StandOff & PGM Weapons

tyrin said:
The MBDA competitor of these is being developed in the UAE under an offset program

18 per Rafale = flight of six Rafales can launch 108

As well as being developed for use in Euro 6th gen fighter IWB
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18 per Rafale means it's a relatively small weapon, though. Not larger than ~500lb Mk80 bomb size
 
tyrin said:
I think Smartcruiser and the larger 1300kg SmartGlider Heavy may also be under development.
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Been very quiet for a long time on them. Obviously the gliding approach has been very much validated by Ukraine....but I always felt that SmartGlider Heavy was a little unambitious as a concept. They should have done a European JSOW. Essentially an LO 'shape' that could be configured for different payloads with modularity baked in.
 
timmymagic said:
Been very quiet for a long time on them. Obviously the gliding approach has been very much validated by Ukraine....but I always felt that SmartGlider Heavy was a little unambitious as a concept. They should have done a European JSOW. Essentially an LO 'shape' that could be configured for different payloads with modularity baked in.
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Lets wait and see because i think it wont be Long before MBDA does just that. It gives them a "free" market
 
TomS said:
SmartGlider and SmartCruiser are roughly SDB-class weapons, 120-150kg.
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So relatively limited in terminal effects. Not the kind of targets you'd drop a JSOW-C or BLU-110 (1000lb bunker buster bomb, the little brother of the BLU-109) on.

But another weapon in the SDB class is good!
 
Banderol cruise missile:

t.me

Cyberspec News

The Ukrainian GUR published information on its website about a new Russian cruise missile called "Banderol", which has become a subject of discussion in recent weeks. According to the hohols, the missile has a range of up to 500 kilometers, a speed of up to 650 km / h, a length of 5 meters...
t.me t.me
 
Scott Kenny said:
But another weapon in the SDB class is good!
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Not really for MBDA...they end up with multiple missile types covering the same target set....and gaps elsewhere as a result...daft really. Thats the French for you...
 
yahya said:
Banderol cruise missile:

t.me

Cyberspec News

The Ukrainian GUR published information on its website about a new Russian cruise missile called "Banderol", which has become a subject of discussion in recent weeks. According to the hohols, the missile has a range of up to 500 kilometers, a speed of up to 650 km / h, a length of 5 meters...
t.me t.me
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Forest Green said:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1921984543805890988
View: https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1921984543805890988
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www.twz.com

New Small Russian Cruise Missile Captured By Ukrainian Intelligence

Lightweight, low cost, and reportedly full of foreign components, Russia's Banderol cruise missile has emerged on the battlefield in Ukraine. Lightweight, low cost, and reportedly full of foreign components, the Banderol missile could put Ukrainian air defenses under even greater strain.
www.twz.com www.twz.com
 
actually, those look finer designed and made than the umpk. Wonder about gliding range, though.
 
It seems a little odd to use an artillery shell as a starting point if you are not pressed for resources. Surely china can build a simple warhead and guidance kit? Artillery shells are built for far higher stresses than a free fall bomb, and while there is no shortage of them, it is not the most efficient use of mass for a UAV. HE content tends be very low compared to aerial munitions.
 
Josh_TN said:
It seems a little odd to use an artillery shell as a starting point if you are not pressed for resources. Surely china can build a simple warhead and guidance kit? Artillery shells are built for far higher stresses than a free fall bomb, and while there is no shortage of them, it is not the most efficient use of mass for a UAV. HE content tends be very low compared to aerial munitions.
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Agreed.

You'd want to use whatever the Chinese designation for BM-21 Grad or another rocket artillery system for an air dropped weapon. Otherwise you're paying for a lot of steel and very little bang.
 
yahya said:
According to sm, Chinese analogue of UMPK for 152 and 155 mm artillery shells, turning them into small cheap glide bombs for launching from drones.

View attachment 770696View attachment 770697View attachment 770698
Source: https://t.me/CyberspecNews/81584
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I like the pressed metal wings,very UMPK-ish,tho the rest of it still seems more JDAM-ish,lacking the one size fits all ability of the UMPK.Just imagine a tyulpan 240mm based version.
Theres no reason why you couldnt fit an off the shelf micro turbojet engine to the back of it to further extend the range as well.

