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TomcatViP

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I understand that sensors blinding laser inducing no injury to human eyes were developed by a French company. I hope this is what Mme Parly (MoD) is referring to.

Otherwise, 10 years after, it will still be the same crazy rhetoric about firing laser shots among the public...

The only suitable counter drone solutions in those situations are non to low kinetics. Laser firing, HPMW are no more suitable than high rate machine guns when the line of sight is cluttered with innocent people.

But in a country that repeatedly made the headlines with explosive grenades and mortar shots seriously injuring protestor, you never know..
 
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TomcatViP

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Nothing new for the reader here, but a comprehensive summary of the technology involved. Also mentions recent UFO sightings and the probable usage of laser induced plasma.

 

Grey Havoc

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Otherwise, 10 years after, it will still be the same crazy rhetoric about firing laser shots among the public...
I suspect that the current government may be increasingly desperately looking at 'a whiff of grapeshot' type measures as its grip continues to slip.
 

TomcatViP

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Oh, I just think she just got carried off by the demo or how it was sold to her.
It's the French directed energy mafia, often a bunch of nut jobs at the remote corner of the spectrum of officially subsidized weapons programs. Caution is advised.
 

Grey Havoc

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On the other hand, the times, they are 'a changing'. And desperation can have a momentum all of its own.
 

muttbutt

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In fact HELMA is due to become a family of systems, CILAS planning to add to the current HELMA-P the HELMA-XP, the high power version aimed at neutralising not only UAS at longer ranges but also to act against the RAM (Rocket, Artillery, Mortar) threat, which will become available in 2027 according to the company roadmap
vdJgQlG.jpg
 

siegecrossbow

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Surprised that this didn't gain traction in media, not even in China.


1625786962205.png

At the 8:42 mark of the video, there is a blink and you miss it clip of a Chinese naval laser test. The background narration mentioned that new weapons are being tested on PLAN ship Bishen. I assume that this weapon is still under testing and could intercept enemy drones/possibly subsonic cruise missiles. After doing some research I found out that the target drone featured appears to be a s-200 high subsonic target drone. It has a maximum speed of over 700KPH is used by PLAN and PLAGF to simulate cruise missiles/low flying enemy fighters. It appears that they are working on a CIWS system that either complements or replaces the existing gun-based system.
 

TomcatViP

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"In coordination with our partners across the U.S. government, we are vigorously investigating reports of possible unexplained health incidents among the U.S. Embassy Vienna community," the State Department said in their announcement of the investigation obtained by The Hill.

"Any employees who reported a possible UHI received immediate and appropriate attention and care," the statement added.

The New Yorker magazine first reported the Vienna cases that began after President Joe Biden assumed office.



Some believe the mysterious illness is an attack by U.S. adversaries using radio wave weapons.

There have reportedly been more than 130 cases of Havana syndrome, and two occurred in Washington, D.C., near the White House.

 

shin_getter

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Some believe the mysterious illness is an attack by U.S. adversaries using radio wave weapons.

There have reportedly been more than 130 cases of Havana syndrome, and two occurred in Washington, D.C., near the White House.
Tin foil hats needs to be standard issue, or is another metal a better choice?
 

Josh_TN

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Ah, ok. Would make for a lot of in atmosphere travel but they seemed to have accounted for that.
 

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Cordy

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Jet-Powered Coyote Drone Defeats Swarm In Army Tests

Raytheon claims the Army used an unspecified "non-kinetic effector" aboard one of its Coyote drones to take down a swarm of ten hostile UAVs.


Are the Air Force and the Army with its DEWs beginning to move away from costly lasers to high powered microwaves as the more effective system to counter swarms of UAVs?

Presume that HPM will be effective until future UAVs designed with built in Faraday materials that can block almost all electromagnetic waves, nothing simple.
 

TomcatViP

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I am not sure you can farraday cage all your flight sensitive systems at a favorable cost and weight balance.
If then you have up the price and the complexity for your adversary you then have solved a big part of the swarm aspect.
IMOHO Faraday protected drones will never be mainstream among the public. Hence any drone built that way will not benefit from the economy of scale of a large market.
 

Cordy

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I am not sure you can farraday cage all your flight sensitive systems at a favorable cost and weight balance.
If then you have up the price and the complexity for your adversary you then have solved a big part of the swarm aspect.
IMOHO Faraday protected drones will never be mainstream among the public. Hence any drone built that way will not benefit from the economy of scale of a large market.
FWIW did see a report a few years ago that to design in from new not that expensive, to retro-fit would near double the cost, mentioned 90%.
 

Josh_TN

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You can’t faraday cage your drone if it needs or sends radio signals. If it operates purely autonomously it is possible though possibly not practical from a weight and cost perspective.
 

