SpaceX (general discussion)


We have Elon excuses here - at least some recognition a mistake was made. Seems the plan for the next launch is
a) bring back a new mount from Florida by ship
b) put some water cooled steel plates below it to keep the damage under control

All right, we shall see whether it works - or not. One thing is sure: residents nearby (beyond Boca Chica went the dust cloud, it was a kin to a mini dust storm) - are not exactly happy about that first launch consequences... neither is the FAA.

But if SpaceX has a plan to do better - then why not ? Will take a few time and money, however. Not sure 2 months is a viable deadline ?
 
The whole launch pad needs re-enforcing NMaude and definitely a new sound-suppression system and a flame trench. I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?
 
I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?

I doubt it was trying to save money as Elon Musk already has squillions, IMO I think it was macho wishful thinking in we don't need a flame-trench, flame deflector and a sound-suppression system. In regards to the Apollo 4 launch which he should've studied he'd realise they'd need all three (Although LC-39A had the flame-trench and flame-deflector it had no sound-suppression system).
oh by the way
Launch Pad 39A after Saturn V maiden launch 1967
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Launch complex after N1 rocket fell on it

To add to this:

you only hear it right at the end of the recording but Cronkite commented on how tiles were falling from the ceiling due to the intense noise and vibrations (He and the CBS team with him probably had to change their underpants after that experience;):D:eek:.
 
I am sure that SpaceX will come back from this learn from their mistakes and modify the launch pad appropriately, I do not want this sort of thing happening again NMaude.
 
Now, with a whole town covered in rocket launch remnants, some residents of South Texas are questioning the impact Starship will have on its surroundings. Even before Starship got off the ground, a group of Rio Grande Valley residents and organizations released a unified brief(opens in new tab) in opposition to SpaceX's activities in the area. They claim SpaceX is "destroying wildlife refuges and sacred lands of the Carrizo Comecrudo Tribe of Texas and are threatening Rio Grande Valley communities with explosion risks."

Because of course they are.
 
The whole launch pad needs re-enforcing NMaude and definitely a new sound-suppression system and a flame trench. I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?
Flame trench not necessary. All they needed was a blast deflector to protect the concrete.

6862616.jpeg
 
Given the somewhat titanic output of this rocket, it's going to need to be a quite robust diverter, trench, or both. Otherwise it will be the next thing SuperHeavy chucks into a minivan.
Ahem:
IMG_0022.jpg

Obviously that wouldn't fit with the current configuration of the launch pad but Elon did say they had a water cooled diverter already under construction but their previous, 31-engine, test fire led them to believe the pad would survive one launch as-is. Obviously they were wrong.
 
The whole launch pad needs re-enforcing NMaude and definitely a new sound-suppression system and a flame trench. I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?
Flame trench not necessary. All they needed was a blast deflector to protect the concrete.

View attachment 698238
S-1B has a thrust of 1,600,000 lbf, Starship is about 10 times that. Gonna need a REALLY robust diverter.
 
The whole launch pad needs re-enforcing NMaude and definitely a new sound-suppression system and a flame trench. I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?
Flame trench not necessary. All they needed was a blast deflector to protect the concrete.

View attachment 698238
S-1B has a thrust of 1,600,000 lbf, Starship is about 10 times that. Gonna need a REALLY robust diverter.
Make it bigger.
 
3 months ago, we started building a massive water-cooled, steel plate to go under the launch mount.

Wasn’t ready in time & we wrongly thought, based on static fire data, that Fondag would make it through 1 launch.

Looks like we can be ready to launch again in 1 to 2 months.

View: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1649523985837686784

All that’s left of the concrete lateral support beam is the rebar! Hopefully, this didn’t gronk the launch mount.

View: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1649537668177354754
 
you only hear it right at the end of the recording but Cronkite commented on how tiles were falling from the ceiling due to the intense noise and vibrations
It instantly became part of Apollo legend and lore. Must have been one hell of a terrific experience. In stark contrast, N1 failure on July 3, 1969 was utterly terrifying - like doomsday.
For my space TL I did a little synthesis of all the testimonies I could find across books and the Internet. The end result reads like apocalypse.

