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SpaceX (general discussion)

Dragon029

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Michel Van

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Boca Chica facilities got a new name :D

E1cUAOxWQAU-4Nf
 

Michel Van

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Another monster crane arrive at Starbase

a Liebherr LR11000 - it's lift 1000 metric tons up to 225 meters and 185 meters sideways

while the LR 11350 aka Frankencrane assembly continue
it's lift 1350 metric tons up to 220 meters and 150 meters sideways

According Liebherr homepage both are use together for heavy lift up to 2350 metric tons
 

Michel Van

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Progress report

The Nosecone Test stand undergoes modification for new test

There is new bottom section of Starship (SN20 or 21?) with large holes, for the new landing legs ?

Preparation for stacking the Launch Tower are going on.

And heavy duty stand under goes reenforcement, for Superheavy transport ?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5xnk0WVWf0
 

Archibald

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Bellcomm - Propulsive Landing of Ballistic Vehicles


I have to post this here because that document is quite amazing - twice, actually. Attached is a clean up variant with the essential contains.

First, look at the publishing date: June 30, 1971 - Elon Musk was born two days before in faraway South Africa, a rather amusing coincidence.

More seriously: it describes something like the Falcon 9 landing booster, including "flaps" not unlike the grid fins.

A glimpse at what might have been had NASA (and, say: Chrysler space division) decided to try and landing Saturn S-IB Falcon 9 style.

In a sense: Musk was barely born, Bellcomm was somewhat already sketching his destiny 40 years down the road. :p:p
 

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Archibald

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I wonder that, too, at times. Nothing prevents Musk from creating an anonymous account at NASAspaceflight (in 2007 as much as today) and start lurking among us, incognito. Although he is probably too busy - then again, he doesn't sleep much either...

And smart as he is, you can guess the date on the document must have not escaped him.
 

Michel Van

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While The launch tower grows as they installed the Segments on each other

I was wondering, Musk say Suborbital launch in June with Superheavy/Starship
can it be that SpaceX goes for SN16 on BN3, to do this test and dump both in ocean, only keep the Test data ?

E2K5fUuXoAQ1bXX
 

Michel Van

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Another competitor goes against SpaceX

ViaSat try another Attempt to stop Starlink
They demand from the US Federal Communication Commission (FCC)
That SpaceX stop launching Starlink satellites other wise ViaSat issue lawsuit against FCC

The satellite internet provider notorious try to stop Starlink several times.
by fabricating nonsensical protests, petitioning the FCC several times,
and now threatening to sue the agency and federal government if they not comply to there demands !

ViaSat use 4 Communication satellites to provide internet on aircraft, the military and under 600,000 US household internet subscribers
Starlink use now 1578 satellites provide internet, for the military and 500,000 Starlink orders by consumers.
Ironic is that ViaSat next Satellite will be launch by a Falcon Heavy...

There Complain
ViaSat FCC request [PDF]

Source:
 

FighterJock

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Another competitor goes against SpaceX

ViaSat try another Attempt to stop Starlink
They demand from the US Federal Communication Commission (FCC)
That SpaceX stop launching Starlink satellites other wise ViaSat issue lawsuit against FCC

The satellite internet provider notorious try to stop Starlink several times.
by fabricating nonsensical protests, petitioning the FCC several times,
and now threatening to sue the agency and federal government if they not comply to there demands !

ViaSat use 4 Communication satellites to provide internet on aircraft, the military and under 600,000 US household internet subscribers
Starlink use now 1578 satellites provide internet, for the military and 500,000 Starlink orders by consumers.
Ironic is that ViaSat next Satellite will be launch by a Falcon Heavy...

There Complain
ViaSat FCC request [PDF]

Source:

I think that it is Sour Grapes on the part of ViaSat trying to take SpaceX to court because it cannot compete, crazy.
 