Cordy

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You can’t faraday cage your drone if it needs or sends radio signals. If it operates purely autonomously it is possible though possibly not practical from a weight and cost perspective.
No expert by any means but one possible option might be MXene developed at Drexel University with the claim that you just had to dip cotton/linen cloth in that was very effective in blocking 99.9% of electromagnetic waves, if true don't think it would be that expensive or weighty?

 

TomcatViP

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The right person with the most appropriate experience for such case (to investigate the sonic brigades ):


Also read here
 
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Cordy

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Chris Cavas at the Navy League Sea Air Space 2021 Fort Washington, Maryland tweeted pics of the LM HELIOS laser on a LM model of the Burke Preble DDG-81 (HELIOS 60+kW - CIWS to counter unmanned aerial systems and small boats )

PS Reading recently lasers use Fast Steering Mirrors (FSMs) for targeting, so will i be correct in thinking lasers can only operate in daytime and range will be severely degraded by adverse atmospheric conditions, rain, fog etc, presumably radars do not have the degree of accuracy to hold laser beam on a few square cm's and the necessary seconds to burn through while both target and ship randomly moving in air and on the sea.
 

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Firefinder

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so will i be correct in thinking lasers can only operate in daytime and range will be severely degraded by adverse atmospheric conditions, rain, fog etc, presumably radars do not have the degree of accuracy to hold laser beam on a few square cm's and the necessary seconds to burn through while both target and ship randomly moving in air and on the sea
No not exactly.

There is no techanical reason for it to be daytime limited, lord know we have enough optical gear that is night capable. Like that a well known tech at this point.

Everything I can find on Fast Steering Mirrors basically have them being basically the Turret for the Beam, IE the generator is fix so the light weight mirror spin to do the needed beam aiming, and helps focus it for more range, by flexing in a certain way so the beam gets defocus just right so the atmosphere refocus it. Which is some real techo-wizardly there.

And since the mirrors are so light weight it can correct far faster and more accurate then say the then the gun or CIWS mounts.

With radars, especially the SPY1, have more then enough accuracy to get the beam on proper target. Remember the SPY1 has pencil size beam to scan for and track targets. It has more then enough accuracy to keep the laser on target unless the ship turns past the mounts limits, but thats an issue with all none vertical guided systems.

The cameras in the laser mount mainly there to make positive ID on the target, always important, and fine control. Find control being basically choosing what part of the target you want to fry.

As for the weather...

Not that big of an issue, the targets that this system is design to engage are unable to work in those conditions you mention. While those that can are sufficient large enough to warrent either a proxy fused 5 inch shell, 20-35mm, or a Standard.

Eyeah the Navy has done its homework for this and know how it works.
 

shin_getter

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With radars, especially the SPY1, have more then enough accuracy to get the beam on proper target. Remember the SPY1 has pencil size beam to scan for and track targets. It has more then enough accuracy to keep the laser on target unless the ship turns past the mounts limits, but thats an issue with all none vertical guided systems.

The cameras in the laser mount mainly there to make positive ID on the target, always important, and fine control. Find control being basically choosing what part of the target you want to fry.
I'd be surprised if the designers didn't make use of all the optics for a passive observation, a LIDAR mode and more. I suspect laser equipped ships could do laser based search, track and engage while soft-killing radar stealth ESM/IR AShMs like LRASM long before it gets close. It certainly is no good to leave a emitter unused when the shooting starts, even when the target is outside of vape range.

Some part of me also wonders how much it improves EO/IR missiles performance when used as a luminator.
 

Cordy

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so will i be correct in thinking lasers can only operate in daytime and range will be severely degraded by adverse atmospheric conditions, rain, fog etc, presumably radars do not have the degree of accuracy to hold laser beam on a few square cm's and the necessary seconds to burn through while both target and ship randomly moving in air and on the sea
No not exactly.

There is no techanical reason for it to be daytime limited, lord know we have enough optical gear that is night capable. Like that a well known tech at this point.

Everything I can find on Fast Steering Mirrors basically have them being basically the Turret for the Beam, IE the generator is fix so the light weight mirror spin to do the needed beam aiming, and helps focus it for more range, by flexing in a certain way so the beam gets defocus just right so the atmosphere refocus it. Which is some real techo-wizardly there.

And since the mirrors are so light weight it can correct far faster and more accurate then say the then the gun or CIWS mounts.

With radars, especially the SPY1, have more then enough accuracy to get the beam on proper target. Remember the SPY1 has pencil size beam to scan for and track targets. It has more then enough accuracy to keep the laser on target unless the ship turns past the mounts limits, but thats an issue with all none vertical guided systems.

The cameras in the laser mount mainly there to make positive ID on the target, always important, and fine control. Find control being basically choosing what part of the target you want to fry.

As for the weather...

Not that big of an issue, the targets that this system is design to engage are unable to work in those conditions you mention. While those that can are sufficient large enough to warrent either a proxy fused 5 inch shell, 20-35mm, or a Standard.