(Mandatory apocalyptic music that makes you feel like Thanos - or Lord Frieza when he destroys the Saiyan planet. Chaos, mayhem and destruction - all around.)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFSK0ogeg4

...

July 3, 1969

Area 110, Baikonur


"Today,... I saw without exaggeration the end of the world, and not in a nightmare but while fully awake and standing right next to it." Lt. Colonel Semen Komarovsky

A 4500 tons pyramid of metal and propellants lifted off the ground.

On a column of flame that had night turned into day, 50 km around.

For a few precious seconds it seemed to do all right.

And then...

It all started when one turbopump among thirty engines detonated. The brutal explosion devastated propellant lines all around, and instantly starved most engines of propellant. Thrust instantly vanished and gravity took over. Sensing trouble ahead the escape system fired, severing the pointy end of the booster; which pulled the unmanned crew capsule away. It made a perfect landing a few kilometers from the unfolding inferno at the launch pad.

As for the lower end of the superbooster... for a fraction of second it seemingly froze midair - only 200 meters above its launch pad. Then the pyramid-shaped beast started tipping over; and it fell back like an enormous asteroid.

Right into its launch gantry: a near pefect bull's eye.

A bone-white fireball erupted. It was followed by a terrible, purple-black mushroom cloud; a nightmare like a weapon of mass destruction. Within a split second the launch area was wrecked with destruction spreading around in concentric circles. One of the 180-meter lightning towers collapsed, down for the count: it ended twisted into a spiral of molten metal. The explosive force also displaced the 145 metre tall service tower from its rail track; it destroyed all special ground equipment. Such was the force of the initial shock, the top two-and-a-half floors of the five-story underground pad support structure collapsed into the flame trenches below; leaving a gapping crater of broken and charred concrete.

That night in Tyuratam, it rained refined oil.

Immense tongues of flames shot upwards under a starry night. Even then... of 4500 tons of propellants, only a mere 15% had detonated. The rest was blown all over the sky, into a rain of petroleum and cold oxygen: droplets that fell for long minutes afterwards. Fifteen percent was still 675 tonnes; which translated as a blast equal to 250 000 kilograms of dynamite: one-quarter of a kiloton: a very small nuclear bomb.

Up to this moment disaster had spread only to the immediate vicinity of the launch tower; yet it was only beginning, and would be felt much farther away: way beyond any safety perimeter. To the men there, light came first; then, seismic waves. All this in eerie silence, as sound was the slower of the lot.

It lasted 15 seconds: the time it took for any sound to reach the closest human beings: 4.5 km away at Area 113. Sound rushed at 330 m per second, yet even in Russia nobody was crazy enough to stand that close from the roaring monster... not since 1960, when 200 poor souls standing even closer had been properly incinerated by a defective ballistic missile. Which, in comparison with the present colossus, was merely an insignificant firecracker.

But the giant rocket did not even lasted these 15 seconds; and thus when the sound hit at least, early rocket thunder gave room to a noise of biblical scale: a defeaning roar like the end of the world. Puzzled soldiers, scientists, engineers, politicans and launch crews watched, still in eerie silence, disaster unfold.

Yet the steppe had already began to rock; and the air was shaking, pulsing.

All across Tyuratam launch area, men froze in shock and horror.

"Something quite improbable was being created all around - the steppe was trembling like a vibration testt jig, thundering, rumbling, whistling, gnashing - all mixed together in some terrible, seemingly unending cacophony."

Apocalypse had came to that desolate corner of Kazakhstan.

Kerosene and oxygen fell from the sky.

Followed by enormous debris of rocket.

1500 kg rocket engines were found one kilometer from the epicenter.

One 400 kg steel tank went flying three miles, landing on the roof of a hangar

Lighter debris landed ten kilometers from the epicenter

And then came the blast.