In a way we`ve almost come full circle it seems.
In the first bombing raids by german zeppelins [1914],modern aerial bombs hadnt yet been invented so they used modified large caliber artillery shells that were fitted with fins.
 
Josh_TN said:
It seems a little odd to use an artillery shell as a starting point if you are not pressed for resources. Surely china can build a simple warhead and guidance kit? Artillery shells are built for far higher stresses than a free fall bomb, and while there is no shortage of them, it is not the most efficient use of mass for a UAV. HE content tends be very low compared to aerial munitions.
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Scott Kenny said:
Agreed.

You'd want to use whatever the Chinese designation for BM-21 Grad or another rocket artillery system for an air dropped weapon. Otherwise you're paying for a lot of steel and very little bang.
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But...you get a very cheap, aerodynamic, off the shelf product with a whole range of fuzes and different payloads ready to go...just select the effect you want and strap it on....the shells can be stored by the user in their normal explosive storage areas, with the usual maintenance inspections and the kits stored seperately in other facilities which makes ongoing maintenance a lot easier, particularly if it is better to keep them in a temp/humidity controlled area.

You get good fragmentation as well in its HE form...
 
timmymagic said:
But...you get a very cheap, aerodynamic, off the shelf product with a whole range of fuzes and different payloads ready to go...just select the effect you want and strap it on....the shells can be stored by the user in their normal explosive storage areas, with the usual maintenance inspections and the kits stored seperately in other facilities which makes ongoing maintenance a lot easier, particularly if it is better to keep them in a temp/humidity controlled area.

You get good fragmentation as well in its HE form...
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So use rocket or mortar shells, not cannon shells.

Also, you may have to use special fuzes as the cannon fuzes may use mechanical shear pins for safeties, that take ~9000 gees to break and arm the shell...
 
Scott Kenny said:
So use rocket or mortar shells, not cannon shells.

Also, you may have to use special fuzes as the cannon fuzes may use mechanical shear pins for safeties, that take ~9000 gees to break and arm the shell...
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Remember 155mm gets huge amounts of development funds world wide that near equivalent rocket and mortar shells just don't get (it was one of the arguments in favour of replacing 4.5" on RN ships, and not buying US 5", with TMF 155mm). So future natures, guidance developments, novel payloads are all available or far more readily available as a result. Think of submunitions, sensor deployment. leaflets or even long range deployment of UAV. They're all developed or getting developed for 155mm, not so for 122 rocket, 120mm mortar etc. Or any other calibre outside of larger MLRS rockets like GMLRS-ER.

155mm just opens up far more possibilities...and given production volumes is not going to be significantly more expensive than rocket warheads or mortar warheads. Also gives you a far better hard target capability as well...no need to develop and add a penetration shroud for a 120mm mortar warhead etc.

As for fuzing? We're moving over to electronic fuzing, so utilisation of traditional fuzes could be easily circumvented.

We're rapidly moving to a position where major nations will have the capability of delivering 1,000 155mm shells per day...so in the grand scheme of things its a rounding error...
 
https://www.tiberius.com/sceptre
Kinda like LRLAP but actualy usable. Large shell 1.55m with small warhead (~5.5kg) and using new JP fuel for the ramjet. In theory not so large impact on the barrel than many solutions using sub caliber rounds...

Edit: That said what they are working on in there "Lab" seems actualy more interresting and promising than Spectre.
www.tiberius.com

Tiberius Aerospace Lab

Future Innovation
www.tiberius.com www.tiberius.com
 
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kqcke for you said:
https://www.tiberius.com/sceptre
Kinda like LRLAP but actualy usable. Large shell 1.55m with small warhead (~5.5kg) and using new JP fuel for the ramjet. In theory not so large impact on the barrel than many solutions using sub caliber rounds...

Edit: That said what they are working on in there "Lab" seems actualy more interresting and promising than Spectre.
www.tiberius.com

Tiberius Aerospace Lab

Future Innovation
www.tiberius.com www.tiberius.com
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Captain Kirk's middle name.
 
