last picture of Starship 35 before lost of data
Gr_uGg4WAAAgKFM
 
That was a strange sobering flight...

Despite all the emphasis and neatly combined words mashed in every second that anchor girl spoke, we were given to see a deserted control room surrounded by what look like a disorganized crew. Some seen pacing in round across the windows wall to attract attention and be seen on the feed, other bright flashing controller screens for a picture...
Not a single security guard or senior staff to put some order into that.
All that for a failed suborbital flight, a little over a year after more successful attempts.

Sobering.

Nobody has yet reached space walking backwards.

Let's hope no one was hurt by the shower of debrits
 
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That was a beautiful launch, and while a controlled reentry would've been great to see, I look forward to the next flight.

Edit: Musk believes the next three flights will come at a faster pace, roughly every three to four weeks: View: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1927531406017601915?s=46


@TomcatViP why do you say ‘walking backwards’? When I read that, what comes to mind for me is someone having successfully built a fully reusable vehicle before. No one has. When I look at Starship development, I think about how airliners are developed, and the hundreds of test flights a new design will undergo before manufacturers make it available for service. That SpaceX is able to expend rockets to learn, instead of having to rely on ground testing and simulations alone, is a good thing. Vehicle losses would be a serious problem if the company were dependent on them to be solvent, if they were hideously expensive, or if SpaceX wasn’t learning anything - but none of those are true. Based on what an operational Starship saves them for future Starlink deployments versus continuing to launch them all via F9, it would be worth SpaceX spending upwards of a hundred billion dollars to make Starship work. We’ve got a long way to go before the company hits that mark.
 
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That was a strange sobering flight...

Despite all the emphasis and neatly combined words mashed in every second that anchor girl spoke, we were given to see a deserted control room surrounded by what look like a disorganized crew. Some seen pacing in round across the windows wall to attract attention and be seen on the feed, other bright flashing controller screens for a picture...
Not a single security guard or senior staff to put some order into that.
All that for a failed suborbital flight, a little over a year after more successful attempts.

Sobering.

Nobody has yet reached space walking backwards.

Let's hope no one was hurt by the shower of debrits
Who cares about a deserted control room, does how many people sitting or standing really matter?

Given what they were testing the end result was expected. The current versions of booster and starship being flown are about to be replaced so I can understand why they decided to push the envelope with this flight. Was a shame the payload door didn't open and I am hoping we get to see some footage of the booster crashing. Starship was close enough to ground that the debris will have almost certainly landed within the expected area.

So IMO no walking backwards, lessons learned with some already incorporated into the next iterations.
 
That was a strange sobering flight...

Despite all the emphasis and neatly combined words mashed in every second that anchor girl spoke, we were given to see a deserted control room
Not deserted. Just doesn't require a lot people. there isn't much to monitor or control.

surrounded by what look like a disorganized crew.
just workers watching the launch
 
The Space Bucket has just put out a video about the latest flight-test:


After just over 80 days since the last flight test, this afternoon Starship lifted off for flight nine, and as usual, it was eventful. Unlike Flights 7 and 8, this time around the upper stage successfully made it past engine cutoff, however, propellant leaks within the vehicle led to a loss of attitude control causing an uncontrolled reentry.
In addition, we watched the first reused super heavy booster complete a controlled hot staging and higher angle of attack return before it exploded during engine ignition on the final landing burn.https://www.youtube.com/redirect?ev...&q=https://x.com/rmartinezvlzqz&v=EU9fiHGY4UU
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:34 - Flight 9
 
Hi @BlueAbyssal,

I see that @Michel Van and other responded for me (see also @edwest4 reply above).

Regarding SpaceX strategy to blow and iterate, as I have expressed earlier, my opinion is that not everything needs to be blown up and put though testing at full scale.
For example, the disadvantage of a RUD is that it erases any quality or design problem not identified as the major factor.

Best,
TViP
 
Hi @BlueAbyssal,

I see that @Michel Van and other responded for me (see also @edwest4 reply above).