Eyeah the Navy has done its homework for this and know how it works.
My understanding
For tracking the target and getting the limited laser power onto an extremely precise point and hold it there for the necessary number of seconds to burn thru the lasers use Fast Steering Mirrors (FSMs) with a beam director. Beam director input taken from high resolution fast frame rate cameras and with controlling software/algorithms to provide the feedback for the mirrors to make the extremely fast and precise movements to keep the laser beam on its point of aim.

Light has a wavelength of 400–700 nanometers (nanometer is one billionth of a meter) so would think any centimeter or even a millimetric range radars would be hopeless for providing the necessary degree of tracking accuracy required to keep the laser beam on the precise point of the target, including the 7.5 to 15 cm S-band SPY-1D, radar required in search mode to acquire drone and transfer the target data to the much more accurate laser beam director.

To operate laser at night wondering if modern IR sensors have the nanometer accuracy required?

PS The US Army ~2015 developmental Extended Area Protection and Survivability Integrated Demonstration, EAPS ID, for C-RAM defense, one option explored used a 50mm cannon, the projectile used a thruster for course correction with tantalum-tungsten alloy liner to form forward propelled penetrators and steel body fragments, projectile controlled from the ground by a CW interferometer radar to give centimeter accuracy, as not needing the extreme accuracy of laser Fast Steering Mirrors system expect much less expensive.

Pic of a Technovative Applications CW interferometer radar, assuming the center array the CW emitter with the surrounding three panel receiving antennas able to enhance angular measurements for its centimeter tracking accuracy.
 

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Firefinder

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Light has a wavelength of 400–700 nanometers (nanometer is one billionth of a meter) so would think any centimeter or even a millimetric range radars would be hopeless for providing the necessary degree of tracking accuracy required to keep the laser beam on the precise point of the target, including the 7.5 to 15 cm S-band SPY-1D, radar required in search mode to acquire drone and transfer the target data to the much more accurate laser beam director.
You are over thinking this.

The Wavelength really has nothing to do with this. That does not determined how big the beam is. The emitter lense does.

And all of the military emitter lense are coming in around centimeter or better sizes. Let I believe the Ponce's laser beam was almost 60 cm diameter and was made up of 9 different beams.

IE its is not a needle size beam, more like a quarter or so size beam. Which while will be slightly less focus, will still heat up an area faster then the needle beam will since it will heat up more area. Which will give the system so more wiggle room on how steady the beam needs to be. So you do not need nanometer accuracy to aim an laser. Actually imagine each couple centimeter thick beam as a bundle of beams all heating in the same area, remember the heating is cumulative so even if you move around a bit you are still heating the area up extremely fast and as such will burn thru in short order. And at that power you just need a millisecond flash to fry optic and thermal sensing components.

Also the bigger emitter allows for better cooling of the Mount systems and mounting of other hardware, like all the cameras the Navy wants so its does not have a repeat of the USS Vincennes screw up of shooting down an Airliner, by mistaking roasting a family's boat that drifted too close. Cause the Radar cant not tell you what you are seeing without either using certain tricks like synthetic aperture, that needs a good bit of space which is limited on ships, or extral information, like IFF. So the navy has figure that since laser's need an optical set up they may as well go full hog by adding cameras and the like so they can easy spot what they are shooting at. Also useful in areas and times there radars are useless due to any number of reasons.

The Navy, hell the military in general, has been messing around with lasers since like the mid 70s. Alot of people pay got payed to just asked these type of questions, while other people got pay to fix it.

They figure that the average Phalanx system has the needed accuracy and reaction speed for any laser that needs about 1.5 seconds hit time to do it work. Said system been in service since the 1970s more or less. And is able to put an unguided 20mm tungsten or DU sabot dart of about 10mm in diameter into a target 2 kilometer away reliably. The modern ones can smack a 40mm grenade out the air within 3 shots.
 

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I should look into LIDAR ASW and Anti-mine warfare developments.

A more far flung idea: I wonder if you can make a supercavitation torpedo that uses LIDAR guidance (assuming noise was what stopped guidance previously), in reverse of what people normally think of naval warfare.
 

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TomcatViP

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The Space Solar Power Incremental Demonstrations and Research Project (SSPIDR): Space Power Beaming, is a series of integrated demonstrations and technology maturation efforts that will address space-based power collection and transmission capabilities, and mature technology critical to building an operational solar power transmission system for providing reliable and logistically agile power for expeditionary forces.

Arachne, the keystone flight experiment in SSPIDR, aims to demonstrate the ability to collect, convert, and beam energy to the ground, collect solar energy using high-efficiency solar photovoltaic cells, then convert it to RF energy using the revolutionary sandwich tile, and beam it to a receiving station on the ground, and rectify and convert the RF energy into usable power for use by U.S. warfighters and end users.
 

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