky was black. But in daytime, the horizon was dominated by mountains. Ovarlayign the mountains from day onto the night video, the flares winked out as they "set" behind the mountain, over the Air Force testing range beyond.

If you look up into the night sky and see bright lights, such as those of an aircraft at relatively low altitude, the much dimmer stars can seem to fade out around it.


And if it's not the same incident... how do they know it was "huge"? How far away were they from it, and how did they judge?

 

[Orionblamblam]

But, if this a U.S. Top secret craft, why do a "Airshow" over Belgium. ?

Someone with money, free time and a sense of humor.

Making non-spherical, low-pressure "balloons" is easy, lots of people do it. Hooking up lights to the underside would be relatively trivial; some eletric motors and RC controls, or even manned controls if the "blimp" is big enough, would also be easy.

What's more likely:
1) The USAF has some super-secret program that they flew over populated, first world regions illuminated with big bright lights
2) Aliens flew a bagrillion lightyears to scope us out with their highly advanced spacecraft, but they forgot to turn off the turn signals
3) Somebody played a practical joke.

Were these photos and descriptions of *unlit* UFOs, I might lend them some measure of credence (note: I've seen a grand total of two UFOs - and I mean that in the strict sense, not the "I dun saw me some space aliens" sense - and one was completely unlit internally, and one of the creepiest damned things I've ever seen). But well-lit UFOs make precisely *no* sense for being advanced technology. They make a *lot* of sense for being a hoax.

 

[quellish]

Brightly lit military aircraft have also, historically, not been very successful in combat. Mostly due to a lack of stealth.

Really though, given the vehicle described, where is the military purpose? What need would it fill, and who would fund the development of it? Given how much it would cost to develop, can you find unaccounted for monies in a DoD line item, or in a contractor's bottom line? Can you account for large amounts of missing helium, or the infrastructure to support a vehicle using large amounts of helium?
For example, if you thought such a vehicle were flying out of DET 3, you could look for helium production at the site, or improvements to roads to support trucking in helium, etc.
On top of that, why would it be in the places where it has supposedly been seen? It is one thing to be seen in the Antelope Valley of California, another to be seen in... Illinois.

 

[Matej]

I must add that I reckon myself as an aviation recognizer in a professional level, but despite this even I am sometimes not sure, what I see on the sky. So what about a normal people, that know at best what is the Airbus. Also when the witness is from the Air Force, this fact generally tells nothing concrete.

And regarding this whole thread - usually I am not against a free discussion, but if the only "evidence" are the doubtful sightings, I cant see any real reason to continue. This is really better to discuss on Abovetopsecret. So please try to keep the high level of this forum. The quellish's post is a good starting point how to achieve this, so lets answer these questions:

Really though, given the vehicle described, where is the military purpose? What need would it fill, and who would fund the development of it? Given how much it would cost to develop, can you find unaccounted for monies in a DoD line item, or in a contractor's bottom line? Can you account for large amounts of missing helium, or the infrastructure to support a vehicle using large amounts of helium?

 

[flateric]

if I'd been Det 3 of the AFFTC commander, with task of testing giant radar blimp, I'd choose slightly different place for testing one, than flying over populated areas (and would have a plenty of)

 

[flateric]

can't resist

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1073548/runaway_blimp_giant_crocodile_attacks_city/

 

[Michel Van]

so I m the only one here, who saw a Black triangle in Sky

it began in November 29, 1989
i drive to my Parents who lived in City of Eupen
the night sky was clear no cloud or moon,
around 18:00 at Town of Henri-Chapelle, i noted several Aircraft lights
that of E-3 Sentry AWACS flying toward Germany
(Henri-Chapelle is 20 km from Merzbruck AFB of NATO AWACS Fleet)
Wat was unusual however, the E-3 Sentry flight very low. as were they dodge for some thing.

i lost the E-3 Sentry out view as turn to Street direction Eupen
as group of Policecars chased toward Henri-Chapelle
in Eupen i see People pointing to sky and more Policecars
at home my Parents were hysterical, they talk about Lights, UFO, Aliens in sky