A thick wave of air spread from the explosion: levelling and flattening everything standing in its path. All over the steppe shockwaves travelling at near supersonic speed hit head-on - and instantly killed - animals and birds alike: leaving thousands of corpses in their wake.

35 kilometer away in Leninsk were the relatives of the men working at Area 110 that horrible night. Even from that distance, they saw the flame and mushroom cloud; the ground shook, windows were smashed. Because of the explosion and also because of paranoid security, they were left with no information about their loved ones.

As far as 50 kilometers from the explosion, doors and windows were smashed out or blown off; the entire space complex had its main gates crooked, equipment thrown all over the place; the massive iron entrance gate to the launch pad was askew. The blast nearly tipped over a 30 000 pounds bus.

As luck would have it there were no death nor even a single injury; which was kind of miraculous considering the scale of devastation. Adding to the humiliation however was most of the important witnesses of the cataclysm having to fly back to Moscow and pull happy faces to welcome Frank Borman. The timing could not have been worse, but they had to endure that profound humiliation the next day, to the very deep end. No surprise the American astronaut found a gloomy mood at the Embassy, even if he had no clue whatsoever about the disaster. Had he guessed the truth, he probably would have had kitten – a large litter of kitten.​
 
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The whole launch pad needs re-enforcing NMaude and definitely a new sound-suppression system and a flame trench. I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?
Flame trench not necessary. All they needed was a blast deflector to protect the concrete.

View attachment 698238

As powerful as the S-IB stage was it was only 1,800,000Lb of thrust whereas the Starship's 33 Raptor engines generated 10 times that level of thrust, a single water-cooled flame-deflector is going to be a tad inadequate;):D.
 
The whole launch pad needs re-enforcing NMaude and definitely a new sound-suppression system and a flame trench. I do wonder why SpaceX never put in these two important systems in the first place, was it to save on money?
Flame trench not necessary. All they needed was a blast deflector to protect the concrete.

View attachment 698238

As powerful as the S-IB stage was it was only 1,800,000Lb of thrust whereas the Starship's 33 Raptor engines generated 10 times that level of thrust, a single water-cooled flame-deflector is going to be a tad inadequate;):D.

Compare the size of the second one I posted to that under the Saturn I.
 
TheSpaceBucket has put out a new video about SpaceX's plans to change and prevent future launchpad damage:


Just days ago the first launch of Starship marked one of if not the biggest moments in the program's history. However, with this launch now complete, it brings up the question of what is next for Starship and Starbase in particular. A lot of things have changed in a short period of time including damage to important infrastructure at the site, and the use of both Booster 7 and Ship 24, just to name a few.
All this being said, SpaceX is still confident that in just a few months' time they will be ready to launch again. Recently, we have learned more about the company's plan to repair the orbital launch mount and install a unique system to withstand and deflect the power of Super Heavy's 33 Raptor engines. This is especially important after this one issue caused a ripple effect of other complications during the launch.
While SpaceX may have misjudged the impact this initial launch would have on Stage 0, they are ready to begin work and make it better than it was before. Here I will go more in-depth into the company's plans for Stage 0, what improvements have been made to the next Starship test article, the future of this program, and more.
 
How Boeing design there launch Lad for MLLV rocket
the MLLV is heavier as Superheavy/Starship
Source:
Cost Studies of Multipurpose Large Launch Vehicles - Volume III sep 15 1969.
 

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They claim SpaceX is "destroying wildlife refuges

While starting the process of opening up essentially *infinite* territory to be turned into wildlife refuges. The math is in favor of taking a flamethrower followed up by Agent Orange and polonium 210 to the wildlife refuge if you get an interplanetary society out of the deal.

and sacred lands of the Carrizo Comecrudo Tribe of Texas
Don't care. Hokey religions and ancient superstitions are no match for a good space program at your side, kid.
 
How Boeing design there launch Lad for MLLV rocket
the MLLV is heavier as Superheavy/Starship
Source:
Cost Studies of Multipurpose Large Launch Vehicles - Volume III sep 15 1969.