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TomS said:
More on G70:

www.edrmagazine.eu

IDEX 2025 - Halcon unveils new guided missiles projects - EDR Magazine

Halcon is EDGE's guided missile company. At IDEX 2025, it unveiled new systems that will become part of the group smart systems portfolio.
www.edrmagazine.eu www.edrmagazine.eu

And:

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Thank you! I thought I posted about this already but seems I haven’t.

IMO with a proximity sensor this could be a very competent anti UAS system.

Not to mention a 1kg tandem warhead can take out everything bar MBTs.

Seems they will unveil a 90mm variant called G-90 soon with its S(eeker)-90 guidance package and the S-70 seeker package was shown at MIITE.


1747855392614.png


Cutaway of G-70 seeker

1747855540465.png
 
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tyrin said:
Thank you! I thought I posted about this already but seems I haven’t.

IMO with a proximity sensor this could be a very competent anti UAS system.

Not to mention a 1kg tandem warhead can take out everything bar MBTs.

Seems they will unveil a 90mm variant called G-90 soon with its S(eeker)-90 guidance package and the S-70 seeker package was shown at MIITE.
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I wonder a little at how balanced these designs are. A weapon designed as an RPG replacement but with a flight range of 4km is a bit strange. The self-guided range of 700m is about at the limits of what a small infantry team can observe.
 
TomS said:
I wonder a little at how balanced these designs are. A weapon designed as an RPG replacement but with a flight range of 4km is a bit strange. The self-guided range of 700m is about at the limits of what a small infantry team can observe.
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I’m not sure either, it may be mistranslation or something and maybe the 4km range is for air launches.

Either that or if the missile takes a high angle path and glides down with IMU but I’m still not sure if it would reach that range.

Although the Pike and LIGNEX1 40mm mini missile can reach 2km…

armyrecognition.com

Cost-Effective Firepower: LIG Nex1's 40mm Mini-Missile Offers Versatility for Infantry and Drones at Kadex 2024

Cost-Effective Firepower: LIG Nex1's 40mm Mini-Missile Offers Versatility for Infantry and Drones at Kadex 2024
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
 
timmymagic said:
Remember 155mm gets huge amounts of development funds world wide that near equivalent rocket and mortar shells just don't get (it was one of the arguments in favour of replacing 4.5" on RN ships, and not buying US 5", with TMF 155mm). So future natures, guidance developments, novel payloads are all available or far more readily available as a result. Think of submunitions, sensor deployment. leaflets or even long range deployment of UAV. They're all developed or getting developed for 155mm, not so for 122 rocket, 120mm mortar etc. Or any other calibre outside of larger MLRS rockets like GMLRS-ER.

155mm just opens up far more possibilities...and given production volumes is not going to be significantly more expensive than rocket warheads or mortar warheads. Also gives you a far better hard target capability as well...no need to develop and add a penetration shroud for a 120mm mortar warhead etc.

As for fuzing? We're moving over to electronic fuzing, so utilisation of traditional fuzes could be easily circumvented.

We're rapidly moving to a position where major nations will have the capability of delivering 1,000 155mm shells per day...so in the grand scheme of things its a rounding error...
Click to expand...
Unless you're needing some specialized payload, 120mm mortars or 122mm rockets have a much better boom-to-weight ratio than 155mm.
 
Missed this earlier
kqcke for you said:
https://www.tiberius.com/sceptre
Kinda like LRLAP but actualy usable. Large shell 1.55m with small warhead (~5.5kg) and using new JP fuel for the ramjet. In theory not so large impact on the barrel than many solutions using sub caliber rounds...

Edit: That said what they are working on in there "Lab" seems actualy more interresting and promising than Spectre.
www.tiberius.com

Tiberius Aerospace Lab

Future Innovation
www.tiberius.com www.tiberius.com
Click to expand...
Not totally sold on a mere 5kg of boom in a 155mm shell, but I do like the range!

Edit: the M795 standard HE round has 10.8kg of boom, the old M107 seems to have a ~6.8kg boom.
 
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