Regarding SpaceX strategy to blow and iterate, as I have expressed earlier, my opinion is that not everything needs to be blown up and put though testing at full scale.
For example, the disadvantage of a RUD is that it erases any quality or design problem not identified as the major factor.

Best,
TViP
Is there a cheaper way to simulate a full-scale upper stage in a weightless vacuum, with as much fidelity as a full-scale flight test? (I'm 100% confident they've run numerous computer simulations.)
 
That was what I was thinking too as well Sferrin, it would save all those rockets being wasted by getting blown up as we saw today.
 
Regarding SpaceX strategy to blow and iterate, as I have expressed earlier, my opinion is that not everything needs to be blown up and put though testing at full scale.
Blowing it up isn’t the point; but reality has shown us that full-scale testing is the only way to discover what failure modes appear with complete vehicles. Component testing and simulations simply cannot do that. They are valuable too, but they’re no replacement for full testing. The shift to testing more like the aviation world will be a painful one, especially for anyone for whom failure is not an option, but spaceflight will be healthier once that transition is done.
For example, the disadvantage of a RUD is that it erases any quality or design problem not identified as the major factor.
Not necessarily. While not perfect, every stage is heavily instrumented and festooned with cameras, so there’s a lot of data that SpaceX gets that isn’t exposed to the public.
 
@BlueAbyssal : I am not saying that all they do is wrong or illogical. Blowing up things is certainly natural when science is limited, such as with rocket engine development.
But it is more than a year they are facing quality issues that are mostly not related with their engines. Mashing the throttle and looking away is certainly not the best way to tackle this.

Notice that many startups faces/have faced a similar problem. And sadly some rush[ed] into their anhiliation exactly that way.
 
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That was what I was thinking too as well Sferrin, it would save all those rockets being wasted by getting blown up as we saw today.
It was a rhetorical question. At some point you have to go fly. Naval gazing only gets you so far.
 
Regarding SpaceX strategy to blow and iterate, as I have expressed earlier, my opinion is that not everything needs to be blown up and put though testing at full scale.
Yes, it does when comes down to fluid and structural dynamics. There is no way of doing this sub scale. Can't make smaller engines, can't have smaller tanks, can't have smaller fluid lines, etc. They will not react the same way as full scale.
 
Is there a cheaper way to simulate a full-scale upper stage in a weightless vacuum, with as much fidelity as a full-scale flight test? (I'm 100% confident they've run numerous computer simulations.)
there is no way to simulate long term (> 30 seconds) weightlessness and much less on a large body. There is no way to fire an upper stage in vacuum on earth. 100k feet the max simulated altitude plus Starship is too big.

SpaceX is doing the cheapest way. Real conditions with real hardware. Their hardware isn't that expensive.
 
This was one reason I suggested that Lunar bases also have rocket test stands...lots of free vacuum there.

People have this idea you need to have a perfect RLV right out of the box to really open up the universe. You open yourself up to big setbacks with that approach--set-backs that knock the stuffing out of your workers who need morale boosts.

Large Hypersonic boilerplates--using expendable Starships to get facilities on the Moon to do work/tests we can't do here.

Having good infrastructure in space has to come first. A gee-whiz RLV might be the LAST thing to come from in-space industry--and it is time folks understood that.

Last time I checked--Napier's bones didn't make a jump to a Pentium 4 all in one go
 
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This was one reason I suggested that Lunar bases also have rocket test stands...lots of free vacuum there.

People have this idea you need to have a perfect RLV right out of the box to really open up the universe. You open yourself up to big setbacks with that approach--set-backs that knock the stuffing out of your workers who need morale boosts.

Large Hypersonic boilerplates--using expendable Starships to get facilities on the Moon to do work/tests we can't do here.

Having good infrastructure in space has to come first. A gee-whiz RLV might be the LAST thing to come from in-space industry--and it is time folks understood that.

Last time I checked--Napier's bones didn't make a jump to a Pentium 4 all in one go
Nope. Every point is wrong. Cheap transportation has to come first. That has been proven over and over. It has been past the time that you learn that. You still haven't learned from history and think spaceflight is special and has different rules (or should have special rules). You keep repeat the same nonsense and don't listen to others when they have proven you wrong, much like a moon hoaxer.

