spey powered Phantom derivatives

[Archibald]

I don't want to hijack the thread on F-4X and RF-4X...


F-4K and F-4M are well known, they were the spey powered Phantoms for Great Britain.
But Joe Baugher mention others interesting variants
- F-4L which is described as "a number of advanced versions of the Phantom that were proposed to the Navy in 1963-64". The Model 98FOA is shortly describe, but what were the other advanced variants ?
A Phantom with Phoenixs would be something... did the project mention AWG-9 radar ?

There's also the F-4 (HL) with bigger wings. http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4_31.html

Any 3-view of this one ?

 

[TinWing]

I don't want to hijack the thread on F-4X and RF-4X...


F-4K and F-4M are well known, they were the spey powered Phantoms for Great Britain.
But Joe Baugher mention others interesting variants
- F-4L which is described as "a number of advanced versions of the Phantom that were proposed to the Navy in 1963-64". The Model 98FOA is shortly describe, but what were the other advanced variants ?
A Phantom with Phoenixs would be something... did the project mention AWG-9 radar ?

There's also the F-4 (HL) with bigger wings. http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f4_31.html

Any 3-view of this one ?

It sounds as if this is an increased span, fixed wing alternative to the variable geometry F-4 proposal?

 

[Antonio]

I have the drawings and I'll try to post it tomorrow

 

[Sundog]

I know some of those are in the excellent AirTime book on the Phantom, at least the big wing version is.

 

[Antonio]

I know some of those are in the excellent AirTime book on the Phantom, at least the big wing version is.

I'm going to order this book but, in the meantime, I can post this models I found some years ago in the whatifmodelers forum. I'm sorry because I don't know the name of the artist.

 

[Antonio]

Another F-4HL model from the same source

 

[Antonio]

F-4L: In the sixties, MDD offered this version of the Phantom to the USN for operation off of Essex class carriers to replace the F-8. The J-79 engines were to be replaced with afterburning Allison TF-41-A-2 turbofans (license built RR Speys).

Another model from whatifmodelers forum artists

 

[Archibald]

Fabulous! This models are awesome!!!!
Interesting to notice how the British Phantoms gave birth to their own family of derivatives...
Interestingly, the spey Phantom was considered for small carriers (Essex, British carriers... I'm suprise the french navy didn't considered the aircraft for the foch and clemenceau )

 

[Akaikaze]

Here's a quick question: Would any of these proposals actually make the Spey Phantom faster? ??? Speed was not one of it's strong points.

 

[TinWing]

Here's a quick question: Would any of these proposals actually make the Spey Phantom faster? ??? Speed was not one of it's strong points.

Don't let the F-4X thread mislead you about the actual threat environment that the F-4 Phantom actually faced in the 1960s. High speed performance at high altitudes was largely irrelevent. The Spey powered Phantoms actually featured superior acceleration and superior performance at low altitudes.

 

[Martin H]

that F-4HL was built by me. useing a Matchbox F-4K/M kit and plasti card, i have a 2nd one part done in deep storage as well. the 2nd HL model shown i think was built by a gent called Nigel Bunker.
Cant recall who built the F-4L thou.

The next one im intending on doing is the proper F-4VG the pics and 3 views that do the rounds on the web with an F-14 wing are wrong. its compleatly differnt.

 

[Graeme65]

The HL looks an interesting variant. I would assume that the larger wing (43ft span opposed to 38ft) together with the slightly lower sweep (40 deg opposed to 45 deg) would lower the landing speed of the aircraft by a significant amount.

I was wondering if this could be sufficient to make the F4 more viable for the smaller British carriers. Perhaps higher all up weights from Eagle and Ark. F4s cross decked with Hermes I believe but only with fumes rather than a fuel load on-board. I wonder if an acceptable payload would ever have been possible.

The larger wing should improve the manoeuvrability of the aircraft but would it and the 14 inch longer fuselage involve alterations that would have cured the base drag issues of the Spey installation and allow the aircraft/engine combination to achieve its full potential.

 

[Bruno Anthony]

Some AvWeek articles on the UK Phantoms. Mostly F-4K.

 

[zen]

Iterate again, transparency thermal limit to Mach 1.8 on ALL F4s. Go above and it's a one flight and replace matter.
Hence in service, tendency for F4 to stay below Mach 1.8.....and some pilots getting a stern reprimand if they exceeded it.