As i look in Sky i see this 4 Lights in sky, moving very slow in Pedestrian pace
i walk in same direction until the Lights went out, i don't hear engine Noise
but that was on Eupen mainstreet, with allot of noisy traffic
it look like the Triangle used the brightly illumine Mainstreet for Navigation

that "Black triangle" start later a cat&mouse game with Police in village of Balen (west of Eupen)
first switch the Lights back on, then a power full Headlamps that was chased by Police
the police officer describe that a Bright Light move with Pedestrian pace and switch on and off
a men was putting trash out, was frightened to death as his garden was put in daylight by "Black triangle"

that "Black triangle" was part of a Fleet moving from Germany over Eupen, Liege towards Brussels
then turn to west and disappear

Wat my Parents told me make at first no sense, because don't talk not of "Black triangle"
but of bright Light with People behind it
after i show them picture of helicopters, as they see a Puma Helicopter in Night,
my Parents say is look like that, but it make no noise like helicopter

here is intresting theory about the "Black triangle"
that mostly was military Helicopter in Sky
http://gmh.chez-alice.fr/RLT/BUW-RLT-10-2008.pdf

it fits the the description of the "Lights" by my parents
but there two problem with that:
First: why make NATO a Top secret Maneuver at Night ?
second: the "Black triangle" should be Helicopter navigation light
Wat i saw was to wide for a Helicopter and then made NOT noise of a Helicopter
because i know the Naviagion lights on the Eupen Rescue Helicopter

NOTE
Eupen lies in near several Military Air base and Elsenborn military Training ground
back in 1980's were allot of Military E-3 Sentry, jets & Helicopters in Sky
also is a rescue helicopter form Eupen hospital to Aachen University Clinic
that was old Bell and pilot used the brightly illumine Mainstreet for Navigation
But the Bell make such noise in the city, everyone knew there is an emergency in hospital

 

[flateric]

Michel, this is very-very interesting, thanks for sharing your memories
well, there's something there...

 

[Michel Van]

thanks Eric

to make one point clear

Wat i saw was not a UFO or green Aliens from Mars, is was for me a unknown Aircraft !

a group of unknown aircraft accompanied by "silent" helicopter

how people react was interesting
Majority repressed Wat they see and say there "nothing"
other screams: UFO, ALIENS, INVASION
and Minority like me say "that military aircraft"

the Belgian UFO investigation group SOBEPS
(Société Belge d'Etude des Phénomènes Spatiaux.)
made interviews of the 2000 witness (including me)
but the SOBEPS guy ignored all my remakes
about the E-3 Sentry and Wat my Parents saw can be Puma Helicopters
and ask my Parents constantly "tell more of the Black triangles you saw"
they reply "ask our son, he saw that thing from close by"
Wat the guy further ignored...

SOBEPS = Belgian version of Blue Book? ;D

 

[sublight]

The quellish's post is a good starting point how to achieve this, so lets answer these questions:

"Really though, given the vehicle described, where is the military purpose? What need would it fill, and who would fund the development of it? Given how much it would cost to develop, can you find unaccounted for monies in a DoD line item, or in a contractor's bottom line? Can you account for large amounts of missing helium, or the infrastructure to support a vehicle using large amounts of helium?"

Well, there has been a recent helium shortage. Could it be related? http://www.purchasing.com/article/CA6518723.html http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-02-Helium_N.htm (there are many more stories, feel free to google)

I would not know where to chase the money for this thing, which is why I started a lively discussion here.

I think the purpose is obvious. Long term on station surveillance. It fills a role that satellites cant. Sats cant pick up anything under 30mhz because of the ionosphere. This thing could be parked over Tora Bora at 120k ft plus altitude and just "watch and listen" for weeks.

 

[sublight]

Additionally, have you read through this and looked at the FAA radar data? Its rather convincing. http://www.mufon.com/documents/MUFONStephenvilleRadarReport.pdf

 

[Orionblamblam]

Well, there has been a recent helium shortage. Could it be related?

Unlikely. Tne problem is in production of helium, not consumption. Helium is, for all intents and purpsoes, a product of the Texas natural gas industry. From your own link:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-02-Helium_N.htm
The Federal Helium Reserve, located near Amarillo, Texas, distributes another third of the world's helium supply, including 45% of the supply in the United States, said Hans Stuart of the Bureau of Land Management.