Rocket test stands on the moon are non starters unless there is cheap transportation.
Good infrastrastructure doesn't happen on unless there is cheap transportation.

Progress and expansion only happens when there is cheap transportation
Worldwide internet is only happening because of cheaper transportation.
Worldwide overnight delivery didn't exist until cheaper transportation (and the infrastructure was already there). It wasn't the infrastructure that made it happen. Same with airliner travel for the masses.

Pentium 4 wasn't the breakthrough in PCs, another analogy that doesn't work.

Worker morale is not even an issue.
 
Can someone explain how we went to the Moon? In 19 69? Anybody?

How did a capsule pull a lunar lander out of the Lunar Excursion Module? Anybody?

How about the Command Module staying in orbit while the lander landed on the Moon ?!!!

Followed by lifting off the MOON, docking with the Command Module and then returning to Earth ???

Oh yeah. They knew nothing... nothing... about rocket engines. In 19 69 !!!
 
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Fer cryin' out loud. We went to the moon in 1969. 19 69 !!!

Somehow, fuel pumps worked.

Somehow, vibration was accounted for.

Fer cryin' out loud.

I suggest using Chinese fireworks rockets.
Recall what the NASA budget was at this time. They were almost close to "unlimited money", with governmen willing to sign basically any cheque - providing that NASA would be able to put men on the Moon before Russians would.
 
How did a capsule pull a lunar lander out of the Lunar Excursion Module? Anybody?
What exactly do you not understand here? The orbital module detached from the rocket, rotated, and used its maneuvering engines (small boxes with nozzles at its sides) to firstly dock with the lunar module, and then pull lunar module from the rocket.
How about the Command Module staying in orbit while the lander landed on the Moon ?!!!
Orbital mechanic, dude.

Followed by lifting off the MOON,. docking with the Command Module and then returning to Earth ???
There were humans inside who performed control on each stage of flight.
 
Recall what the NASA budget was at this time. They were almost close to "unlimited money", with governmen willing to sign basically any cheque - providing that NASA would be able to put men on the Moon before Russians would.

Yes, but my point is: WE can't do what they did in 1969 in 2025.

I lived through the so-called "space race." I convinced my mother to buy me books about astronauts and rockets. Meanwhile, the Soviets put the first man and first woman into space. Their capsules were designed to land on the ground as opposed to the ocean. It appears to me that there is a fictional love of computers and simulations and young people who are always presented as brighter and better, or at least as having new ideas which are always better.

So, who got the United States to the Moon? Americans? No. Imported German scientists. The Soviets also got their share after the war.
 
What exactly do you not understand here? The orbital module detached from the rocket, rotated, and used its maneuvering engines (small boxes with nozzles at its sides) to firstly dock with the lunar module, and then pull lunar module from the rocket.

Orbital mechanic, dude.


There were humans inside who performed control on each stage of flight.

Dude,

I understand all that. If it could be done in 1969, why can't SpaceX handle Low-Earth Orbit satellite deployment? Why do their combustion chambers fail? Why the fuel leaks? I have questions for Boeing as well.
 
Yes, but my point is: WE can't do what they did in 1969 in 2025.

I lived through the so-called "space race." I convinced my mother to buy me books about astronauts and rockets. Meanwhile, the Soviets put the first man and first woman into space. Their capsules were designed to land on the ground as opposed to the ocean. It appears to me that there is a fictional love of computers and simulations and young people who are always presented as brighter and better, or at least as having new ideas which are always better.

So, who got the United States to the Moon? Americans? No. Imported German scientists. The Soviets also got their share after the war.

Oh please! The imported German scientists were only an icing on giant cake of American industry. Without their influence, arguably some ideas could be implemented earlier - it was von Braun influence that caused serious delays in "Atlas" development (von Braun was skeptical about the possibility of baloon tank rocket, and his authority was so great, that "Convair" checked and re-checked everyting several times - before realizing, that von Braun have very little idea how to calculate rocket structure, and erred toward overcaution).