Waaait a minute. Do you have the report related to this picture ?
 
While starting the process of opening up essentially *infinite* territory to be turned into wildlife refuges. The math is in favor of taking a flamethrower followed up by Agent Orange and polonium 210 to the wildlife refuge if you get an interplanetary society out of the deal.

Errr, what?
 
While starting the process of opening up essentially *infinite* territory to be turned into wildlife refuges. The math is in favor of taking a flamethrower followed up by Agent Orange and polonium 210 to the wildlife refuge if you get an interplanetary society out of the deal.

Errr, what?
I guess all those migratory birds can just move to Mars or wherever?
 
Most NOVA design went direct to Sea launch platform like NEXUS

Boeing imagine 1963 for Lunar Nova a combination of assembly building and Launch Silo build from concrete (see pic)
With Nova AT-41 used four Solids rocket motors (each 260" dia) as first stage
with total thrust of 39.15 million lb. or 17758 metric tons !
what Starship made with launch installation with thrust of 16.5 million lb. or 7484 metric tons,
make Boeing idea age not so well...

Source:
Boeing Soild Booster Nova vehicle System Study (U) document D2-22431volume IV 1963.

While starting the process of opening up essentially *infinite* territory to be turned into wildlife refuges. The math is in favor of taking a flamethrower followed up by Agent Orange and polonium 210 to the wildlife refuge if you get an interplanetary society out of the deal.

it sound strange, but wildlife wanders to launch sites and flourish
why ? its restricted area, so no hunters and or other pesky humans, only engineers working inside buildings and at launch sites.
KSC and Starbase became some kind safe haven for wildlife...

Waaait a minute. Do you have the report related to this picture ?
yes all eight volumes as PDF
 

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While starting the process of opening up essentially *infinite* territory to be turned into wildlife refuges. The math is in favor of taking a flamethrower followed up by Agent Orange and polonium 210 to the wildlife refuge if you get an interplanetary society out of the deal.

Errr, what?
I guess all those migratory birds can just move to Mars or wherever?
Eventually, yes. When we terraform Mars and Venus and Luna and Ganymede and Ceres and turn the asteroids and Kuiper Belt into a quadrillion nation-sized artificial habitats... do you think we're going to leave them sterile? No, we're going to make them into replicas of our favorite parts of Earth, complete with oceans and meadows and jungles and forests. Just as we are living in the steliferous era, a tiny bright blip in the vast dark expanse of the history of the universe from 0 to 10^160 years, we are also living in a tiny blip of an era when the universe *isn't* jam-packed with life. Soon enough, thanks to the efforts like those of the Starship team, the solar system will be so full of life and habitats that the Earth itself could be utterly wiped out and population numbers of any species you choose to name would hardly notice the dip.

Or we could listen tot he monsters who would delay that long enough for civilization to inevitably collapse, and forever leave terrestrial life stranded on Earth, doomed to being a failed experiment soon to be extinguished.
 
You underestimate the complexity of the ecosystems we would need to replicate.
You have no idea of the damage we are doing right now.
Earth ecosytems will probably recover from the damage we are inflicting. That might be too late for humanity. If we do survive - for a while - it will be a poorer world.

I do not share your optimism about humanity surviving by colonizing the solar system. Earth is our best bet. Ruin Earth and it's curtains for us. I will not be around to view the end result anyway. Too old.
<edit> We have been down this path before, this will just derail yet another thread.
 
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Whillst there are many unknowns in planetary colonisation, I think it needs to be tried. I've long though Boca Chica was an unfortunate choice of place for the spaceport, the ideal being a disused oil terminal or other already environmentally desolate place. It seems once again that red tape is the enemy of progress, and some less-regulated place might be preferable, but the same red tape (this time in the form of ITAR) stops that from happening too. We need to take care of this planet, as regardless of where we migrate, there is no place like home, but there must be room to reach for the stars as well. without our aspirations, we are, after all, hardly human.
 

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