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Wasn't LCM an ELSA contender?
It features a wingspan of three metres and carries a 50 kg class payload. Propelled by a turbojet engine, it reaches a speed of approximately 400 km/h and offers a range of up to 500 km.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-its-naval-missile-as-european-strike-weapon/The new version of the naval cruise missile will have a range “well over 1,000 kilometers, comparable to the Tomahawk,” Bourdais said. She said the missile will be used for both naval and land launch.
Good question. They probaly got some space using modern electronics and more advanced actuatorsLCM / MdCN Mk2
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-its-naval-missile-as-european-strike-weapon/
Will they use the new Stratus LO Safran/RR turbojet/fan ?
They'll definitely need a turbofan (not turbojet) to shift a 450-500kg warhead out to Tomahawk range (~1,700km).LCM / MdCN Mk2
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...-its-naval-missile-as-european-strike-weapon/
Will they use the new Stratus LO Safran/RR turbojet/fan ?
In 2017, France and the United Kingdom decided to continue their collaboration on long-range strike missiles and launched the FMAN/FMC program (future anti-ship missile, future cruise missile). It quickly became apparent that their needs diverged, but the commitment to collaboration remained. With Italy joining the program, MBDA was tasked with developing two missiles: a stealth cruise missile (now designated STRATUS LO), in the same vein as the Scalp/Storm Shadow, and a supersonic long-range strike missile primarily intended to replace the Exocet anti-ship missiles (the STRATUS RS). While both types of delivery systems are under development, France has decided to focus on the FMAN/STRATUS RC.
In 2026, rather than replacing its current Scalp-EG missiles with STRATUS LO missiles, it was decided that all French cruise missiles will be modernized to a Mk.2 standard, drastically improving their performance within a controlled timeframe.
MDCN Mk.2: a new generation naval cruise missile
Presented at Eurosatory, the MdCN Mk.2 retains the shape and dimensions of the current MdCN. Internally, however, the missile is very different. Obsolescence has been addressed in the three main components of the missile: the propulsion system at the rear, the warhead in the center, and the navigation and attack system at the front. The French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) has already ordered around one hundred of these missiles, with the Mk.2 expected to replace the current MdCN on MBDA's production lines in the coming years, for delivery to the French Navy in 2030.
In practical terms, the missile should have a longer range and be able to perform more complex evasive maneuvers to bypass enemy defenses. At the DGA (French Directorate General of Armaments) booth, they continue to advertise a range "greater than 1000 km" for this Mk.2, the same official range as the current MdCN. In reality, it is already likely that the MdCN has a range of around 1300 or 1400 km. The Mk.2 could therefore have an operational range approaching 1700 or 1800 km.
The Mk.2's warhead retains the mass and dimensions of the one in the basic MdCN, but "its lethality would be significantly increased, allowing it to engage a wider range of targets." As a reminder, while the Scalp/Storm Shadow carries a tandem BROACH warhead weighing over 400 kg, the MDCN's warhead, similar in its operating principle, has been reduced to 250 kg. By using new explosives, for example, it would be possible to increase the missile's destructive power without increasing the weight of its payload.
Visually, the only notable change to the missile concerns the seeker. As with the basic MdCN, the Mk.2 is expected to retain navigation based on inertial and GNSS guidance, coupled with a topographic mode. The attack phase, for its part, relies on a dual EM (electromagnetic) and IIR (infrared imaging) guidance mode. On the Mk.2, all of these components have been modernized to the latest standards, ensuring more precise navigation and targeting, improved target detection and identification capabilities, and significantly better resistance to decoys and jamming.
We questioned the DGA (French Directorate General of Armaments) about the possibility, in the longer term, of using future variants of the MdCN (Mission Cruise Missile) in new roles, particularly for striking targets of opportunity after a loitering period, or even for anti-ship warfare missions, similar to the latest developments of the American Tomahawk. We were told that, while all possibilities are conceivable in the future, such capabilities require the integration of various data links, notably via SATCOM, which can limit the missile's maneuverability and reduce its electromagnetic stealth. However, in French doctrine, cruise missiles are "fire-and-forget" weapons, allowing the launcher (aircraft, ship, submarine) to evade capture after firing, without having to maintain contact with the weapon. If the DGA is indeed working on long-range strike munitions with "human in the loop", then these are weapons designated as "one way effectors", in other words kamikaze drones.