The Soviets also got their share after the war.
And by mid-1950s they were all home in Germany, because it became obvious that Soviet engineers far outpassed German wartime knowledge.
 
Oh please! The imported German scientists were only an icing on giant cake of American industry. Without their influence, arguably some ideas could be implemented earlier - it was von Braun influence that caused serious delays in "Atlas" development (von Braun was skeptical about the possibility of baloon tank rocket, and his authority was so great, that "Convair" checked and re-checked everyting several times - before realizing, that von Braun have very little idea how to calculate rocket structure, and erred toward overcaution).


And by mid-1950s they were all home in Germany, because it became obvious that Soviet engineers far outpassed German wartime knowledge.

The usual biased reply. Von Braun was prevented from making some contributions. But just because his name is most widely known does not mean the others should be excluded. Do you know what Walter Dornberger was proposing in the early 1950s? He was a "consultant" to Bell Aircraft.

Oh yeah. The Soviets were much, much smarter than the Americans who kept their Germans. And who kept importing Germans after Operation Paperclip.
 
Oh yeah. The Soviets were much, much smarter than the Americans who kept their Germans. And who kept importing Germans after Operation Paperclip.
The Soviets were more security-oriented, and while they recognized that German scientists might be useful, they weren't essential anymore. Their ideas became less advanced than the ideas of Soviet own engineers.
 
So, who got the United States to the Moon? Americans? No. Imported German scientists. The Soviets also got their share after the war.
Wrong, the Germans had nothing to do with any crew spacecraft (Mercury, Gemini or either Apollo). They had nothing to do with the spacecraft that crashed, orbiter or landed (Ranger, Lunar Orbiter and Surveyor) on the moon. Neither the spy sats or the ICBMs for the military. They didn't do solid motors.
 
Dude,

I understand all that. If it could be done in 1969, why can't SpaceX handle Low-Earth Orbit satellite deployment? Why do their combustion chambers fail? Why the fuel leaks? I have questions for Boeing as well.
Except Space X can do all that?

The Falcon 9 been doing that for the last damn decade?

The last rocket the anywhere near size of the Spaceship is the N1. Last of the German help ones of the Soviets as well.

And that thing outright fail to do anything but kill people.

If wanted SpaceX can shove a fairing ontop of the booster to toss over 200 tons to LEO in greater dimensions then anything tried yet and call it a day. Except that they don't want that for they know doing that is the way to laziness.

You say that you remember the space race

How many failures did the Sat 5 have on its first 8 years of development?

The thing kill 3 astronauts and destroy a pad.

In that time SpaceX has reach orbit velocity, flow around this planet. And landed it's booster 3 of the 5 times, and got the ship to land as well.

All with no deaths as well.

1960s NASA will cheerfully commit multiple atrocities to get similar results.
 
I understand all that. If it could be done in 1969, why can't SpaceX handle Low-Earth Orbit satellite deployment? Why do their combustion chambers fail? Why the fuel leaks?
They can do LOw-Earth Orbit satellite deployment, see Falcon 9.
As for Starship, they are trying to design an inexpensive, heavy lift, reusable vehicle all at once using a hardware rich flight test program with minimal integrated ground tests.

If SpaceX wanted to build an expendable, heavy lift, expensive vehicle with low tolerance for failure, it would have been successful years ago. But we already have one, it is called SLS>

I have questions for Boeing as well.
They mistakenly tried to do things on the cheap.
 
Oh yeah. The Soviets were much, much smarter than the Americans who kept their Germans. And who kept importing Germans after Operation Paperclip.
wrong on every point. And what Germans after Paperclip.

Lost on most is although the Americans passed the Soviets in human spaceflight in 1965/1966, the unmanned program was ahead earlier, most notably spysats in 1960.
 
How many failures did the Sat 5 have on its first 8 years of development?

The Saturn 5 had no launch failures.

The thing kill 3 astronauts and destroy a pad.

The thing that killed the Apollo 1 crew on the pad was a poorly designed and shoddily built Block I Apollo CM built by North American.
 

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