Soviet unbuilt fighter turbofan projects of the 70s and 80s

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Suggested higher thrust engines for upgraded developments of the Su-27 in the early 1980s

- Variable bypass RD-107 by OKB-36 Kolesov.
- TRDD-83 by OKB-165 Lyulka (possibly an early AL-41 prececessor???)
- AL-35F by OKB-165 Lyulka (14,000kg thrust AL-31 derivative)

Source: Ildar Betredinov, Su-27 Fighter: Birth of a Legend

 

[lancer21]

Not sure if this classes as unbuilt, but in the recent Su-27 by Gordon and Komissarov book there is also mention of initial plans to fit i believe the Su-27M with the R-79 engine, the one used on the Yak-41. I can't recall now if there's mention of the projected thrust figure, but it must have been at least the 15,500kgf of the R-79V, and quite likely the 17,500kgf or more of later versions with normal nozzle.

On the same subject, perhaps there could be added various D-30F projects, it seem actually this engine started as a project for a 11,500 or 12,000 kgf project to fit the projected Su-17-30 among others, then there were versions to fit the T-10 with several thrust level options (was it the D-30F9?), and the D-30F11 for the FSW S-37 but i don't know for sure what is the thrust of this version, and indeed what are the differences compared to the D-30F6 . Also the other competitors for the AL-31 and RD-33, namely R-53, R-57, R-59 and R-67-300 (7500kgf), the first three ranging from iirc 6600 kgf to 8,200kgf for the R-53 to 12,500 or 13,000 kgf for R-57 and R-59, would be of course be very interesting to learn more about the history of each.

 

[F-2]

Not sure if this classes as unbuilt, but in the recent Su-27 by Gordon and Komissarov book there is also mention of initial plans to fit i believe the Su-27M with the R-79 engine, the one used on the Yak-41. I can't recall now if there's mention of the projected thrust figure, but it must have been at least the 15,500kgf of the R-79V, and quite likely the 17,500kgf or more of later versions with normal nozzle.

On the same subject, perhaps there could be added various D-30F projects, it seem actually this engine started as a project for a 11,500 or 12,000 kgf project to fit the projected Su-17-30 among others, then there were versions to fit the T-10 with several thrust level options (was it the D-30F9?), and the D-30F11 for the FSW S-37 but i don't know for sure what is the thrust of this version, and indeed what are the differences compared to the D-30F6 . Also the other competitors for the AL-31 and RD-33, namely R-53, R-57, R-59 and R-67-300 (7500kgf), the first three ranging from iirc 6600 kgf to 8,200kgf for the R-53 to 12,500 or 13,000 kgf for R-57 and R-59, would be of course be very interesting to learn more about the history of each.

You get any more information on the R-79 powered Su-27m? That would have been a monster in terms of thrust to weight. What book exactly?

 

[Keyboard Commando]

Were there ever any proposals for an engine to replace the RD-33 in the later MiG-29s? I seem to remember reading about the MiG-29M/33 on another forum and there was something about an RD-45(?) being planned to replace the original RD-33s.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I think RD-333 and RD-43 were designations used for progressively improved RD-33 versions.

Klimov details MiG-35 options

Alexander Velovich/MOSCOW KLIMOV IS DEVELOPING two thrust-vectoring-engine designs, the RD-133 and the RD-333, for an advanced derivative of the MAPO-MiG MiG-29 Fulcrum, dubbed the MiG-35 (Flight International, 12-19 June). The engine-design bureau says that the RD-133 is based on the RD-33...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[lancer21]

You get any more information on the R-79 powered Su-27m? That would have been a monster in terms of thrust to weight. What book exactly?

It's the recent book on Su-27 by Gordon and Komissarov. Iirc there isn't much more information than what i said above, R-79 was one of the engine options considered at the design stage of the Su-27M.

PS : had a quick look, so the initial engine options in 1982-83 were AL-35F of 14,000 kgf (presumably a developed AL-31F), AL-41F of 18,000 kgf with bidimensional nozzle, R-79-300 of 15,500 kgf, and finally RD-107 variable cycle engine. Later on the 13,000 kgf AL-31FM Izd. 99M was specified (presumably the planned rating), but later in the book this engine is given as 12,800 kgf.

 

[paralay]

The range of engines based on the R-79 is another class of aircraft. A twin-engine C-37 and a single-engine Su-137 attack aircraft. The Su-27 is too small for him. And even more so D-30F6

 

[sferrin]

The range of engines based on the R-79 is another class of aircraft. A twin-engine C-37 and a single-engine Su-137 attack aircraft. The Su-27 is too small for him. And even more so D-30F6

Does the afterburner on the D-30F6 have to be that long? Makes me think it's long to keep the CG of the aircraft where it needs to be like the F110-400 on the Tomcat.

 

[kaiserbill]

As Paralay illustrates, I was under the impression the Al-41 (original) and R79 (or R179-300) were larger, more powerful engines destined to equip whatever the new generation fighter was that followed on from the Su-27, and thus be ready for around the early 1990's.
The thrust, as well as the size similarity, as well as size difference to the Al-31 in Paralays illustration supports this.