From naval cruise missile to land-based cruise missile
However, the MdCN Mk.2 has a significant new feature: its ability to be launched from a land-based launcher. Designated MdCT (land-based cruise missile), the missile is integrated into a launcher containing four rounds, positioned on a trailer and towed by a heavy truck.
Currently, the MdCT is being developed using MBDA's own funds, and the company hopes to convince the French armed forces to adopt it. In fact, the manufacturer is working closely with the DGA (French Directorate General of Armaments) to achieve this, with the stated goal of offering a missile that is absolutely identical in its naval and land-based versions, and completely interchangeable between the Sylver A70 VLS launcher on a FREMM frigate and the mobile launcher offered by MBDA. Indeed, the MdCN and the MdCT are the same missile; the designation changes only depending on the launch platform. Thus, even though the DGA has only contracted for the development of the MDCN Mk.2 so far, it already appears essential to have a single munition for multiple uses: this will allow for a higher production rate, simplified inventory management for the armed forces, and a controlled unit price.
Scalp Mk.2: the future cruise missile for the Rafale
It should be noted that many of the improvements planned for the MdCN Mk.2, particularly on the navigation and attack system, will be found, in one form or another, on board the Scalp Mk.2, also expected for 2030. Notified last February, the development of the Scalp Mk.2 is intended to modernize the airborne deep strike capabilities of the Air and Space Force as well as the French Navy for the Rafale M aircraft embarked on the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. Following the deliveries of Scalp and Storm Shadow missiles to Ukraine, production of the basic version was recently restarted, allowing for new export customers and, more importantly, replenishing French forces' stocks. However, while some components of the Scalp-EG remain operationally relevant, they are technically obsolete, complicating their procurement. Therefore, the decision was made to undertake a comprehensive modernization of the missile, resulting in a Scalp Mk.2, following a schedule similar to that of the MdCN Mk.2. This is an excellent way to leverage synergies between the two programs.
The DGA representative we spoke with confirmed this: "There will be a real commonality between the two missiles, the MdCN Mk.2 and the Scalp Mk.2. There will be much more commonality than between the basic Scalp and the current MdCN, in fact, since this time these new variants are being developed simultaneously, and not one after the other." Furthermore, even though the development of the Scalp Mk.2 is being conducted by the DGA in cooperation with the European agency OCCAR, in order to guarantee a certain degree of convergence and compatibility between the new missile and the existing Franco-British Scalp/Storm Shadow missiles, the Scalp Mk.2 will fundamentally be a French missile, allowing for the optimization of joint development with the new variant of the MdCN, which has always been a product of MBDA France.
Considering that the Ukranians apparently like using Storm Shadow for must-hit high value targets, that's certainly a take from the British. One cannot help but wonder if the same people behind the T83 cancellation are behind this too.UK Retires Storm Shadow Citing Ukraine's Experience, $398M Goes to Cheaper Cruise Missiles Built on Ukraine's Technological Developments
https://en.defence-ua.com/industrie...kraines_technological_developments-18991.html
It makes me wonder when the UK security services last did a check on their MPs and Ministers...Considering that the Ukranians apparently like using Storm Shadow for must-hit high value targets, that's certainly a take from the British. One cannot help but wonder if the same people behind the T83 cancellation are behind this too.
There's no magic sauce without a healthy economy.It makes me wonder when the UK security services last did a check on their MPs and Ministers...
There's no magic sauce without a healthy economy.
GCAP got full money, as there was a bossy asian lady behind it (a force of nature). T83 didn't, as the Japanese can build their own ships and don't need UK for that.
Additionally, "retiring SS" likely refers to sending all that remains to Ukraine.
Of course, retiring tactical LACMs while crippling the F-35B fleet for the sake of American gravity nukes is some special sort of madness. But that makes it believably British.
It's a mis-reading of the DIP from a lot of people....
95. Major investments through 2030-35 include:
• Continued investment in Stratus, which will provide the bulk of the UK’s long range strike capability.
• Greater investment to deliver Deep Precision Strike with Germany, developing longrange cruise and hypersonic missiles to bolster NATO’s deterrence and defence.
• Investment in Directed Energy Weapons for land and maritime platforms.