Michel Van

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Three installed four to go and put a Crane on top
oh by the way the first 12 meter ø tank was moved to Launch site
E2fqR30WQAgK0W6
 

Dragon029

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I was wondering, Musk say Suborbital launch in June with Superheavy/Starship
can it be that SpaceX goes for SN16 on BN3, to do this test and dump both in ocean, only keep the Test data ?
SN16 doesn't have sufficient shielding to fully survive re-entry, and at this stage is likely to be scrapped as they focus on getting the launch infrastructure complete. SN20 is the one destined for BN3 (aka "Booster 2") and is expected to sport a completed heatshield.
Also the orbital launch is NET June 20th, it'll more realistically occur in the August / September time frame, though by July we might see BN3 and/or SN20 begin their individual pressure and static fire tests.
 

Deino

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I was wondering, Musk say Suborbital launch in June with Superheavy/Starship
can it be that SpaceX goes for SN16 on BN3, to do this test and dump both in ocean, only keep the Test data ?
SN16 doesn't have sufficient shielding to fully survive re-entry, and at this stage is likely to be scrapped as they focus on getting the launch infrastructure complete. SN20 is the one destined for BN3 (aka "Booster 2") and is expected to sport a completed heatshield.
Also the orbital launch is NET June 20th, it'll more realistically occur in the August / September time frame, though by July we might see BN3 and/or SN20 begin their individual pressure and static fire tests.


And is there any news if SN15 will fly again?
 

Michel Van

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And is there any news if SN15 will fly again?
it's not in the Scrap metal sector of Starbase
but stands on concrete platform near Trailer park between Productions section and Propellant production

I think SN15 has status protected, in long Tradition of Elon Musk that every first successful in spaceX hardware get on display
like first Falcon stage that landed or Starhopper
 

Flyaway

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And is there any news if SN15 will fly again?
it's not in the Scrap metal sector of Starbase
but stands on concrete platform near Trailer park between Productions section and Propellant production

I think SN15 has status protected, in long Tradition of Elon Musk that every first successful in spaceX hardware get on display
like first Falcon stage that landed or Starhopper
I don’t think it will fly again. What extra data would they gain from a design that’s already outdated. Best to just push onto the next level which is orbital flight with the orbital version that is SN20.
 

kitnut617

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Following this thread, I've got the impression that this Starship would land on another world, stay for a while, then take off again to return to Earth. I imagine there won't be an army of engine techies on hand to service the engine and such, so the engines have to work as advertised when the return trip happens. My question is, when do they plan to do a re-launch test with nothing done to the motors.
 

Dragon029

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And is there any news if SN15 will fly again?
It's been transported to an area (circled below) at the rear of the build site, near where they're building a propellant production facility, and as such it's believed it'll live the rest of its life as an ornament or trophy.
1622298470558.png
Source for the panorama: https://www.easyzoom.com/imageaccess/4f4ec9fa1dc54579933b3faf3a065bdf
My question is, when do they plan to do a re-launch test with nothing done to the motors.
Reusability testing will come after the vehicle has demonstrated that it can reliably reach orbit; there's not much point in refining the design for reusability if those design refinements need to get thrown in the bin in order for it to survive re-entry, or accommodate payload bay features, etc.

Overall I'd expect the first reflight of an orbit-capable Starship to occur probably next year. If SN20 and BN3 launches in (eg) early September then they'll probably be capable of getting another booster and Starship (because BN3 and SN20 are being expended) onto the pad for a launch probably around December.
That second orbital flight could wind up expending another vehicle if SN20 didn't perform ideally, but if they can get permission to at least recover the booster they'll likely try. One of their offshore platforms might possibly reach a limited IOC in time for attempting to land the Starship offshore as well; this would allow them to recover or at least prove landing reliability without having the Starship be at risk of breaking up and dropping debris over land.

In any case however, Starships are fairly cheap to manufacture; they can afford to keep sending Starships to their doom if they encounter further issues; the main priority is just getting systems ready for Artemis HLS and general operational capability.
 

Dragon029

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More Starship-related news:

first 9 engine puck.jpg
Firstly, following the spotting of a new Super Heavy thrust puck (a flat plate that caps the bottom tank bulkhead and is where some central engines are mounted, shown above) with 9 engine mounts, Elon's confirmed that Super Heavy will have 29 Raptors with a move to 32 later this year (so probably 29 on BN3, 32 on BN4 or BN5).

