Shenyang J-8I Finback A

[archipeppe]

Did it is a connection between Ye-152 and the Chinese J-8I?

 

[Archibald]

I've seen mention that Ye-152 and early J-8 were related even before the Internet existed - in a 1987 magasine (I was 5 and already an aviation buff)

So asking the question - where they related, and how did the Chinese got their hands on such a relatively advanced prototype, from the Soviets ?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Probably via ye old Cloak and Dagger.

 

[Prussian Mauser]

Probably via ye old Cloak and Dagger.

The Chinese would've done far better to have obtained Pavel Sukhoi's plans for the contemporary Su-15. They could have skipped building the dead-ended, (and grotesquely tube-like), early J-8I 'Finback' design altogether...

 

[archipeppe]

I've seen mention that Ye-152 and early J-8 were related even before the Internet existed - in a 1987 magasine (I was 5 and already an aviation buff)

So asking the question - where they related, and how did the Chinese got their hands on such a relatively advanced prototype, from the Soviets ?

You're right.

I remember an old Aerospazio Mese (ASM) number, dated back 1985, in which there was an article by Nico Sgarlato (@Nico in SPF) about the J-8I "Finback" development and possible connection with the Ye-150 "Flipper" prototype.

 

[nuuumannn]

I remember an old Aerospazio Mese (ASM) number, dated back 1985, in which there was an article by Nico Sgarlato (@Nico in SPF) about the J-8I "Finback" development and possible connection with the Ye-150 "Flipper" prototype.

It would be interesting to read that as it would be a very difficult thing to verify. The programme that eventually became the J-8 was begun in 1964, but the so-called 'Cultural Revolution' had a significantly detrimental impact on the project (and the whole country!), which meant the project suffered lengthy developmental delays. The first prototype was completed in 1968 and although it superficially resembles the E152, there are significant differences between the two - the J-8 was intended on being twin engined from the outset and its fuselage is longer. In profile the early J-8 models with the intake in the nose does look simply like a stretched MiG-21 or J-7. The J-8 is physically larger than the E152 but lighter. This is a J-8I at the Shanghai Aerospace Enthusiast's Center.

 

[Archibald]

I checked the Mig-21 / J-7 deal. It happened between 1959 and 1962. This is compatible with the Ye-152A flying in July 1959 and crashing in 1965. Also its K-9 & Uragan 5B abandoned in 1962. Some sources says documentation passed to the chinese was airframe only - no radar, missiles, no engines.

Maybe the entire story is an urban legend, however.

Just like Vladimir Illyushin being mistaken for a Vostok cosmonaut... including Gagarin.

 

[datafuser]

A CIA document about the J-8 (then called Hsian A) in November 1979.

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00556A000100460001-5.pdf

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

I think any resemblance is due to shared parent (MiG-21), no evidence of tech transfer for Ye-150 series.

 

[kaiserd]

The similarity of the J-8 to these Soviet designs (apart from to the MIG-21 itself) are actually quite superficial, with the general similarities in configuration both appearing to be inheritance from the MIG-21.
The J-8 appears to have started as an attempt to use early MIG-21 technology and design to create an all-weather interceptor with marginally higher performance but greater utility in that role. The referenced Russian aircraft where intended as rather faster higher performance types using more new technology and design features (engines etc) but ultimately overtaken by the likes of the MIG-25 and the Su-19/21.
Not totally impossible some limited technical design sharing before the USSR/PRC split but no real indication that there was, that general similarity in configuration plus expectation/ perception of that time that any such design seen from China had to be a copy of a non-Chinese design (not necessarily an unreasonable assumption at the time but a bit weird for it to still be “debated”).

 

[Archibald]

Note: I'm not trying to prove anything. Quixotic quests are not my cup of tea.

Instead, I put side by side Ye-152A and J-8I characteristics - once and for all, their weights and dimensions will be together, if people wants to whack their brains...

sources:

Ye-152A > https://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/e/152/a/e152a_e.htm

J-8I > Chinese Aircraft China’s Aviation Industry Since 1951 - Yefim Gordon, Dmitriy Komissarov