In 1996, the government decided it would get out of the helium business and the private sector would step in, Stuart said. The reserve will run out of the gas in 10 years, he added.


Helium as a lift gas probably has just about run its course. Unlike hot air or hydrogen, helium is a rare gas, only getting more rare as the few reserves of it are used up.

I think the purpose is obvious. Long term on station surveillance.

I'm sorry... what surveillance value are the bright glowing lights underneath? This thing is about as useful for surveillance as this "unmarked police car:"

This thing could be parked over Tora Bora at 120k ft plus altitude and just "watch and listen" for weeks.

Yes, it can listen to Al Queda babble on about the bright flashing UFOs.

 

[sublight]

I am sorry you feel the need to respond with such negativity. All craft, stealth and otherwise have lights on them. To poopoo its existence because of lights is kind of silly.

 

[quellish]

The quellish's post is a good starting point how to achieve this, so lets answer these questions:

"Really though, given the vehicle described, where is the military purpose? What need would it fill, and who would fund the development of it? Given how much it would cost to develop, can you find unaccounted for monies in a DoD line item, or in a contractor's bottom line? Can you account for large amounts of missing helium, or the infrastructure to support a vehicle using large amounts of helium?"

Well, there has been a recent helium shortage. Could it be related? http://www.purchasing.com/article/CA6518723.html http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-02-Helium_N.htm (there are many more stories, feel free to google)

I would not know where to chase the money for this thing, which is why I started a lively discussion here.

I think the purpose is obvious. Long term on station surveillance. It fills a role that satellites cant. Sats cant pick up anything under 30mhz because of the ionosphere. This thing could be parked over Tora Bora at 120k ft plus altitude and just "watch and listen" for weeks.

I don't think so. There are any number of existing platforms that perform this job - the question here is wether a lighter than air craft would somehow perform a job better. Then, does it perform that job well enough to justify the development cost, and then would that also justify the unusual configuration.
If you had solid answers to all of the above, then you would start looking for it.

As far as "parking it over Tora Bora", that seems pretty unlikely. First, unless it was forward deployed it would take a long, long time to get there, and would require regular stops. Second, if you are talking about RADINT,COMINT and SIGINT in Tora Bora, 120k altitude would be counterproductive. In that terrain you actually want your collection platform very low.

 

[Michel Van]

I am sorry you feel the need to respond with such negativity. All craft, stealth and otherwise have lights on them. To poopoo its existence because of lights is kind of silly.

yes, you right

the Stealth Blimp is best aswer to my question "wat was that thing"

normaly a Blimp are big round thing that move slow
but in 1950's up to 1970's were several inflatable projects.
like Navy inflatable, ram-jet powered Ox-cart proposal
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2978.msg23982.html#msg23982

so can it be, they build a Blimb in form deltawing as spyplane ?

 

[Orionblamblam]

I am sorry you feel the need to respond with such negativity.

"Negativity" is just another word for "reasoned skepticism."

All craft, stealth and otherwise have lights on them. To poopoo its existence because of lights is kind of silly.

Oh, *of* *course*. How silly of me to not recognize that an important feature of trying to remain invisible is to have Giant Flashing Neon Lights. To get to truly Romulan levels of stealth, though, what these blimps really need is a 1.21 gigawatt sound system blasting out Marilyn Manson tunes. Maybe also towing giant illuminated banners displaying hard-core porn. Then *nobody" would know they're there!

 

[sublight]

Oh, *of* *course*. How silly of me to not recognize that an important feature of trying to remain invisible is to have Giant Flashing Neon Lights. To get to truly Romulan levels of stealth, though, what these blimps really need is a 1.21 gigawatt sound system blasting out Marilyn Manson tunes. Maybe also towing giant illuminated banners displaying hard-core porn. Then *nobody" would know they're there!

Now you aren't engaged in reasonable debate, you are just being ridiculously obtuse if to only satisfy a personal need for abuse. The F-117 has navigation lights, as does the B2 and F-22 so any assertion that they are never turned on is absurd. If your only desire here is to ridicule, wont you please find another thread better suited to your sadistic traits? Thanks!

 

[LowObservable]

What? What did you call me?