96. Storm Shadow missiles have played a vital role for our Armed Forces. The building ofthese missiles started in the 1990s and they have proved highly effective for conducting operations. Learning the lessons from Ukraine, we are now pivoting to the next generation of low-cost cruise missiles, meaning we will get significantly more missiles at a reduced overall cost. Alongside these types of weapons, Stratus missiles will be the future of the UK’s complex weapons programme, delivering long range strike against complex targets for both the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force, in cooperation with France and Italy.
So what will happen to the Stratus supersonic missile? I would have thought that the UK would have bought some of those as well as the Stratus LO especially for the GCAP/Tempest.
So what will happen to the Stratus supersonic missile? I would have thought that the UK would have bought some of those as well as the Stratus LO especially for the GCAP/Tempest.
Given how the things appear, all of it permanently balances on a brink of cancellation.I would think that would be a good idea timmymagic the UK buying at least some Stratus RS as well as the Stratus LO, it still seems daft to have designed both missiles instead of having one unique missile with both capabilities that would in my view be the better option.
Given how the things appear, all of it permanently balances on a brink of cancellation.
Rather than dream of both, the real reason behind Stratus merger apparently is some necessary degree of (international) political protection for a priority program. Otherwise, even high priority items get abruptly cut.
They are much heavier invested in both scalp and mdcn; they don't need a bay weapon. It makes perfect sense for them to be perfectly content with current state of affairs.I don't think thats the case. FCASW was born out of the exceptionally successful Storm Shadow/SCALP programme so it made sense for UK and France to do the same approach, and hopefully reap the same rewards. To be honest I'm most surprised by the French not going for Stratus LO after Storm Shadow's incredible performance in Ukraine that has clearly validated the subsonic LO approach.
They are much heavier invested in both scalp
Up to 4 launchers per fire control unit, so 16 missiles
Uk originally procured (almost) twice as many SS than France - SCALP.Thats not really the case...the UK procured twice as many....and the UK facilities built 2-3 times as many Storm Shadow/Black Shaheen as the French did SCALP....
They will need more range from a non-LO Rafale though....and Stratus will deliver far more than SCALP-EG will.
Sure MdCN is a related missile...but its volumes produced to date are tiny.
If you believe that the main long range ATG missiles for the Dassault Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, GCAP, whatever comes out of the French next generation fighter program, the RN, Italian and French surface units... weapons that are already ring fenced in the (increasing... FAST) defense budgets of those three countries...Given how the things appear, all of it permanently balances on a brink of cancellation.
Rather than dream of both, the real reason behind Stratus merger apparently is some necessary degree of (international) political protection for a priority program. Otherwise, even high priority items get abruptly cut.
Nothing is ever secure in UK it appears, unless there's a scary Japanese pm.If there´s a future European PGM program that seems secure, that´s the MBDA Stratus.
Here we are with a confirmed replacement program for the T45... Have you actually read the DIP?Nothing is ever secure in UK it appears, unless there's a scary Japanese pm.
T83 was such an obvious cornerstone for the RN, yet here we are now.
Scalp Mk2 MLU is probably cheaper than buying Stratus LO, especially thanks to the shared commonality with MdCN Mk2, which has the advantage of longer range and truck + sub-launched capability over Stratus LO.To be honest I'm most surprised by the French not going for Stratus LO
Type 94 is one hell of a replacement to the 10k destroyer, yes. I frankly doubt, even with decades of advancement, if the result will match even the updated T45.Here we are with a confirmed replacement program for the T45... Have you actually read the DIP?
And in what particular way is the Japanese PM scarier than Giorgia Meloni?
No, while the UK FAL was runing at a much higher rate early on, both ended up procucing roughly the same amount of missiles.Thats not really the case...the UK procured twice as many....and the UK facilities built 2-3 times as many Storm Shadow/Black Shaheen as the French did SCALP....
Plus Scalp Mk2 was available earlier than Stratus LO, which given France's more urgent need to increase its small cruise missile stock may have been another deciding factor.
Is the UK getting Storm Shadow Mk.2 as well?SCALP Mk.2 is available in 2030 according to French docs...
Stratus LO is going on Typhoon in 2030 according to DIP...
Now I suspect Stratus LO is the more likely to slip...but it will be close.
Is the UK getting Storm Shadow Mk.2 as well?