And on the topic of Raptor engines, Elon claims that production is approaching one Raptor every 48 hours, though given Elon's track record it's uncertain if this means that (for example) they're currently producing a Raptor every <72 hours, or whether they're currently at (eg) 1 per week, with the 1 per 48 hours is an optimistic goal they hope to achieve in the coming months.
View: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1398803577380904961


Lastly, the USAF's FY22 RDT&E budget estimates has listed a new USAF Vanguard program called Rocket Cargo; it describes an investigation into the feasibility of using commercial, fully reusable rockets with 100 tonne payloads (so aka Starship) for delivering cargo to locations within an hour, either via landing or high-speed air-drop, and using innovative loadmaster concepts for rapidly loading / unloading cargo. The program isn't investing in vehicle research itself (ie they're not directly contributing to Starship's development), but they are talking about doing some kind of one-way test in FY22; this might just be the USAF asking to gain access to test results from a potential orbital flight test in the near future that involves recovery and a 100 tonne dummy payload.

1622346375234.png
 

kitnut617

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My question is, when do they plan to do a re-launch test with nothing done to the motors.
Reusability testing will come after the vehicle has demonstrated that it can reliably reach orbit; there's not much point in refining the design for reusability if those design refinements need to get thrown in the bin in order for it to survive re-entry, or accommodate payload bay features, etc.

Overall I'd expect the first reflight of an orbit-capable Starship to occur probably next year. If SN20 and BN3 launches in (eg) early September then they'll probably be capable of getting another booster and Starship (because BN3 and SN20 are being expended) onto the pad for a launch probably around December.
That second orbital flight could wind up expending another vehicle if SN20 didn't perform ideally, but if they can get permission to at least recover the booster they'll likely try. One of their offshore platforms might possibly reach a limited IOC in time for attempting to land the Starship offshore as well; this would allow them to recover or at least prove landing reliability without having the Starship be at risk of breaking up and dropping debris over land.

In any case however, Starships are fairly cheap to manufacture; they can afford to keep sending Starships to their doom if they encounter further issues; the main priority is just getting systems ready for Artemis HLS and general operational capability.
Thanks Dragon
 

Archibald

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Lastly, the USAF's FY22 RDT&E budget estimates has listed a new USAF Vanguard program called Rocket Cargo; it describes an investigation into the feasibility of using commercial, fully reusable rockets with 100 tonne payloads (so aka Starship) for delivering cargo to locations within an hour, either via landing or high-speed air-drop, and using innovative loadmaster concepts for rapidly loading / unloading cargo. The program isn't investing in vehicle research itself (ie they're not directly contributing to Starship's development), but they are talking about doing some kind of one-way test in FY22; this might just be the USAF asking to gain access to test results from a potential orbital flight test in the near future that involves recovery and a 100 tonne dummy payload.

My mind is blown

Reaction 1 "bring it, and they will come" - USAF tried that with the Shuttle back in 1972 and ended badly burned 20 years later. Now they want to try again with Starship - and this time it could work.

Reaction 2 "SUS-TAIN" , here we go again (remember that one ?)

Reaction 3 Philip Bono Ithacus

https://flic.kr/p/JiJ3b7 View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/27767566706

One thing is sure:

9.81*350*ln((1400+80)/(160+80) = 6246 m/s

Thus... Starship even without BFR underneath has a delta-v of 6000 m/s + and this is enough for a 7000 miles long ballistic hop; to the other side of the world with the same payload as a C-17, 80 mt. Except 20 times faster: 16000 km per hour instead of 800.

No surprise they want to try it.
 
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Silencer1

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No surprise they want to try it.
not only them
Intercontental Ballistic Cargo Transport
IBCT will be the new market of future
you order something in China and instead wait a month, it will take hours to deliver !
Off topic (please delete if it's didn't suitable here):
I hope, we don't talk about any dangerous "parcels" from either side of the ocean. In Ian McDonald "Luna:New Moon" sci-fi book the ballistic transportation system on the Moon has been unexpectedly used as a weapon - with a great efficiency.
 

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